SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

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Fudoh
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Fudoh »

When I bought my first japanese 1CHIP some months ago, it was a real battle and turned out quite expensive. $140 for a lose american 1CHIP is too much though, I agree on that. The last two US 1CHIPs were priced reasonably, I think $60 and $80 or something like that.
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Shining
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Shining »

I get a lot of picture noise from my 1CHIP-01, and in some bright backgrounds i also get what i think you guys refer to as ghosting. Haven't seen any of that bright vertical line in the middle of the picture though. I can take a couple of pics tonight.

Edit: Nevermind. It's god damn impossible to take a picture of it.
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TheShadowRunner
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by TheShadowRunner »

@darthcloud, I sent you a compiled list of serials (via email) for the database, did you get it ok?
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ApolloBoy
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by ApolloBoy »

HylianLink wrote:I've tapped a wire from luma on pin7(multiout) to pin3 on multiout to test and damaged my SNES.
Do you have a PAL SNES? If so, pin 3 is actually 12V.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by ApolloBoy »

Connect pin 7 of the encoder to the multiout then, you don't need any other components.
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blizzz
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by blizzz »

HylianLink wrote:Some games won't sync with my "normal" scart(sync on composite) on my GBS-8220.
The 1CHIP consoles cause minor problems with certain games. For example Pocky & Rocky drops sync a couple of times in the intro on my 1CHIP-02. No problems on a 2-chip console (with the same cables). Does it happen in a lot of games or just a some random few ones?
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by SNES_is_the_Best »

If anyone is interested in learning more about the 1CHIP/Mini, if its the best, or worst SNES revision, I compiled a list of well documented facts for helping them out.

http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 52&t=46303

Hope it helps
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Einzelherz
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Einzelherz »

I don't think we needed more well documented facts regarding people's personal preferences.

But maybe I'm wrong.
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blizzz
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by blizzz »

To put things a bit into perspective:

From SNES_is_the_Best's post
Image

Captured from my 1CHIP-02
Image

I can't see any "shadow ghosting" on my console. I won't deny that the bar in the middle exists, but you need much more extreme screens to see it. Like the opening scene of FF VI. It's very faint and I'm not even sure if you can see it on the screenshot, but it exists.

FF VI original cart (I was too lazy to open my US cart to fit the PCB into my Japanese console without an adapter)
Image

FF VI on a flash cart (Super Everdrive)
Image

Here's the same scene on a flash cart. There is no visible difference between the two bars.
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Pasky
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Pasky »

This guy again (SNES_IS_DA_BEST).

We just had this discussion on neo-geo forums. Ghosting occurs on non-1chip & 1chip models. It's just more apparent with a 1Chip because the image is more clear. I've already shown this with videos:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7569n4ipubzlmf4/1chip.MKV

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2nzjqgl886maet/non1chip.MKV

It's a minor and ridiculous point, all models have it. I've never even noticed it in 15 years and even after it's been brought to my attention....I still don't when playing games. Skips confirmed this as well.
So for those who claim its less pronounced on the Revised SNES, this is false.
Apparently an opinion is now fact. I have several mini's, 1chips, and non 1chip models, and the vertical bar is usually much more pronounced on older models. If you're going to have a fact sheet and say something as stupid as this, at least back it up with something other than your opinion. "You're wrong, I'm right, fact!"

This guy has been constantly posting on Neo-Geo forums to egg people into finding some way to make the SVHC model have video quality on par with the 1Chip SNES models, all the while saying the 1chip isn't better because it's not natural to look that good. But any opportunity of hope that a mod can get his SVHC to that level, he begs for an answer or for someone to experiment.

The only thing that has any merit in his post are the glitches in some games with the 1Chip, I haven't verified all of them, but Magical Pop'n was one game where I did see the 1Chip have issues when other models did not.

I don't really care which one is better, but this guy spewing out his opinions and things he's read on the internet as fact is getting annoying. Just look at the over exaggeration he made on the ghosting and vertical bar, and you see nothing of the sort on the screenshots blizz posted.

He's a borderline troll.
Last edited by Pasky on Fri May 09, 2014 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Fudoh
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Fudoh »

and the vertical bar is always much more pronounced on older models
Japanese launch SFC unit don't show any vertical bars. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
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Pasky
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Pasky »

Sorry, I meant usually, I'll edit my post. I also have a few older models that have no bar. I've never seen one on any of my mini's and 1chip's, not that it can't happen as I've seen it on 1Chips from others. I do have several older ones that have bars and sometimes multiple bars.

