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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:54 am 



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I have one, I feel that it's basically no different than a XRGB-1 with a built in (and non-bypassable) scanline generator.
The XRGB-1 also works with a lot of troublesome PCBs and displays without cutting off pixels. Just add a scanline generator.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:30 pm 



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fafangus wrote:
Ok lol I was so close to have it, it goes for Y 26000, and it makes a lot of bucks for me atm, so sooner or later I will catch this one


LOL. You sniping cats all had your eyes on that auction didn't you!

I needed an XRGB for a Vega 9000 DX and was surprised when I saw the DISPL listed for auction on yahoo.
After winning a heated auction of 38 bids, I paid the 26,600 yen to takaharu_77, for auction ID 192327788 following a bidding war with about seven snipers!
I've had the DISPL on hold for a while at Buyee while I bought some other arcade related accessories I needed, and saved for the shipping.
Anyway I received the DISPL today and am surprised that it is serial no. 000002.
Does anyone know how many DISPL's Micomsoft made?
The DISPL came with the Japanese style SCART connector that will connect the Vega 9000DX that i bought as well.
I have to get an Australian standard 9v 500MA centre positive adapter before I fire up the unit to test.
:D


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:57 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
If you're talking about a EU/JP21 adapter, then you connect pin 8 (EU) to pin 11 (JP) and then pin 11 (JP) over a resistor to pin 16 (JP). You need a resistor in the 75 to 100 ohm range.

Upping the thread to report after modding my EU>JP adapter.
- used a 100 Ohm resistor, seems to work although I'm unsure I haven't fried it while soldering...
- none of the 9V power adapters I have work, using a 12V instead...could it damage the DISPL on the short or long term ? I'll try a 10V I have somewhere...
- passed through an AA 9A60 to a Sony W6 (tried on a LCD monitor w/ VGA input before, it was ok)

So; consoles work now except my MD2 because I've long cut it's noisy 5V line inside the RGB cable.
(but the XRGB-2 and 3 on their part have no trouble detecting the signal)
I'm thinking the DISPL could use a permanent (or switchable) internal mod for that damn 5V/AV switching thing.

Mixed results in regards to stability, for instance PAL games on a (chipped) PS1 are a little shaky at the bottom, when NTSC games are perfectly stable.
And as I said before pcb's show a level of shakiness too depending on the hardware.
Of course unlike the XRGB-2/3 there's no AFC setting to help correct this so no surprise.

Got to test moar, will report again then.
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:02 pm 


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Another update (sorry for double-posting but there isn't much info about the DISPL so I feel compelled to share whenever I find something).

- EDIT: nope it still doesn't work on 9V.

- To adjust frequency/stability we know there's a single PS/NTSC switch, but I've also found a potentiometer inside on the pcb (yellow, can't miss it).
Seems the best procedure is to select either PS or NTSC, then fine-tune using the potentiometer.

- The HI/LOW scanlines switch remains a mystery, but I believe it's really ON/OFF period. If tingoes would confirm his works the same ?

- My unit's serial is 000511.

Also fixed my MD2 scart cable to give a try and it looks gorgeous with the DISPL of course.
Still, playing with the R,G,B and Brightness potentiometer to find the right levels is kind of annoying.

Gotta test with moar hardwares...
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:24 pm 


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Now after testing various sources and comparing with the XRGB-2 and 3, there is one point cvaniafan made I have to agree with: the picture quality of the DISPL is superior, at least to the XRGB-2's.

Understand: clearer, cleaner, sharper than the XRGB-2's, which in turn looks more like your average interpolated emulation with simple fake scanlines (still good though).
Compared to the XRGB-3 it is not superior in that area, just different.

BUT, there's those weak color and 'brightness' controls that don't help getting over the exaggerated contrast the DISPL seems to give whatever the level.

Still, it's really got something with that sharp, clear look + stark full-black lines and over-contrasted output that is kind of striking.
It's not always perfectly stable, but when it is (most of the time), it's kind of flawless with not a hint of noise or shaking.

