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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 2:59 pm 


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While I do mostly prefer 480p on slot shadow mask tubes,

I fired up Soul Calibur 2 in progressive scan on the PVM-20L5 last night and uhhh... wut? This is straight up insane...

It is so unbelievly clear and crisp, and the perceived dynamic range of the picture is really impressive. flat-out astounding even. colours hyper tight. kind of otherwordly looking picture, It is really fun to thinker with. no gaussian blur at all tho, so you see graphics in are their low res glory. Now I need to try 1080i ps2 games on this thing.

Fiddled with the PVM-2950 some more. I finally found the perfect settings for it, which is a relief. I gotta say, it looks really lovely.
Only thing that annoys me a little bit is that the light blues are a touch too strong/blown out, and that's something I notice too on pictures/videos of this set, so looks like it was set that way from the factory. If I ever find the remote for cheap (which could take a while), I'll try ajusting Blue Gain a bit. We'll see if makes the light blues better without affecting the rest of colours too much(I feel like it'll be a compromise type of thing). Other than that I like the colours on it. Gamed all evening on it and it looks great

On the whole, the colours of the 2950, to my eye are not quite as ''tight'' as on the 2530/KV-25XBR (the dark-tinted tube of the latter two may help them achieve richer dark colours i think. Those sets really pop and have creamy whites which look awesome, again probs partly due to the tinted glass) although in some areas the 2950 is better (the lighter colour reproduction is really vibrant and beautiful. Probs benefit from better contrast in that range). Which also checks out with pictures and videos I've seen that showcase those sets. It looks more like a hyper-tight consumer set, or arcade monitor, than a mid/hi grade PVM. And there's nothing wrong with that! The screen is huge and fighting games ar amazing on this thing. Played Soul Calibur 2 on it as well and it looked really great, even tho it's 480i.

EDIT: rewatched Steve from RetroTech's video and it seems like other Sony remotes will work, as long as they have a few key buttons. I'll dig out my Sony remotes and check if I have one that fits the bill.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 11:38 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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FinalBaton wrote:
EDIT: rewatched Steve from RetroTech's video and it seems like other Sony remotes will work, as long as they have a few key buttons. I'll dig out my Sony remotes and check if I have one that fits the bill.

You can use multiple remotes at once too. To get into the service menu on my KV-25DXR I had either two or three remotes laid out (my 3230's, FV310, and some random Sony one, think from a VTR or something), and I was able to hit the correct buttons in order to get into the service menu! Since found the real remote (supposedly the first remote with an alphanumeric keyboard ever) so don't need to go that extreme anymore thankfully.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:39 am 


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^^^^^^^
Ok, thanks for that info

Well, I found the remote I had kept from my KV-36FV300 (RMY182), and I was able to do everything with just that one! including full normal menu operation on top of service. awesome!

Image

I was afraid I couldn't save my settings, since I had seen someone state in a thread on here that you need the button ''12'' to save a setting change. But it's just not true, I was able to save by hitting ''write'' and then ''enter''. It even kept my change after unplugging the monitor (I tried this, because on my FV300, there was 2 levels of saving : one where it sticks until you unplug the TV, and another one where it sticks even when you unplug the TV).

Only command I didn't find, is : how do you move backwards in the service menu? I would select options and advance deeper in the menu, but when came time to move back a step or two to select another feature to adjust, I had to simply shut the TV off since I didn't find any command to move back. (But you know, reading about Sony service menu commands, I can't seem to find any mention of ''go back'' (or ''return'' etc) actually Image Maybe the option is just not there on those TVs?)

That remote happens to be nice to use, it's got weight and feels good to the touch, and it's got everything for normal menu too. the knob at center is used to scroll up and down through menu items and it feels nicer than having 2 little chiclet buttons to press instead.

Awesome now I can access menu and change screen size/position without getting off the couch, and it didn't even cost me a penny.


EDIT : figured out that if I press a line input button on the monitor, it takes me back to top of service menu. but I couldn't figure out how to exit service menu without turning off the monitor
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:35 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 102
I was the one who posted about "Button 12" being necessary. And I'll say it again: Steve has incomplete info in his video about this. Take a look at the service manual:

Image

I have tested this with my PGM and my newly acquired PVM 2950 and can confirm that the settings are not being saved with my monitor if you only press mute. I built a small Arduino board to send the IR command for "12" back when I didn't yet have the original remote.

Over in the German circuit-board forum we are currently in the process of developing a solution that uses LIRC, a raspberry pi and some components to build an "IR Translator" to get rid of the problem. The LIRC codes for the original RM-854 remote are readily available.
https://gist.github.com/burk3/6ea991f77 ... baa5e63dfb

I've also played with the idea of selling cloned remotes by teaching chunghop L336 with my original.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:34 pm 


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Thanks for the follow up.

