SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

[Ed Oscuro]

Take a look at this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

I need to message the maintainer after opening up a SNES I have here - it's close to one of the boundaries, though not past it.

[Drakon]

Have the lowest and highest serial numbers been established to a point that they can be used to insure a SNES with serial numbers above the lowest serial number and below the highest serial number will be a 1Chip SNES? Also, based on what I have be reading, seems SNES's that were made around 1995 have the 1Chip. Does the Copyright on the bottom of the console say copyright 1995 as well or do all NA SNES's say copyright 1991?

A much easier idea is to buy a snes mini. They're much better looking and all snes mini consoles came with the onechip ppu. Modding a snes mini to add rgb and s-video is very easy. Or you can do my more complicated mod for even better rgb and s-video.

[Seraphic]

Have the lowest and highest serial numbers been established to a point that they can be used to insure a SNES with serial numbers above the lowest serial number and below the highest serial number will be a 1Chip SNES? Also, based on what I have be reading, seems SNES's that were made around 1995 have the 1Chip. Does the Copyright on the bottom of the console say copyright 1995 as well or do all NA SNES's say copyright 1991?

A much easier idea is to buy a snes mini. They're much better looking and all snes mini consoles came with the onechip ppu. Modding a snes mini to add rgb and s-video is very easy. Or you can do my more complicated mod for even better rgb and s-video.

If picked up a set of ACCLAIM DUAL TURBO SNES Controllers (Wireless) with receiver but they only work with the model one SNES.

[RGB32E]

I decided to try RGB modding my second SNES mini and it worked great overall. Here are many pictures. I still prefer the RGB output of my 1-chip system (1CHIP-01), as the modded mini's RGB output is too sharp, as you will see in the pictures below. I have no reason to believe this has anything to do wtih the THS7374, but rather the 1 chip ICs that were used in the mini SNES compared to the full size one chip consoles. I tried the acid test of the FFIII intro and found that on a CRT (PVM-2030) that the vertical bar wasn't visible! However, my PVM take a while to warm up, so it's a little dark. When trying the test again via the XRGB-mini, it was extremely subtle, but still present, virtually invisible. The ghosting interference is still there on the THS mini, but isn't as pronounced as what I recall when modding the SNES mini from the built in BA/rohm encounder. So, the THS buffering is definitely an improvement over using the BA6596F's RGB outputs. Also, I didn't tap RGB from the BA encoder legs, I used the vias right from the 1CHIP IC (see below). This makes for a much cleaner install and shorter signal path.


THS7374 buffered SNES mini on the left, 1CHIP-01 SNES with stock RGB on the right. XRGB-mini in use. Notice the overly sharpened right edges on the modded mini? The picture on the right could be slightly sharper, but not to the level of the modded mini and isn't so soft to be fuzzy.


Where's the wires???


The 0.1uF caps partially anchor the circuit along with a glob of hot glue! Since the only series component between the PPU and encoder is a 0.1uF cap, I figured that was all I needed for the THS. It didn't seem to make sense to tap the signals directly from the built in encoder, and then run them through another set of 0.1uF caps. Composite sync (CSYNC) from the PPU is directly wired to the BA6596F, but thought it would be less hack-ish to buffer it with the THS7374.


Digital audio output might be next? Perhaps it would be better installed in one of my Saturns!

So, aside from finding a 1CHIP-0x SNES, the SNES mini comes close in RGB quality when bypassing the built in encoder with a good amp.

[Seraphic]

I agree that the photo on the right looks better.

Might I ask which 1CHIP PCB would you recommend for the "best" overall picture quality when using RGB (1CHIP 01, 02 or 03 revision)?

[RGB32E]

I agree that the photo on the right looks better.

Might I ask which 1CHIP PCB would you recommend for the "best" overall picture quality when using RGB (1CHIP 01, 02 or 03 revision)?

I have a 1CHIP-01 and -02 and other revisions as well. My favorite is the 1CHIP-01. The -02 has slightly less vertical bar than the -01, but has a slightly noisier picture. That all could be particular to my one chips. However, my -01 is a UN6* (serial number) and not a UN30/31*. See darthcloud's spreadsheet. Note that some UN30* systems are not the -01 revision. My -02 starts with UN32.

[Seraphic]

So best bet for a 1CHIP-01 SNES would be to fine one with a serial number between UN309080246 and UN317828618? Or in your case, between UN602678294 and UN602905390? Also, what about SNES systems with different eject buttons? Some have modeled plastic that say Eject and others have printed text that say Eject. Does that have anything to do with different PCBs / build dates?

[Fudoh]

would somebody please provide a snapshot of that ghosting problem the US 1-CHIP systems have (in parts) ? I haven't seen anything like on my japanese 1-CHIP, so I'm wondering if there are differences in the boards.

[darthcloud]

would somebody please provide a snapshot of that ghosting problem the US 1-CHIP systems have (in parts) ? I haven't seen anything like on my japanese 1-CHIP, so I'm wondering if there are differences in the boards.

I had some but I don't think it's related to my SNES anymore, I noticed I had ghosting with my Wii U over HDMI in SMBU too.

It happen mostly with very bright green zone next to another primary color. I guest my plasma screen doen't like that.

