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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:02 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 1135
davidwhangchoi wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
Sharpening a PVM-20L2?

I'm watching VHS tapes over S-Video on a 20L2 and a JVC TM-H1950cg, so 650 tvl vs 800. But I figure that with such a low fidelity source (spec is 230 tvl) that the difference should be minimal.

Instead the Sony looks significantly softer. It's seemed this way the whole time I've had it but never really looked into trying to sharpen it. So as an idiot I'm asking - what do I need to do?

the 20m2u has only a single pot for both horizontal and vertical focus that is separate not on the flyback.
you need to open up the lid very easy it's like 8 screws (be careful) and adjust the white focus pot pictured here (my 20m2u) :
Image


the pot is glued from factory as Sony tech set it and then sealed it so it doesn't move.
you prob won't get it much better than it is on the 20m2u. i tried adjusting the focus pot and it was set the sharpest it can possible go from factory. but it doesn't hurt to try.

it's hard for your eyes to adjust if you're going from 800 to 600 line tv, esp if you're comparing them side by side. So try not to look at them next to each other. i moved my 20m2u across the room from my other higher line crts and that made a difference.

another tip is to avoid putting it too high contrast and making the colors bloom. it'll look blurry. and last, over component or s-video the chroma is usually set too high vs. using the RGB input which is pretty perfect. the colors can easily look over saturated and bloomy which is also another factor making it look less sharp so dial down the colors over non RGB signals.


Ty for the detailed response. I know in the past I tried to futz with the focus pot but never got it sharper than the factory setting.

I guess I'd describe the issue as color bleed? I don't think it's a misalignment cause iirc it's not blue-left red-right or anything, just that the edge of pixel (like the OSD from the vcr, white text on blue background) doesn't have a sharp cutoff. It's got a rounded appearance.

I'll investigate it some more over RGB as it could just be poor Y/C filtering.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:05 pm 


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Location: Québec City
Einzelherz wrote:
it could just be poor Y/C filtering.

could very well be it. lots of colour bleed in s-video

so far I have the same experiences as you in regards to the focus adjustment on Sony sets : factory setting is always as sharp as it gets for the set, never managed to get it better than that. I guess if some components have drifted then yeah it could then use a tweak


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:44 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
it could just be poor Y/C filtering.

could very well be it. lots of colour bleed in s-video


That's where my confusion comes in though. The same signal psyched through to my JVC doesn't have the same issue. I suppose I could try to add my 14L5 and 150cg to the mix to see if there's any consistency.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:41 pm 


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Location: Québec City
Einzelherz wrote:
That's where my confusion comes in though. The same signal psyched through to my JVC doesn't have the same issue. I suppose I could try to add my 14L5 and 150cg to the mix to see if there's any consistency.

Yeah supposedly the pro JVC sets have better-than-the-competition S-video decoding, which would make troubleshooting more confusing and harder for us to pinpoint the problem here :lol: I guess your suggestion of trying on other Sony sets is a good one!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:47 am 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 41
got this new garo black box, i'm going to try it with a few pvms tonight.
Image

curious if i can get my wii on there with no issues via scart.






bad news. the new Garo exhibits purple screen on the wii over scart to my pvm =/
i tried 2 seperate wii's to make sure it's not the system:
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:53 pm 


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Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 49
Location: Sao Paulo BR
an old but nice BVM review, for reference:
http://seiyuu.info/bvm_d32_review/page1.php


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:45 am 


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Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 152
I just picked up an EDTV Plasma, TH-42PWD7. I had to drive out to Huntington Beach, but it was worth it.

It works great with Groovymame with the 31khz drivers and scanlines or a scanline generator. Since it's 480p, all the line doubled 240p stuff looks fantastic and all the 480p stuff looks nice and crisp. It also downscales 720p, which creates a softer picture, but is still very colorful and looks great.

I've had the 37" version for a few years, but have been unable to find a back up unit, so I figured I'd grab this one and use the 37" as a back up. Or maybe just use the 37" in permanent TATE mode.

It's hard to get good pictures with my phone, I need to invest in a camera.


Image


Image


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:07 am 


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Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1495
I got an old NEC GBM-70 (29" multisync) that doesn't show a picture anymore (turns on though). Last time I used it it worked when it was running warm.

Should I ask money for this or try to give it away for free? Normally the second option would be the clear answer, but considering how sought after these monitors were for a while I don't want to give away free money when it might just need a good servicing.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:11 pm 



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 205
ryu wrote:
I got an old NEC GBM-70 (29" multisync) that doesn't show a picture anymore (turns on though). Last time I used it it worked when it was running warm.