Well, I don't have a key labeled ''12'' on my remote, but I was still able to save.
I used the ''enter'' key on the numpad after pressing ''write'', like Steve said, and it worked. So it looks like regarding his personal remote config at least, he's not wrong there. It's true that he didn't went to the lenght of mentionning the ''12'' button is the equivalent button on other remotes But I do very much appreciate him taking some of his free time to show us the service menu (I do personally wish he would have said how to back out of the menu, so not the most exhaustive of videos and I get your point. but as I said : I really appreciate his upload nonetheless)

Maybe the key labeled ''enter'' has the same function code as the one named ''12''?
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:41 pm 



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Do the universal programmable remotes for like $8 (up to the fancy $50+ Logitech with LCD screen even), not have this "12" button either? Just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:55 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 102
FinalBaton wrote:
But I do very much appreciate him taking some of his free time to show us the service menu (I do personally wish he would have said how to back out of the menu, so not the most exhaustive of videos and I get your point. but as I said : I really appreciate his upload nonetheless)


Same here! I love his videos.

FinalBaton wrote:
Maybe the key labeled ''enter'' has the same function code as the one named ''12''?


According to the IR Codes, button 12 sends 0xD10 while button "Enter" sends 0xA70 so they don't have the same function code.

Dochartaigh wrote:
Do the universal programmable remotes for like $8 (up to the fancy $50+ Logitech with LCD screen even), not have this "12" button either? Just curious.


I don't know for sure but it's unlikely I guess. It's a pretty unusual button for a remote, generally speaking, isn't it? I have never seen it on a TV's remote before.

But I'm not that well versed in Harmony remotes. I think you use predefined profiles from the community, but I don't know how to create those.
I did a 1 hour search for programmable remotes that accept some kind of cfg file with plain hex codes and the transmit protocol, but such a remote does not seem to exist. I ordered 2 cheap 4x4 button matrixes and will try to whip something up myself using an Arduino.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:05 am 



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Tokyo
Watched the new Blu-ray of "The Wizard", haven't seen it for 10+years. Not a great film, but it still gives me nostalgia and is still a feel good watch for me.

Anyone recognize the PVM model from the Nintendo game counselor offices? Anyone still own a working one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnrRjRP871Y


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:50 am 


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jd213 wrote:
Watched the new Blu-ray of "The Wizard", haven't seen it for 10+years. Not a great film, but it still gives me nostalgia and is still a feel good watch for me.

Anyone recognize the PVM model from the Nintendo game counselor offices? Anyone still own a working one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnrRjRP871Y


It's a PVM-1271Q / 1371QM (or possibly a 1270 / 1370). I have two - one working with a battered case and one with a minty case that died minutes after I received it...
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 2:06 am 



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Tokyo
Thanks for the info, sorry to hear about your non-working one. Hope you can get it working someday or at least use it as a donor or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 4:37 pm 



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Any opinions on the Sony GDM-W900 monitor?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 3:13 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 323
H6rdc0re wrote:
Any opinions on the Sony GDM-W900 monitor?


My opinion: buy it and see if you like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:22 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 410
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
H6rdc0re wrote:
Any opinions on the Sony GDM-W900 monitor?

Haven't used the W900, but I'm right in front of an FW900 right now and it's great. Unless it breaks down beyond repair I honestly don't think I'll go over to an LCD for desktop usage. I'm not kidding, it's that good.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:28 pm 



Joined: 30 Dec 2014
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H6rdc0re wrote:
Any opinions on the Sony GDM-W900 monitor?


Haven't see a W900 in person but from the pics i seen and from what i read its very comparable. If you can get a good deal on it i would jump on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:13 am 


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https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-CM8833 ... 31999#rwid

Image

" Philips CM8833-II
Philips CM8833-II has quite similar specs to the monitor above (used in the same type of applications). Philips CM8833-II has a RGB connector which can accept both analogue and digital RGB signal. The RGB connector uses the following pinout:

_____________
\ 5 4 3 2 1 /
\_9_8_7_6_/
-Pin- -RGB TTL- -RGB Analogue-
1 Ground Ground
2 Ground Ground
3 Red Red
4 Green Green
5 Blue Blue
6 Intensity Fast Blanking
7 Not used Composite Sync
8 H. Sync H. Sync
9 V. Sync V. Sync
Some of the CM8833-II models have also a sepearate composite video input (RCA connector). I have also heard of special versions with only the digital TTL RGB input. "

- via https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2 ... nouts.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does anyone happen to know of a DE-9/DE-15 adapter with compatible pinout for the analog RGB on this sucker? I would assume there's probably one out there (or, could just make one heh)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:19 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 323
Didn’t I answer this already?

viewtopic.php?p=1406199#p1406199


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:39 am 


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strayan wrote:
Didn’t I answer this already?