[blizzz]

There's a 1CHIP-02 (or 03) Super Famicom on eBay right now. SN is 25227644, seller is trustworthy. Here's the auction: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Super-Famicom-No ... 0855395393
Good luck if anyone is interested

[RGB32E]

would somebody please provide a snapshot of that ghosting problem the US 1-CHIP systems have (in parts) ? I haven't seen anything like on my japanese 1-CHIP, so I'm wondering if there are differences in the boards.

IIRC, it's easy to see when the sharpness setting is turned up.
1. Set mode to Picture
2. Adjust sharpeness setting to >5
3. Watch SMW title screen

Also, I have a theory as to how to tame the over sharp THS-RGB modded SNES... after the series 75 ohm resistors add 1000pF caps to ground. 1100pF might be too much. I hope to try this in the near future as it could make RGB from the mini very nice!

[Fudoh]

IIRC, it's easy to see when the sharpness setting is turned up.
1. Set mode to Picture
2. Adjust sharpeness setting to >5
3. Watch SMW title screen

thanks! I'll do that and confirm back with a snapshot how present this is on my SFC unit...

[RGB32E]

I tried adding 1000pF to ground to tame the over sharp picture of the mini and it seems to work! Just that it works a little too well - 1000pF is too high of a value to use with this. I used the ground spots near the SNES connector and figure that a different ground point away from the SNES connector would be ideal. I'll have to try a smaller value next!

[NWrain]

I heard that all SNES Mini have 1 Chip-X encoders, but are they 1 Chip 2 or 3?

[darthcloud]

I heard that all SNES Mini have 1 Chip-X encoders, but are they 1 Chip 2 or 3?

1-Chip is a reference to the all-in-one CPU+PPUs chip; 01, 02 & 03 is the revision of the motherboard of regular SFC/SNES with that chip.

SFC jr/SNES2 is a different motherboard and those revision don't apply.

btw I didn't saw any different PQwise between the 1-Chips (01 & 03) I have.

[NWrain]

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

[Seraphic]

There was a Model 1 SNES with 1CHIP-02 PCB on eBay a few days ago for $50.
I thought about picking it up, but decided to sleep on it. However, by the next morning it had sold.

Yesterday I typed 1CHIP-01 into eBay for the hell of it and low and behold a Model 1 SNES with 1CHIP-01 PCB was up for sale.
It was a little bit more then the 02 but decided not to sleep on it this time and picked up it. Should arrive by late this week.

[RGB32E]

Wow! I wonder if all this attention to PCB revs will drive up the price of these systems! I guess enough eBay sellers have been pinged about serial numbers to make this a selling point.

[NWrain]

I have noticed that for Super Famicom and Neo Geo AES, a lot of auctions have a picture of a serial number.

[Overkill]

I have a Euro Pal SNES with 60hz mod, and i allways disliked the picture, so i thing this maybe be a 2 chip, don't know. Meanwhile, i grab a NTSC usa SNES, so i connected it with my cabecube scart RGB cable, and the picture it's much much better than on the SNES pal i have. But this time i can change the color on the TV, i thought that was impossible on RGB sources like SNES, megadrive, etc. So my question is: is this normal?

[kamiboy]

Depends on the TV. All European consumer TV's with RGB SCART input can do that because internally they convert RGB to component format to allow for user control of things like colour.

I believe on some professional monitors you are stuck with picture control limitations if you use the RGB inputs. But take that assumption with a grain of salt. I remember my old PVM 2030 allowed me to change picture controls even when using the RGB input.

[Fudoh]

Got a new one for the database:

S25234986 and it's a japanese 1CHIP-03

and *drummroll* it does *not* exhibit the banding problems seen on other 1CHIP units. I don't have a japanese 1CHIP-02, but I have a japanese 1CHIP-01 and I did a 1:1 comparison with a bunch of titles on which the banding is usually quite obvious. And I see *nothing* on the -03, where it's most apparent on the -01. (Frameister was set to 1080p output with H_SCALER 5 and V_SCALER 6. Sharpness at 0).

Also I tried looking for the ghosting problem which can be found on the US units and I just can't see it. I tried this on my japanese launch model and on both 1CHIP units. Mario World intro sequence with pumped up sharpness. Nothing.

[RGB32E]

Does it output CSYNC (pin3)? Someone mentioned that their 1CHIP-03 removed CSYNC output.

[Fudoh]

I have to find my sync cable. I'll try it tonight. Used an original Nintendo SFC cable this afternoon.

[Fudoh]

Ok, confirmed! The 1CHIP-01 has c-sync available, but the -03 does not. The pin's not connected and the Mini receives no signal (just sound) when using a raw sync cable.

[darthcloud]

Thanks for confirming the absence of CSYNC.

I was probably the one complaining about the ghosting in SMW but I've recently realize it was my plasma fault.

It's doing the same with my WiiU with NSMBU over HDMI, I never played game with so bright color over HDMI before so that's why I never realize it before :S


List updated btw

[Fudoh]

You should see my Sony with the Mario Kart intro. Trails like 10cm long. My TV drops it response rate to about 200ms with green to red transitions.....

[RGB32E]

The ghosting I've mentioned can be seen on a CRT or LCD. I don't have a plasma, but I'd imagine that the artifact mentioned is the plasma specific line bleed.

I'm not sure if the 1CHIP-02 has CSYNC either.... Lets see... Yup, it does have CSYNC output.

[Seraphic]

Another Nintendo SNES 1CHIP-01 up on eBay.

$139.99 or best offer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190796374855

[blizzz]

That sounds way too expensive. You can find Japanese 1CHIP consoles for 100$ less without much problem.