Should I ask money for this or try to give it away for free? Normally the second option would be the clear answer, but considering how sought after these monitors were for a while I don't want to give away free money when it might just need a good servicing.


Never heard of the NEC GBM-70 and I can't seem to find any info on it either, are you sure that is the model number?

I doubt that you will get a lot for it as buying a broken CRT monitor is quite a gamble. Even if someone has the skills to repair the monitor it could still end up being a loss if the required parts are not available anymore, then on the other hand it could end up being an easy fix. Like I said quite a gamble.

I've taken a gamble before on a CRT and luckily it paid off but one of the parts were very difficult to find, I was lucky to find it at all. Even so I only originally paid a fraction of what the monitor would have been worth in working condition as I knew that there was a good chance that it could have been a loss.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:49 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 195
kel wrote:

Never heard of the NEC GBM-70 and I can't seem to find any info on it either, are you sure that is the model number?



https://ifworlddesignguide.com/entry/16 ... tor-gbm-70


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:03 am 


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Joined: 26 Feb 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Frederick, MD
I have a question about color temperature adjustment on a BVM 14F5u. I went into the menu and adjusted my settings to make things a little more blue in the gain. But when I hit enter it pops me back to the previous menu and switches back. When I go back into the color temp manual adjustment menu it switches to what I put in but it never stays outside of that menu. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:15 am 



Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 41
Dochartaigh wrote:
Thought I'd post my newest find, a 30" Panasonic professional multiformat widescreen monitor, the DT-M3050W. Not as high a TV Line count as a BVM-D32, but it actually has a tiny bit larger viewable area! Has something around 550-640 TV Lines depending on the source (kinda confusing on this one, just like the NEC XM29 is 500 or 600 depending on the type of input).

Full CV, YC, YPbPr, RGBS (probably RGsB too), and VGA (RGBHV) hookups in the back, and does 240p, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Need to get the remote delivered to mess with the geometry a bit (want to tweak the very top a hair, 240p and 720p needs to be centered, and want to get the color just a tad less warm), but honestly extremely good for being from 1998. Guy said he got it from Panasonic in NJ before they moved to their new location.

What I'm most excited about is how it seems to be able to save SIXTEEN different geometry settings - that's full H and V centering AND centering (and a couple other settings too) - I'm hoping I can save a preset for all my consoles, and for the first time get EVERY one of them scaled and centered perfectly (otherwise you kinda have to setup your CRT to be OK with most consoles, but perfect with none).

Been playing 480p OG Xbox in widescreen on it all night, and playing around with Xbox 360 over VGA as well (720p looks pretty amazing so far). Going to probably use it mostly for the newer 6th-7th gen consoles with the widescreen games, but probably not much for 4:3 content since the huge PVM-3230 (a 4:3 monitor) is right next to it, but it'll probably see some light gun use at least (especially for PS2 system link games, and Dreamcast 31khz lightgun games).

More pics if anybody wants: https://imgur.com/a/cQHxofh

Image

Image

Image


Dochartaigh, how's this tv treating you? i've been meaning to ask you but been binge playing on the 20m4u after fixing my convergence.

Currently playing Front Mission 3
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:13 am 


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Posts: 544
Dochartaigh wrote:
Thought I'd post my newest find, a 30" Panasonic professional multiformat widescreen monitor, the DT-M3050W. Not as high a TV Line count as a BVM-D32, but it actually has a tiny bit larger viewable area! Has something around 550-640 TV Lines depending on the source (kinda confusing on this one, just like the NEC XM29 is 500 or 600 depending on the type of input).

Full CV, YC, YPbPr, RGBS (probably RGsB too), and VGA (RGBHV) hookups in the back, and does 240p, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Need to get the remote delivered to mess with the geometry a bit (want to tweak the very top a hair, 240p and 720p needs to be centered, and want to get the color just a tad less warm), but honestly extremely good for being from 1998. Guy said he got it from Panasonic in NJ before they moved to their new location.

What I'm most excited about is how it seems to be able to save SIXTEEN different geometry settings - that's full H and V centering AND centering (and a couple other settings too) - I'm hoping I can save a preset for all my consoles, and for the first time get EVERY one of them scaled and centered perfectly (otherwise you kinda have to setup your CRT to be OK with most consoles, but perfect with none).

Been playing 480p OG Xbox in widescreen on it all night, and playing around with Xbox 360 over VGA as well (720p looks pretty amazing so far). Going to probably use it mostly for the newer 6th-7th gen consoles with the widescreen games, but probably not much for 4:3 content since the huge PVM-3230 (a 4:3 monitor) is right next to it, but it'll probably see some light gun use at least (especially for PS2 system link games, and Dreamcast 31khz lightgun games).