viewtopic.php?p=1406199#p1406199


lol, looks like you did! My memory's shit. I'd had someone else tell me it wouldn't work... not much left to do but perhaps try it out someday! Not much need for it anymore, but I'd still like to try :)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm 


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https://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-SCART-TV-RG ... Swn-tZIxE4

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I'm very disappointed nobody has picked up this bizarre CGA (EGA, too...?) to SCART thing, lol. It's so neat!
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:04 pm 


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nothing too special, just a RGBI DAC with a sync combiner

It would definitely not work with EGA. Even if it had the logic for 6-bit RGB, a SCART TV won't sync to medium res.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:29 pm 


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https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/j63 ... sotry_list

Pretty cheap XRGB-1 on Yahoo Japan, the catch is that it is a little beat and needs some repairs. Hope this is of interest to someone! :)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:40 pm 


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An XBR960 popped up on a nearby CL for free. Wish I had the space, hope it doesn't get junked. There was another free 47'' (according to them, not sure how they are measuring but I would figure it's at least 40'' screen space, looks huge) 4:3 Trititron for free. Just thinking about them gives me a hernia though.

If you are still looking, don't give up hope deals are out there. CRT is the way. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:35 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
CRT is the way. 8)

Amen
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:15 am 


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Anyone know of a decent Matrix Switch (nothing too big, maybe a simple 4x2)that accepts 15kHz RGB but doesn't need dang 'csync' like a Crosspoint, has 'normal' audio connectors, and perhaps can be set for 75 ohm output? Don't care whether BNC or DE-15, or hell even RCA jacks!

Alternatively - maybe a 4x1 switcher that also does the same? I know of the ones by Pelican/Gamestop clones of those +Phillips obvi, and I've heard that some units are actually pretty damn solid, but some suck (def heard a few people say that about one of the many Phillips units - but they weren't talking about the Phillips PH61150 which looks like it may be nice. Anyone try the PH61150?).

I ought to just stick with my Crosspoint at the junction, I've got all the stuff I need for it - it's just so dang bulky and feels excessive to me! Does gcompsw rock RCA RGBS/RGBs/RGsB? Not considering one of those, far too much $ (but I understand since it's a labor of love & not a giant company) but I've always wondered...
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:04 pm 


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TBH, while it needs csync, I think the Extron MVX series is ace.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:17 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
TBH, while it needs csync, I think the Extron MVX series is ace.


Yeah, I've been interested in their DE-15 switchers/matrices - do you know if they have a model that doesn't have the damn Phoenix connectors for the output (appreciate that they have them for input)? Or an alternative brand (think Crestron, Kramer, etc) with a similar unit, sans-stupid Phoenix connectors O_o
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:33 pm 


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not that I know of. I got someone to make me phoenix-to-rca plugs for the outputs
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:09 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
TBH, while it needs csync, I think the Extron MVX series is ace.

+100 it's the best


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:55 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
TBH, while it needs csync, I think the Extron MVX series is ace.


Yeah, I've been interested in their DE-15 switchers/matrices - do you know if they have a model that doesn't have the damn Phoenix connectors for the output (appreciate that they have them for input)? Or an alternative brand (think Crestron, Kramer, etc) with a similar unit, sans-stupid Phoenix connectors O_o


You can buy phoenix connectors with screw-down terminals. Then you just buy a handful of female-female RCA cables, cut them in half and screw them into the phoenix connectors. Viola, instant RCA inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:01 pm 


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Whew, dang that's much easier than I thought it would be. Recommendations for a good site to buy 'em? I really only need maybe one or two more - the ones I have right now are the RGC UK ones that are, for some dumb reason, wired separately for input or output @_@

I think I may stick with my Crosspoint after all, amidst being overtired the other day when putzing around with it, I realized that there were a couple loose connections that were leading me to believe there were other issues coming from the Crosspoint. Negative! Just my own shortsightedness :P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UNRELATED:

https://homeautomationcompany.co.uk/pro ... converter/

Image

^ Just a morbid curiousity, I'm sure this thing is a stinker that stinks a mean stank - but did anyone ever try this back in the day before we had the OSSC / you didn't want to drop super big $$$ on a Framemeister? It looks like it's probably made by CYP, their stuff really strikes me as pretty generic & they rebrand a lot of stuff/other people rebrand their stuff (the CSY-2100, for some weird reason, became the most cloned RGB SCART to component ever, good lord! Why not clone one that passes the damn audio?!) but they seem to have some cool units amidst their many junky ones!
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:22 pm 


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the reason for the adapters being wired differently is not dumb : the wiring(or hookup) is different for a source going in the inputs, vs one going out the outputs. you can look it up in the manual.

however it's possible to wire some adapters that'll work on both input and output (I think they have a resistor in line somewhere)
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