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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:28 pm 



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kitty666cats wrote:
I think I may stick with my Crosspoint after all, amidst being overtired the other day when putzing around with it, I realized that there were a couple loose connections that were leading me to believe there were other issues coming from the Crosspoint. Negative! Just my own shortsightedness :P


You're smart to stay with the Crosspoint. There's really nothing better. The more inputs/outputs the better too - especially with how much you've been posting about every imaginable converter and such, Crosspoints simplify setups at that point. You can loop all of those in/out of the Crosspoint, then never ever have to touch a wire again, and can run it to/from any system or monitor, loop multiple devices together, etc. etc. etc. Think I had 14 or 15 converters/scalers/etc. hooked up and looped back in/out of the Crosspoint at some point...


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:31 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
especially with how much you've been posting about every imaginable converter and such

:lol:

I think this is how kitty666cats' house looks like. Every single room :mrgreen: :

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:57 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:
Whew, dang that's much easier than I thought it would be. Recommendations for a good site to buy 'em?


Phoenix plugs? I have a small bag of them that came with some extron crap, but I have seen them on the bay... as such https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pin-3-81mm-P ... SwZqZaSsh-

You just jam the wires on the other side of an RCA cable into the holes and tighten the screws. Isn't really a barrier to entry.

Edit: Please note that you need to count the number of phoenix connector outputs for your particular application, and look for one that fits. It is possible to cut them or otherwise mutilate them to remove extra pins if you are unable to find one of the proper configuration. lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:07 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
the reason for the adapters being wired differently is not dumb : the wiring(or hookup) is different for a source going in the inputs, vs one going out the outputs. you can look it up in the manual.

however it's possible to wire some adapters that'll work on both input and output (I think they have a resistor in line somewhere)


Ahh, I see. I've only seen bi-directional RCA pre-mades everywhere else (which isn't many places, granted...) other than RGC UK, so I kinda got the "let's milk 'em for $!" impression. But if it's drastically easier/less time for them to produce, then more power to 'em. They're decently profitable little breakouts, I'm sure... but probably not exactly priority #1!

I need to eat my words tbh and go learn how to make some cables/breakouts of my own, hehe
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:55 pm 


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yeah making you own will probably cost you $2 each and is easy
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:24 am 



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vol.2 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
Whew, dang that's much easier than I thought it would be. Recommendations for a good site to buy 'em?


Phoenix plugs? I have a small bag of them that came with some extron crap, but I have seen them on the bay... as such https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pin-3-81mm-P ... SwZqZaSsh-

You just jam the wires on the other side of an RCA cable into the holes and tighten the screws. Isn't really a barrier to entry.

If you're going to make them yourself I HIGHLY suggest buying the type with the cable rest/wing coming off the back of it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pole-Extron- ... Swf2pbmIMZ

Gives you an area to put a zip tie through and secure the RCA audio plugs - those wires really are incredibly thin and delicate once you've stripped the rubber insulation off and this helps them last and not short out and/or break (also gives you something to grab onto when unplugging them).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:06 am 


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Yes, some strain-relief is really recommended. otherwise the wires will rip out over time under the weight of the interconnects. definitely get ones with the longer plate and hold your cable adapter down with a zip-tie going through it, or some shrink tubing

make sure to buy the right type of phoenix connectors too. some older machines use 6-pin ones, and the ''newer'' Crosspoints and MVX generally use the 5-pin ones.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:20 am 


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For those using fw900 or gdm w900 how are you feeding a modern graphics card signal to take advantage of the high refresh rate or resolution? The hdmi to vga convertor seem to only support 1080p 60fps which isn’t really getting the best of the graphics card that could support full resolution up to whatever max FPS the monitor can handle. I have 2x gdm w900 and they are stunning but I feel they are not reaching their full potential


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:17 am 


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I 'member John from Digital Foundry in his ep described his gear and I'm pretty sure he was pushing some games at 120 fps and over, although maybe they were at lower res. could be worth checking it out.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:00 pm 


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You guys aren't wrong about my mountain of transcoders/converters/processors and other BS. I'm sure it's nothing compared to Fudoh's, but I'm sure he has them neatly organized/the majority of 'em stored away.