Again 50Hz sources can show a bit of shaking at the top or bottom, hardly noticeable ingame though.
Man, playing Wip3out SE in widescreen mode with that beast was something !
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:52 pm 


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please don't be discouraged by the lack of replies on this topic. Every bit is highly appreciated.

I can't say that I noticed much of a difference between the XRGB-2 and the DISPL in terms of sharpness, but it's possible that I just different postprocessing adjustments on the DVDO for the two.

The weak A/D stage of the DIPL was a turn-off. No problems with that so far ? Like visible color banding ?

It's time you get your hands on Marqs' new wunderkind :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:45 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
please don't be discouraged by the lack of replies on this topic. Every bit is highly appreciated.

Oh I won't be, we all have to work on ancient devices for posterity. :mrgreen:

Quote:
I can't say that I noticed much of a difference between the XRGB-2 and the DISPL in terms of sharpness, but it's possible that I just different postprocessing adjustments on the DVDO for the two.

I went only throught AA 9A60 -> W6 for now, but I can very well imagine a DVDO 'taking over' the scaling quality.
So I felt something was weird so I hot-swapped the devices several times to compare and it became obvious: the DISPL's linedoubling really is better than the X2's.
If you want to get the idea of what I'm seeing just push the W6's EE, DE, black, and contrast enhancers up with the X2 (or x3 even if it's already sharper). Make everything sharper, over-contrasted and saturated.
The kind of settings that make people say 'wow!" (until they start to do long sessions or watch movies).

Quote:
The weak A/D stage of the DIPL was a turn-off. No problems with that so far ? Like visible color banding ?

Can't say I've noticed because until now my focus was on the clarity/sharpness and compatibility, so I haven't tested much games for color reproduction yet.
Just the apparently unfixable contrast is a bother.
I'll come back with comments on that later.

Quote:
It's time you get your hands on Marqs' new wunderkind :mrgreen:

Of course. It's the kind of device that will mark the end of an era and the beginning of a new one.
I don't think I will shed much tears letting most of my old scaling stuff go via the trading station. :p
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:55 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
It's time you get your hands on Marqs' new wunderkind :mrgreen:


Oh my, did I miss something? What is it? :P (I'm always around lurking, just not posting too much)


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:00 pm 


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donluca wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
It's time you get your hands on Marqs' new wunderkind :mrgreen:


Oh my, did I miss something? What is it? :P (I'm always around lurking, just not posting too much)

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158
Some pics on page 2.
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:13 pm 


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Quote:
Just the apparently unfixable contrast is a bother.

what settings are you using ? By going with a lower A/D setting (that's the poti labeled w/ brightness) and increasing the RGB levels instead I had no obvious problems with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:37 pm 


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Not sure I am doing this right...
All three color potis maxed out (turned all the way left <) and the 'brightness' one only about 30~45° right > (hard to tell, but that's not much of its total course).

The thing is while the picture's luminosity is high-enough like that, the difference between dark and bright areas is too important.
Maybe the AMVA panel with its tendencies to crush deep blacks doesn't hep ?
And if I bring the 'brightness' lower or higher it becomes either overall too dark or too bright (burning bright areas).

Stupid question; I'm using a 12V 800mA, could it be that I am 'overdriving' the device ? :?

It's much easier to adjust on the XRGB-2 where you have control over everything (A/D & D/A, brightness, black, RGB, gamma) but as you suggest in your review of the DISPL I bet setting the best possible then tweaking the display's settings would be a better solution.
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:47 pm 


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Quote:
Stupid question; I'm using a 12V 800mA, could it be that I am 'overdriving' the device ?

sorry, I don't remember the original specs.

I don't think that I used maxed out RGB controls. If you want more pop did you try to boost the levels by adjusting the output on an Extron interface ?


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:01 pm 


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The original AC adpater is 9V 300mA, but it doesn't seem to work, maybe old caps dunno.
Tried an universal AC @9V but no luck...so I gave the 12V 800mA I'm using for the XRGB-2 a try and it finally worked.

OK I'll try to adjust the brightness starting with lower RGB values.