I don't own a SVHC myself, but had 2 pass through my hands and I didn't see a bar on those either.
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lettuce
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by lettuce »

So is the Super Famicom Jr. regarded as having the best picture quality then? Those things aren't cheap on eBay either, i would love one but paying over £70 for an unboxed one isnt going to happen :(
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CkRtech
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by CkRtech »

Have any of you guys done the additional capacitor mods on your SNES to eliminate the vertical bar? I also read that switching the power supply on some of the 1CHIPs helps eliminate glitching? http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... d-easy-fix

Haven't done any of this for my SNES units, but I have had that page in the back of my mind for awhile.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by SNES_is_the_Best »

blizzz wrote:I can't see any "shadow ghosting" on my console. I won't deny that the bar in the middle exists, but you need much more extreme screens to see it. Like the opening scene of FF VI. It's very faint and I'm not even sure if you can see it on the screenshot, but it exists.
Be sure to carefully read my statement regarding the ghosting. Some devices that have filtering will reduce it. DNR reduces it. My SNES Mini has 3 shadows produced on Yoshi's Island, stage 1-1 when Yoshi is against the white/blue sky. But if I turn on DNR on my Plasma, its 70% gone.

AND....if your taking pictures only via your capture card, you'll never see it. Plus, many capture cards filter noise, as do XRGB devices, so you won't likely see it there ether.

Remember, the key here is "filtering". Because of the noisy output of the 1CHIP/Mini consoles, a noise filter will get rid of the majority of the ghosting.

As for the others who think I'm lying for whatever reason, do some research. I'm not the only one who's posted about the ghosting.
blizzz wrote:Here's the same scene on a flash cart. There is no visible difference between the two bars.
I only said it was a possibility. Others have reported it to occur. If it doesn't happen with you (unlike others) then good!
Pasky wrote:This guy again (SNES_IS_DA_BEST).
I like how you say "this guy again", as if I'm the thorn in everyone's side. Your trolling started to show itself earlier, but now its becoming even more apparent with your intentional misspelling of my user name and other jabs.
Pasky wrote:We just had this discussion on neo-geo forums. Ghosting occurs on non-1chip & 1chip models. It's just more apparent with a 1Chip because the image is more clear. I've already shown this with videos:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7569n4ipubzlmf4/1chip.MKV

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2nzjqgl886maet/non1chip.MKV

It's a minor and ridiculous point, all models have it. I've never even noticed it in 15 years and even after it's been brought to my attention....I still don't when playing games.
Minor? Depends on the display and what games your playing. When I play games with bright backgrounds I see it virtually all the time. If your display filters noise EVEN SLIGHTLY, then you will see it "less" than I do. My CRT's do no filtering, so its heavily pronounced. And there are others on racketboy who noticed it long before I did.

And no, the original does not ghost. What your seeing is pixel smearing. All model 1's have pixel smearing to the right edges of pixels, and this is what gives the model 1's the softer picture. It may "look" like ghosting to you because of the smear, but its not the same thing.
Pasky wrote:Apparently an opinion is now fact. I have several mini's, 1chips, and non 1chip models, and the vertical bar is usually much more pronounced on older models. If you're going to have a fact sheet and say something as stupid as this, at least back it up with something other than your opinion. "You're wrong, I'm right, fact!"
I said it was false because my 1CHIP had it MORE than my SHVC. Zing from Racketboy said the vertical bar on his Mini was worse than his SHVC also. So I guess our eyes were deceiving us and its an opinion because you say so? Even YOU said at one time that it varies from console to console.

You sound more like your defending the 1CHIP-Mini than simply trying to be objective. Good grief, your 1CHIP is not returning you love, so quit acting like its a family member, geez.
Pasky wrote:This guy has been constantly posting on Neo-Geo forums to egg people into finding some way to make the SVHC model have video quality on par with the 1Chip SNES models, all the while saying the 1chip isn't better because it's not natural to look that good. But any opportunity of hope that a mod can get his SVHC to that level, he begs for an answer or for someone to experiment.
Wow....your trolling is getting more and more worse.