I def have had many disorganized nightmare-piles and spiderwebs of cables :P
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:23 pm 


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Ughhhh, my Crosspoint has some pretty dramatic image shift - I thought chaining in a RGB interface would alleviate things... it did, a bit, but it's still very noticeable and irritating. NOW I remember the other reason I was seeking something else, heh

EDIT:

Well, my modded/CFW'd GBS8200 chained with a 580xi alleviates things... but that really shouldn't be necessary :(
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:44 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:
Well, my modded/CFW'd GBS8200 chained with a 580xi alleviates things... but that really shouldn't be necessary :(


This is exactly why I haven't tackled a switch yet. It fills me with anxiety to think about the clusterfuck rabbithole I would enter trying to make everything perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:07 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
Well, my modded/CFW'd GBS8200 chained with a 580xi alleviates things... but that really shouldn't be necessary :(


This is exactly why I haven't tackled a switch yet. It fills me with anxiety to think about the clusterfuck rabbithole I would enter trying to make everything perfect.


I'm probably gonna sell the excessive thang and either just do the fabled 'plug something else in when I want to switch things up' or get a passive switcher that has ports for component, composite & audio on each input / the output. Those will take RGB and audio over whatever the hecc port you want, just have to match it with output. I've got some stuff I could pipe the output into in case of any signal degradation, too :)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:30 pm 


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pluging and uplugging really isn't too bad. I got that in my 2nd setup and it doesn't bother me.

I have an MVX in my main setup and I don't think it produces any more image shift than it would going straight into the monitor? which is what I took away from your post, but maybe I misinterpreted? in any case, the PVM-2950 let's me move the picture via a remote so it's not an issue, and thus I don't need other converters or interfaces. Only got the MVX and that's it, very clean setup. does everything a Crosspoint does but is way smaller. In fact it sits vertically in the side of the 2950 between the cube frame and chassis, kinda likes a big input card :mrgreen:

I used to have an RGB interface hooked up as well but now I prefer a simple setup with as few pieces as possible, so I took it out. Just console DE-15 and 3.5mm cables into the MVX, and MVX into the monitor and voila. when needs arise I will also use other outputs of the MVX to send to my capture card and my flatscreen tv, and the 20L5

my next hardware move honestly, is gonna be flashcarts and wireless controllers
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:11 am 



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BVM's price really seems to have gone crazy, can see just one D24 on ebay for £3500, makes me tempted to sell mine and buy an oled.

I don't think i'm ever going to totally happy with my BVM unless I get it calibrated and recapped and such, and I don't drive so that's not likely to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:49 am 


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all active switchers produce a degree of horizontal shift


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:34 am 


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oh. well I learned something right there.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:16 pm 



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What type/model of MVX do you use?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:00 pm 


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jedman wrote:
BVM's price really seems to have gone crazy


there's a pvm shooting past 1k on the bay. it's crazy times because of the c-virus i believe. people are desperate for a distraction and have more free time. things will change dramatically again in the fall when priorities once again shift. i've been following pro monitor prices on the bay and local listings since 1999, and i don't see the uptick as permanent for a number of reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:44 pm 


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MVX 84. I'm sure the shift is there, I just didn't notice it. I always move the picture around when switching console anyway, so this is a non-isue for me

vol.2 wrote:

there's a pvm shooting past 1k on the bay. it's crazy times because of the c-virus i believe. people are desperate for a distraction and have more free time. things will change dramatically again in the fall when priorities once again shift. i've been following pro monitor prices on the bay and local listings since 1999, and i don't see the uptick as permanent for a number of reasons.

some are way more than 1k. There's a 2530 for 2k. 2950s generally sell for 2k too.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:30 am 



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I've been trying my PS3 with my d-24, I have a lot of PS1 and 2 games on my PS3.

I guess with the PS2 games it would be best to play them at 480p via component?

Would this be the same for PS1? I guess you can't get 240p out of a PS3, so would 480p be the best option?

Not sure it anyone else has messed around with this.

I could play some of the games on my PS1 but I find disc swapping a pain.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:38 pm 


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jedman wrote:
I guess with the PS2 games it would be best to play them at 480p via component?