P.S. still no Extron RGB interface in my stuff as I could always do without one until now. :oops: :mrgreen:
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Last edited by Xyga on Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:00 am 


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Xyga wrote:


Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:51 am 


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OK so it was a indeed a bad idea to search a good 'birghtness' level starting with maxed-out RGB potentiometers.
It is easier with lower RGB values. Those potentiometers really could use numbered marks lol.
Still not perfect, but much more acceptable now.

------------

Continuing;
I've compared stuff with the XRGB-2 again and concluded that to get it to look closer to the DISPL's kind of output it requires the following 'tweaks';

XRGB-2 (with 'super mode' menu):
- 'D/A level' around -12 or -10 (default is about -15 or -14) to increase the output luminosity a bit.
- 'black' around +9 or +10 to finish simulating the superior contrast the DISPL gives anyway (alternative: tweak the A/D level instead. Same effect on black levels).
- do what you want with 'brightness' as long as black backgounds don't look grey~ish anymore.
- 'v_line' ON, of course.
- 'DTC' -> set 'user dtc' until you find the most stable output picture, it's possible to almost completely eliminate any 'wave' or 'noise' effect with a bit of patience.

Sony W6 (or other 2013~2014 W series)[/u] via a transcoder:
- edge enhancer on 'low' or 'mid'.
- a little bit more sharpness, around 55 but not much more, especially if the edege enhancer is on 'mid' already.

Other display/scaler:
- push up whatever sharpness settings available on your display or external scaler (if you're pairing scalers) until the slight 'interpolation haze' common with linedoubled pictures will almost completely disappear from around the visible lines/pixels.
Don't set it too high, just enough to slightly but visibly 'sharpen', clean up the whole picture.

Getting darker/blacker fake lines on the XRGB-2:
- the XRGB-2's fake lines aren't as dark as the DISPL's. If you want them full black; enable v_line and add an external scanline generator like an SLG to the chain: you will obtain a much stronger 'double layer' effect (and no it's not the same as maxing out the SLG3000's potentiometers, it will be 'blacker').

------------

Even with those tweaks it's not exactly the same, for some reason the DISPL's linedoubling still displays more 'spaced lines' and an overall clearer/cleaner-looking picture.

As a bonus during my testing sessions I've found a definitive solution to the MD2's noisy scart cable issue, while retaining the actually useful 5V 'AV switching' pin active.
Haven't seen that alternative described anywhere before, let me know if you're interested.

Anyway -> Never seen the MD looking so perfect on a flat panel + scaler setup before. <3 <3 <3
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:32 am 


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Well, well, well... found a working 9V 500mA AC adapter this time.
More details about it: 11W power, 6VA.

And I don't know if it's my imagination or what, but it seems to me it has changed the colors balance a bit.
Now when the three colors potentiometers are maxed, Green is clearly dominant.
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:55 pm 



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Sorry to be bringing up this old topic but I just gotten my hands onto a Displ. I need to do the tweak mentioned below to get my Supergun to work with it though.

Just to confirm what's said below:


Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
I'm obviously facing the scart>jp21 adapter not passing the 5V or something 'wake up' signal.

AFAIK: 5V to pin 11. From there through a resistor to Pin 16 (3V).

Maybe you can verify this on your supergun's JP21 connector.


I am using a JP21 Cable so I am going to have to open up the JP21 Connector, wire up a cable from pin 11 and pin 16 with a resistor (75 or 100 ohm) in between.

Sorry am defintely very Noob at this..

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:26 pm 



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I've been on the hunt for one of these for quite a while now. I understand that it may not be as relevant anymore with the OSSC taking the world by storm, but Fudoh's write-up has had me sufficiently intrigued for my arcade boards. I hadn't seen one available for 1+ years of being on the lookout.

Of course, not one, but two surfaced at the same time. I was able pick up one on Yahoo Japan, but there is another one available on eBay right now for anyone who might be interested:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-Disp ... 3118618248


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:37 pm 


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Key to using the OSSC with almost any arcade board is either getting a display that will handle all the off-spec refresh rates or a DVI/HDMI to VGA converter that won't mind the non-standard timings. Once you have that, it's REALLY hard to recommend any of the old Micomsoft units for ANY reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:51 pm 


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The DISPL has the best linedoubled picture I have ever seen from an analogue machine, not the sharpest but the kind of moderate softness it shows is rather at its advantage, very pleasing including without the scanlines on.
Yet the (tired) sensitive potentiometers drive me mad sometimes, and after a taste of the OSSC and its new hybrid scanlines there's really nothing left for the DISPL indeed.