Anyway, your statement is false. I was asking honest and sincere questions to try and figure out what is TRULY causing the softer picture on the pre-1CHIP consoles......ALONG WITH the ghosting and overdriven whites of the 1CHIP-Mini. You probably only feel "egged" because Kyuusaku basically challenged the communities questionable modding skills, then you trolled him and slandered him for simply posting his beliefs and concerns. If you thought he was wrong, then I suggested to test it and find out. You declined for obvious reasons (cough: scared-you-could-be-wrong-and-damage-ego :cough)

And the 1CHIP is the worse version of the SNES because of other reasons, not the BS you claim I stated (which I did not).
Pasky wrote:The only thing that has any merit in his post are the glitches in some games with the 1Chip, I haven't verified all of them, but Magical Pop'n was one game where I did see the 1Chip have issues when other models did not.
The "only" thing? So I guess the vertical bar, ghosting, sharper picture, are just lies? First you say its true, now you say its not? Seriously?

Anyway, I'd like to know what you found with Magical Pop'N.
Pasky wrote:I don't really care which one is better
Then why are you getting so overly defensive? Why even bother to flame me?
Pasky wrote:but this guy spewing out his opinions and things he's read on the internet as fact is getting annoying. Just look at the over exaggeration he made on the ghosting and vertical bar, and you see nothing of the sort on the screenshots blizz posted.
That's because you cannot capture it via "picture". You yourself already proved that with your filtered videos.

So lets get this straight....

1. Glitches = "Opinion"
2. Ghosting = "Opinion"
3. Vertical bar = "Opinion"
4. Overdriven whites = "Opinion"
5. Sharper Picture = "Opinion".

Your over-the-top trolling is killing your credibility with every sentence you type. And that picture with the ghosting was A CRUDE EXAMPLE. I even said so after showing it. You clearly don't read that statement and then simply attack based on emotion instead of reason. Your far, FAR too loyal to your 1CHIP.
Pasky wrote:He's a borderline troll.
Ok, I post simple facts and then become a troll. You rip my statements out of context, call me a liar, and your not a troll?

Enough of your trolling. Don't talk to me anymore, please. Thank you.
Last edited by SNES_is_the_Best on Fri May 09, 2014 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pasky
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Pasky »

So now capture cards filter the noise and it cannot be seen through a capture card.

The same ghosting happening on the 1Chip as the older models is not the same, the older models are "pixel smearing".

All this psuedo technical talk of "filter" and noise filters and nothing to back it up. If anything TV's filter out more and are less susceptible to noise than capture cards.
SNES_is_the_Best wrote: Anyway, I'd like to know what you found with Magical Pop'N.
SNES_is_the_Best wrote: Don't talk to me anymore, please. Thank you.
I'm not feeding this troll anymore. Have fun with this guy, I'm sure he's going to see how long he can keep the roller coaster ride going on this forum now.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by blizzz »

SNES_is_the_Best wrote:Anyway, I'd like to know what you found with Magical Pop'N.
There's a recent thread about that game.
SNES_is_the_Best wrote:AND....if your taking pictures only via your capture card, you'll never see it. Plus, many capture cards filter noise, as do XRGB devices, so you won't likely see it there ether.
Input filtering is used in basically all devices. From TVs to VHS recorders and capture cards. Composite would look like utter trash without it (even more than it does with it). You should judge the quality of a device by how it looks on your screen. And for *me*, I can't see any ghosting on my CRT TV nor on my RGB captures. So I really don't care about it.

The first time I saw it was on both of Pasky's video, but still not to a degree that I would care about.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by SNES_is_the_Best »

blizzz wrote:Input filtering is used in basically all devices. From TVs to VHS recorders and capture cards. Composite would look like utter trash without it (even more than it does with it). You should judge the quality of a device by how it looks on your screen. And for *me*, I can't see any ghosting on my CRT TV nor on my RGB captures. So I really don't care about it.

The first time I saw it was on both of Pasky's video, but still not to a degree that I would care about.
The "degree" is what differs. I get 3 shadow-ghosts on objects against bright backgrounds. You get none. Therefore, my filter (if it exists) is not specific enough to noise, whereas yours is. That's the nature of different displays.