More pics if anybody wants: https://imgur.com/a/cQHxofh

Image

Image

Image

damn that's a badass display


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:23 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 820
davidwhangchoi wrote:
Dochartaigh, how's this tv treating you? i've been meaning to ask you but been binge playing on the 20m4u after fixing my convergence.


It's been really good. Got the remote so I could properly center/scale 240p, 480p, 480p widescreen, and 720p as well. Needs a cap or two replaced to have perfect geometry but it's pretty decent as-is.

The biggest detriment I'm having so far is the lack of widescreen content to actually play on it, since this is my first widescreen pro-CRT. Even after hex editing my OG Xbox files for widescreen, there was still quite a few which only play in 4:3. I haven't looked into Dreamcast yet, but I think that has a lot of non-widescreen games as well. PS2's 480p collection of games is pretty slim pickings to begin with, so I haven't seen if any of those rare 480p titles have a widescreen mode either. 720p 16:9 off my Xbox 360 over VGA is nice I will say. I still need to try Wii, and GameCube games played on the Wii some more.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:46 pm 


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Posts: 737
Location: Italy
That Panasonic is really a chimera CRT - a 30" widescreen professional multisync monitor embedded into a consumer TV frame. One of a kind indeed.

Dochartaigh, the number and rarity of CRTs that are in your possession befuddles me. It's like you live in the world of Don Rosa's story Mythological Menagerie, where instead of mythological creatures, rare CRTs keep popping up :)

F-Zero GX will look great on that beast!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:56 pm 


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Location: Québec City
I am also amazed by Dochartaigh's collection :) Just the PVM-3230 has me jealous.

Guessing he is living in a spot where there's lots of broadcast equipment companies (either NY / New Jersey or LA) and has actively been hunting for many years, going at least as far back as 2010. Just that last part gives one a good leg up, it is so much harder to find pro crts now that the word is out. I really wish I knew about them say in 2010. I really wouldn't mind having a PVM-2950 :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:47 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 116
FinalBaton wrote:
I am also amazed by Dochartaigh's collection :) Just the PVM-3230 has me jealous.

Guessing he is living in a spot where there's lots of broadcast equipment companies (either NY / New Jersey or LA) and has actively been hunting for many years, going at least as far back as 2010.


Tons of ex-broadcast equipment floating around Northern NJ. Quite a few of the refurb/resellers are on ebay and craigslist.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:08 pm 


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Location: Québec City
NJRoadfan wrote:
Tons of ex-broadcast equipment floating around Northern NJ. Quite a few of the refurb/resellers are on ebay and craigslist.

Yeah can't count the number of government auctions featuring PVMs, I've seen taking place in NJ. It is just staggering.Sells for quite cheap too. I'd own dozens of PVMs if I lived there :lol:

I've seen one auction featuring 30 PVM-2950Qs, all sold for like $100 each. It's bananas


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:22 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 820
Xer Xian wrote:
That Panasonic is really a chimera CRT - a 30" widescreen professional multisync monitor embedded into a consumer TV frame. One of a kind indeed.


Yeah, the consumer-esque case I don't really care for, but I've been used to PVM and BVM's with lots of buttons on them so I'm a bit biased. Still can't beat a widescreen professional CRT with the same viewable area as a BVM-D32. 600 TV Lines, while nowhere near the sharpness of a BVM, is still a nice sweet spot between being able to do even 480i well (with a bit less flicker than sharper sets), and it still looks good for the HD stuff too.



Xer Xian wrote:
Dochartaigh, the number and rarity of CRTs that are in your possession befuddles me. It's like you live in the world of Don Rosa's story Mythological Menagerie, where instead of mythological creatures, rare CRTs keep popping up :)


FinalBaton wrote:
I am also amazed by Dochartaigh's collection :) Just the PVM-3230 has me jealous.

Guessing he is living in a spot where there's lots of broadcast equipment companies (either NY / New Jersey or LA) and has actively been hunting for many years, going at least as far back as 2010. Just that last part gives one a good leg up, it is so much harder to find pro crts now that the word is out. I really wish I knew about them say in 2010. I really wouldn't mind having a PVM-2950 :mrgreen:



How do you guys even remember what other sets I have lol?

For where and when I found these, I live in the Philly/NYC area, and I actually only started doing this about 2 years ago. Had a great first year and found a ton. Last ~year it's been pretty beat and not for lack of looking; like 40% of them have been broke lately and I overpaid for them. This Panasonic I found was the only bright point. For my collection, I have two 20" multiformat's - a 20L5 and D20. Two SD 20" - 20M4 and 20F1U. The large PVM-3230, and this widescreen Panasonic DT-M3050W. I figure at least one of those will last me until I die.


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