I find the RGB output on my PS2 to be slightly sharper than the component output. I recently did a comparison on my home setup and it was noticeable. It's fairly easy to try if you are using BNCs. My monitor input switches between them and the PS2 has an easy option to toggle them as well.

480i VS upscaling to 480p is mostly a matter of opinion. I think that those PS2 games which are native 480i should be played in 480i when using a capable CRT. I certainly wouldn't want to apply any processing to games like FFXII because they were designed from the ground up to be interlaced and they look sharp and perfect that way. I've seen "good" deinterlacing, but it always looks softer and I don't like that, especially when I've got a PVM to use.
For the small number of worthwhile PS2 games that came out in 480p, 480p generally looks best. (shadow of the colossus is a good example)

Quote:
Would this be the same for PS1? I guess you can't get 240p out of a PS3, so would 480p be the best option?


PS1 games are generally 240p. A few of them are 480i, or have 480i menus in places. Here's a list viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54382
I find no reason to upscale 240p to 480p for a CRT. 240p looks great out of the box.

Many people even take 480p and downscale it to 240p because they like the look better.

I don't own a PS3, but I believe that they are mostly in 720p or later games in 1080p. I can't comment on the best way to play PS3 on a BVM.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:04 pm 


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I would definitely play ps1 games in 240p on the BVM as well. That's how these games look best, with blanked lines, which provides a natural sort of anti-aliasing
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:16 pm 


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The ps3 is a 720p console in practice. It's been awhile since I was going hard at ps3 but I remember having the menu at 1080p and resolution almost always dropped when booting a game.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:54 pm 



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Just to clarify I have a PS2 and a PS1 as well as a PS3, my question was referring to the best way to play PS1 and PS2 games on the PS3. The advantages of this is that you can store games on a USB or the internal HDD and so you don't have to swap discs.

I know that the games will look best played in there native res, but there is no option for this through the PS3 so I was trying the different options to find the best alternative.

Actually having tried the different resolutions of 480p,720p and 1080i I quite like the look of PS1 games in 720p over HDMI. As the crt smooths the image a small amount at 720p but its also really detailed.

I found 480p through component is too blurry. And 1080i looks very good but you get the interlacing effect on the static screens.

The image through the PS3's component output isn't as sharp as HDMI so you lose more detail, but some may prefer this as its somewhat smoother.

Looks better then it would through my LCD in any case which is too sharp.

If I'm really into a game I will probably just play it on disc on the PS1 though, but for a quick go on other PS1 games they look pretty good on the D-24 at 720p.

Havn't tried the PS2 games on it yet but imagine they will be much the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:12 pm 


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If I were you I'd keep ps2 hooked up and store ps1 and ps2 games on it's HDD. no disc swapping that way.

sorry, I just can't recommend upscaling ps1 games when you have a beautiful crt that handles 240p natively. I mean what's the point of owning that BVM then? might as well sell it and get a pc crt...
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:30 pm 


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As per what FB says, hard to recommend 720p for OG PS/PS2 games.

If you want convenience, Free McBoot for the PS2 has you covered. You can even load games over your network with popstarter if you want. That's kind of out-of-scope for this thread though so yea.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:00 pm 



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I remember looking into using the PS2 HDD a while ago but seemed that the compatibility with PS1 games was pretty poor?

If the compatibility was good I would look into that though.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:28 pm 


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jedman wrote:
compatibility with PS1 games was pretty poor?


i don't use it, but i have looked into it a few times. what i remember discovering is that the SMB network method seems to work better. i think the compatibility issues stemmed from hdd and usb peripheral support issues. there isn't anything that technically should be a real issue because popstarter makes use of the same code that the PS2 normally uses to play PS1 games anyway. there is a very small list of wholly unremarkable PS1 games that don't play correctly on any PS2.

there are guides to popstarter here: https://bitbucket.org/ShaolinAssassin/p ... /wiki/Home

but again, it's a bit out of scope for this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:35 pm 


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jedman wrote:
I remember looking into using the PS2 HDD a while ago but seemed that the compatibility with PS1 games was pretty poor?

If the compatibility was good I would look into that though.


Pretty sure work is always being done on POPstarter by some glorious dedicated madmen. But yeah, it seems like it's still somewhat of a headache - a lot of people opt to burn PS1 shit, and just put PS2 shit on the HDD.
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