Its good that you don't see it. Now if the glitches with games bothers you, then that's a totally different beast. Why? Cause nothing will fix it. The chips, as Byuu stated, are radically different. So some games don't like the S-CPUN-A and S-APU, and sadly theres nothing that can be done about it.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by CkRtech »

SNES_is_the_Best wrote:Its good that you don't see it. Now if the glitches with games bothers you, then that's a totally different beast. Why? Cause nothing will fix it.
From page 3 of the link I posted from Assembler -
Believe it or not, there's a lot of people with a 1CHIP SNES (or the SNES Mini) that report graphical glitches in Super Ghouls N Ghosts and Pocky and Rocky 2 and when they switch PSUs, it goes away.
<shrug> Again, I haven't done anything like that. Just reporting what I read.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by ApolloBoy »

lettuce wrote:So is the Super Famicom Jr. regarded as having the best picture quality then? Those things aren't cheap on eBay either, i would love one but paying over £70 for an unboxed one isnt going to happen :(
Why not just go for the SNES mini? It's the exact same console, there's no real need to get a Super Fami Jr.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by SNES_is_the_Best »

ApolloBoy wrote:
lettuce wrote:So is the Super Famicom Jr. regarded as having the best picture quality then? Those things aren't cheap on eBay either, i would love one but paying over £70 for an unboxed one isnt going to happen :(
Why not just go for the SNES mini? It's the exact same console, there's no real need to get a Super Fami Jr.
Exactly.

I think alot of the reasons people choose the Jr. over the Mini, and vice-verse, is because of ether emotional attachments, or because they accidentally found one with had possibly had less ghosting/vertical bar issues. But this varies from console to console, and from display to display.

But yes, the Mini is the same.

Oh....and ApolloBoy, my apologies to you for getting angry at you on another thread last year. I think I owe you that.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by SNES_is_the_Best »

CkRtech wrote:
SNES_is_the_Best wrote:Its good that you don't see it. Now if the glitches with games bothers you, then that's a totally different beast. Why? Cause nothing will fix it.
From page 3 of the link I posted from Assembler -
Believe it or not, there's a lot of people with a 1CHIP SNES (or the SNES Mini) that report graphical glitches in Super Ghouls N Ghosts and Pocky and Rocky 2 and when they switch PSUs, it goes away.
<shrug> Again, I haven't done anything like that. Just reporting what I read.
Yea I've never witnessed those glitches. And I've got several Official power supplies. Those glitches referred to are not the same that I'm referring to.
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lettuce
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by lettuce »

ApolloBoy wrote:
lettuce wrote:So is the Super Famicom Jr. regarded as having the best picture quality then? Those things aren't cheap on eBay either, i would love one but paying over £70 for an unboxed one isnt going to happen :(
Why not just go for the SNES mini? It's the exact same console, there's no real need to get a Super Fami Jr.

I would have thought the Jr. would have been cheaper than the Mini???....is this not the case then?
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by ApolloBoy »

lettuce wrote:I would have thought the Jr. would have been cheaper than the Mini???....is this not the case then?
Not at all, the Jr. is pretty hard to find so that's why it goes for a lot. The SNES mini was released in larger quantities so you'd be able to find one for about $40-50.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by lettuce »

ApolloBoy wrote:
lettuce wrote:I would have thought the Jr. would have been cheaper than the Mini???....is this not the case then?
Not at all, the Jr. is pretty hard to find so that's why it goes for a lot. The SNES mini was released in larger quantities so you'd be able to find one for about $40-50.
On eBay the cheapest one ive seen is for like $75 plus shipping to the UK.

The amplifier chip used for the RGB mod is that the same chip used in the N64 RGB amp mod???
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by ApolloBoy »

lettuce wrote:The amplifier chip used for the RGB mod is that the same chip used in the N64 RGB amp mod???
You don't have to use an amplifier, the RGB mod is just a matter of reconnecting some of the pins on the encoder to the multiout. It jut consists of three wires and three resistors.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Pasky »

Capacitors as well if you wish to AC couple it, but I suppose this depends on whether they are in your SCART cable or not.
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by SNES_is_the_Best »

Pasky wrote:Have fun with this guy, I'm sure he's going to see how long he can keep the roller coaster ride going on this forum now.

Image
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by lettuce »

Pasky wrote:Capacitors as well if you wish to AC couple it, but I suppose this depends on whether they are in your SCART cable or not.
Watched the GameTechUS YT mod for this, seem that 75 ohms is best to use???
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Pasky
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Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

Post by Pasky »

Yes, 75 ohms is the standard.
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