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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:38 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 632
I really doubt we'll see PC CRT prices end up rising like in the case of pro monitors. Unlike the latter they were never super expensive to begin with (with some rare exceptions) and the quantity available is significantly greater.

Of course the FW900 will see increased demand for a while after videos like that, but I don't think it'll be permanent. As great as it is, it's still a consumer-level product.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:06 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 119
"Consumer" in the sense that anyone could buy one back then, and many of these monitors were actually used for professional work, like image/photo editing.
And there's a lot of good stuff between a FW900 and a crappy 15" display. We're talking about monitors that can do 2k resolutions and high refresh rates. Like the Sony G502 which is basically a 4:3 FW900, or high/mid-end Viewsonic monitors.

The point is, people will realize they dont really need to pay a grand for a FW900, when a 19 incher with similar specs is close enough while costing a fraction of the price. And that's when people will stop "giving away" those monitors and prices will start to shoot up.

And from I could tell on reddit, PC CRTs are already getting harder to find.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:26 pm 


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tongshadow wrote:
"Consumer" in the sense that anyone could buy one back then, and many of these monitors were actually used for professional work, like image/photo editing.
And there's a lot of good stuff between a FW900 and a crappy 15" display. We're talking about monitors that can do 2k resolutions and high refresh rates. Like the Sony G502 which is basically a 4:3 FW900, or high/mid-end Viewsonic monitors.

The point is, people will realize they dont really need to pay a grand for a FW900, when a 19 incher with similar specs is close enough while costing a fraction of the price. And that's when people will stop "giving away" those monitors and prices will start to shoot up.

And from I could tell on reddit, PC CRTs are already getting harder to find.


I think the aspect ratio of the FW900 was a big draw. What are the other options?

I'm not exactly going to play a new game on Steam in 4:3. Sure, my smaller monitors accept high resolutions, but even a 19" monitor looks really small when I start letterboxing...
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:37 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 119
To be honest I dont remember letterboxed widescreen games being an issue, unless the text/HUD elements are too small. And that's from my experience playing Xbox 360 games on an 17" CRT Monitor.

The only other widescreen PC CRT I know of is the HP A7217A.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:19 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 62
I also think that the 16:10 ratio is a big factor. An alternative would be the FW900s predecessor, the W900. Curved glass, not as high-specced, but still a very nice monitor!
The HP A7217A is a rebranded FW900.

If you really want to hunt unicorns, check out the Intergraph 28HD96 :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:56 am 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
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SuperSpongo wrote:
I also think that the 16:10 ratio is a big factor. An alternative would be the FW900s predecessor, the W900. Curved glass, not as high-specced, but still a very nice monitor!
The HP A7217A is a rebranded FW900.

If you really want to hunt unicorns, check out the Intergraph 28HD96 :-D


I always keep reading how the HP A7217A is rebranded Sony FW900 and that might be true for the most part. However in specs of both I read the HP has P22 phosphors while the Sony has SMPTE-C phosphors. Those should be of higher quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:04 pm 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 62
Might be true. I also thought that maybe Sony reserved the right to take the best tubes of the production run for their own monitors. Kind of how they did it with the 20F1E and the 20E1E if I remember correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:11 pm 


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Plausible, they do this for camera lenses and probably always did for several of their high-end products anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:12 pm 


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Joined: 14 Sep 2019
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Location: Minsk, Republic of Belarus
Hello everybody
I am searching for BVM A14F5U service manual. If you has it please contact me in pm.
Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:14 am 


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Contemplating a BVM-A20F1U purchase:

Any chance a line like this is simply the unit being set to anamorphic 16:9? Or is this indicative of a problem and I should give it a hard pass?

Thoughts?

Quote:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:07 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 52
It's probably set to 16:9 like You said. But You should ask the seller.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:07 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 62
If it was set to 16:9, wouldn't the lines be R, G and B instead of one white line?
You could maybe determine from more pictures whether 16:9 is activated or not by looking at the LEDs of the control panel.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:19 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 52
If it was used with a digital Input like HD SDI, there will be a white line. I've once owned the A14H5E and I think there was a white line instead of the usual RGB lines. The monitor had only the HD SDI card instaled. But You are right, asking for a pic of the control panel is a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:13 am 


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Ahhh. Yes, a pic of the rear reveals it only has the HD-SDI card installed. It doesn't include a BKM-68X, which I'm learning is quite the unicorn.