Regarding the use of the OSSC with arcade boards, I wonder how many boards really leave no other choice but to transcode to use a vga input ? I mean I haven't tried very off-60Hz boards with it, but it's incredible how many hardwares even the HDMI inputs of modern displays will take as long as they're only linedoubled.
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:43 am 



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My unit arrived yesterday and I had a chance to play with it tonight. It certainly lives up to the hype. The DISPL to a ViewSonic CRT is within striking distance of my PVM-20L5.

I was worried at first - the image was a blown out, psychedelic mess. However, after adjusting the potentiometers for a few minutes, I had an image that looked very nice. I happen to really like solid scanlines, so I really liked the "on" setting. Like the unit Fudoh tested, "off" meant off for me. With the scanlines enabled, it resembled 240p on a PVM.

For completeness sake, I'd been looking for a solution to get 240p to my PC CRT. I'd been considering an XRGB-3, but the DISPL may be my answer. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've been interested in this for arcade boards, but I'm thinking this may be a decent solution for an Amiga or an Atari ST (since the PC CRT should be able to handle some of their higher resolutions). Does anyone have any experience with this?

Reminder: there's a unit on eBay whose listing is ending tomorrow for anyone who might be interested (here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-Disp ... 1431.l2648)

-Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:22 am 


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Ah so it was for CRT, in this case the unique strong scanline setting is not a problem.

Now you've got a DISPL there's no need for another Micomsoft linedoubler indeed, For the ST no idea though...

strygo wrote:
Reminder: there's a unit on eBay whose listing is ending tomorrow for anyone who might be interested (here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-Disp ... 1431.l2648)

He's right, someone buy this, it's the best Micomsoft ever made.

(if you know what you're buying that is, remember there might be a small modification to do on your scart>jp21 adapter, it's explained in this very thread)
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:15 am 



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I’m using a SCART to JP21 cable from Retro Access and it works great. I recommend it for anyone needing one.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:19 am 


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good to know, mine was a straight pinouts converter and some signal wouldn't pass with my various consoles scart cables, the DISPL not showing anything at all
so I did the mod Fudoh advised and no issues since
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:19 pm 



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Did someone here win the eBay auction?

I played with mine more last night and for some reason, I couldn't get the Jaguar or the PS1 to work with it. I tried toggling the special "PS" dot pitch switch and it didn't seem to help. Anyone know if I'm missing something obvious?


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:43 pm 


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Maybe your RGB cables for these systems don't have the proper voltage connected to the blanking pin (16).

The reason why I initially had troubles using the DISPL was that it requires the blanking voltage to be present which most EU-Scart/JP21 adapters don't pass (mine didn't). After restoring this it all sources worked. If your cables don't provide this in the first place, then it might be the reason, why you don't get a picture with these two systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:49 am 


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Yeah sounds like what I've experienced. I've followed your advice and all was fine (10 minutes work on my EU>JP adapter)
Fudoh wrote:
If you're talking about a EU/JP21 adapter, then you connect pin 8 (EU) to pin 11 (JP) and then pin 11 (JP) over a resistor to pin 16 (JP). You need a resistor in the 75 to 100 ohm range.

@strygo: also at first I was using sub-specs power adapter that wasn't enough to power the DISPL, so you want to make sure yours is right for it.
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:57 am 


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But since his DISPL seems to work with some systems using the same EU/JP21 adapter, it might be source (or source cable) related in this particular case (PS1/JAG).


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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:25 am 


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Oh yes indeed *headscratch*
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 Post subject: Re: Feedbacks about the MICOMSOFT DISPL Scan converter ?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:06 pm 



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Do the other Micomsoft scalers that have a JP21 port have the same problem?


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