Would I be crazy(er) to use the OSCC with my in-the-mail Extron DSC 301 HD (if needed) into an HD-SDI converter into this monitor? While waiting for the BKM-68X to pop up one day and cost less than a kidney?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:11 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 52
Yes, those cards are rare as hell and very expensive, but my friend has one for sale right now and he is a user of this forum :)

His user name is: m54b25

Send him a PM if You want to buy it. He also has the BKM-61D :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:30 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 62
Bummer. I thought you'd already known about the BKM-68X and its shortcomings.
If you already bought it, my advice would be: Cut your losses and leave it as is. If it was the A24 or A32 I'd say look for a 68X, but in the case of the 20...
Also if you want to go the OSSC route, you could just as well buy a High end PC monitor like the Sony F520, LaCie Blue IV, iiyama Vision Master 514 etc etc and have even more compatible resolutions as well as a finer dot pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:39 pm 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 98
Guys, i'm so excited. Today a d24 is coming in.

i hope it works!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:43 pm 


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Location: Canada
SuperSpongo wrote:
Bummer. I thought you'd already known about the BKM-68X and its shortcomings.


Are you referring to it's poor sync with some Sega consoles, it's rarity, both...or is there more I'm unaware of? :)

SuperSpongo wrote:
If you already bought it, my advice would be: Cut your losses and leave it as is. If it was the A24 or A32 I'd say look for a 68X, but in the case of the 20...


I'm guessing just due to it being smaller? Or is the 20 not the nirvana I've been led to believe it is?

SuperSpongo wrote:
Also if you want to go the OSSC route, you could just as well buy a High end PC monitor like the Sony F520, LaCie Blue IV, iiyama Vision Master 514 etc etc and have even more compatible resolutions as well as a finer dot pitch.


Hadn't considered this route. Saldy gave away all my PC CRTs long before the OSSC existed. Googling those models makes it seem like they're not much easier to come by these days either. Sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:14 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 119
PC CRTs are amazing, specially for retrogaming. The high ends ones are getting very rare, and it wont be long until people start selling an average 17 incher instead of just throwing them away.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:05 am 


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Has anyone opted for a SquareTrade warranty when purchasing monitors through eBay? I can't believe they'll warranty a 20yr old PVM...

There's a 45-day waiting period before your coverage kicks in to rule out pre-existing conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:25 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 62
HDgaming42 wrote:
Are you referring to it's poor sync with some Sega consoles, it's rarity, both...or is there more I'm unaware of? :)

No, those are the exact points I was thinking of.

HDgaming42 wrote:
I'm guessing just due to it being smaller? Or is the 20 not the nirvana I've been led to believe it is?

A bit of personal opinion, but the A20 to me seems like "old technology" being retrofitted to suit new tasks. By the time the A-series was relevant, there really was no need anymore for 4:3 tubes. It still uses the same tube that was used in the 20F1 and the D20F1. Me, I like the 16:9 tubes on Multiformat monitors because you can really take advantage of the widescreen modes of the XBox Classic, PS2, 360, PS3 era while still getting a 20 inch 4:3 picture (in case of the A24). It makes the monitor an even better Jack of all trades.
On top of that, I may be spoiled because I'm living in Germany. Recently, a guy was selling his A32 with the 68X card for 2500€ in Berlin.

HDgaming42 wrote:
Hadn't considered this route. Saldy gave away all my PC CRTs long before the OSSC existed. Googling those models makes it seem like they're not much easier to come by these days either. Sigh.


There are a bunch of good PC CRT monitors which are similarly specced. Again, maybe I am spoiled, but if I search for "21 inch monitor" and pick out those with a flat tube, the results are usually very usable and cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:55 pm 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 98
anyone live in NYC or Northern NJ with a D24E1WU?

I just got one myself and may need some help if you're local to these areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:44 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 632
davidwhangchoi wrote:
anyone live in NYC or Northern NJ with a D24E1WU?

I just got one myself and may need some help if you're local to these areas.


Not sure how helpful I can be but I fit that description, feel free to PM.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:59 pm 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 98
fernan1234 wrote:
davidwhangchoi wrote:
anyone live in NYC or Northern NJ with a D24E1WU?

I just got one myself and may need some help if you're local to these areas.


Not sure how helpful I can be but I fit that description, feel free to PM.

thanks mate!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:12 am 



Joined: 01 Sep 2016
Posts: 6
Fudoh wrote:
a few ms maybe. The linedoubler is working without a full frame buffer. It uses the same doubling algorithm the OSSC uses.


I recently got a Pioneer 402. I messered around a frame of lag both in 240p and 480p.
I highly doubt that monitor has only a few ms of lag.
More over, at the „additional set up“ I turned „MP“ = Motion Picture to „On“.
Otherwise I get some pretty nasty false contouring, especially in Out Run 2006 for example.
But overall, I‘m pretty happy with that beauty.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:03 pm 



Joined: 01 Apr 2015
Posts: 31
For fun I tested 1440i on my a24 via the 68x,, works a charm,, pc games at 1440 look great


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:15 am 


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Ended up snagging a PVM-20M4U for a decent price (well, decent by today's standards).

Really happy with it so far (have only routed Genesis through it ATM). Not really sure what I'm missing next to a 20" BVM. Line count seems the same. Maybe I should remain ignorant because this was much easier on the pocketbook! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:57 am 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 98
HDgaming42 wrote:
Ended up snagging a PVM-20M4U for a decent price (well, decent by today's standards).

Really happy with it so far (have only routed Genesis through it ATM). Not really sure what I'm missing next to a 20" BVM. Line count seems the same. Maybe I should remain ignorant because this was much easier on the pocketbook! :)

congrats, that's a great monitor. you're missing nothing in line count. the highest line count for a Sony 20" class PVM/BVM. it's my go to monitor at the moment.

there's the d24 that's 1000 lines and jvc 1910cg that's 900 lines but i personally think the sony 20" right up there.

if you want 480p-1080i, the 20L5 and d20f1u has the same line count as your 20m4u but it can do higher resolutions.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:25 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 62
davidwhangchoi wrote:
the highest line count for a Sony 20" class PVM/BVM. it's my go to monitor at the moment.


Nah, there's also the BVM 20E1E. The F1E is listed as having 900 TV lines as well.

20-inch display units
BVM-20E1E/20E1A More than 1,000 TV lines
BVM-20F1E/20F1A 900 TV lines
BVM-20G1E/20G1A 800 TV lines

http://image.img-erento.com/1824554/4640381.pdf

I personally did not see a huge difference between a 20M4E, a 20L4 and a 20F1E all side by side though.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:37 pm 


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Posts: 213
Location: Canada
davidwhangchoi wrote:
congrats, that's a great monitor. you're missing nothing in line count. the highest line count for a Sony 20" class PVM/BVM. it's my go to monitor at the moment.

there's the d24 that's 1000 lines and jvc 1910cg that's 900 lines but i personally think the sony 20" right up there.

if you want 480p-1080i, the 20L5 and d20f1u has the same line count as your 20m4u but it can do higher resolutions.


Thanks! I'd love a D24, but they seem to demand about 3-4K CAD nowadays. As much as I'd love to own the best of the best, I don't have a lot of nostalgia for gaming on CRTs beyond 240p/480i. I'm afraid I'd have buyer's remorse!

SuperSpongo wrote:
20-inch display units
BVM-20E1E/20E1A More than 1,000 TV lines
BVM-20F1E/20F1A 900 TV lines
BVM-20G1E/20G1A 800 TV lines

http://image.img-erento.com/1824554/4640381.pdf

I personally did not see a huge difference between a 20M4E, a 20L4 and a 20F1E all side by side though.


Thanks--great info!

EDIT: OK, the menu(s) are in French. A quick google search hasn't turned up the user manual. Anyone able to direct me to a manual, or help me navigate to where I'd change it to English?


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