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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:50 pm 



Joined: 01 Apr 2015
Posts: 29
Xer Xian wrote:
The 'uneven raster' thing is not an issue. CRT's don't have discrete pixels and nothing ensures that the video signal/beam will neatly match with the individual phosphors' stripes or dots. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX649ln ... e&t=10m53s


i disagree: looks even on my other BVMs. the picture doesn't do it justice,, it seems to be some sort of banding of some sort when the beam voltage changes,, it happens in HD material also. its mostly obvious on white text,, square win 10 windows etc, always at the left side. I think its something with the neck board or even Deflection board.. I dont know, but having used many BVM's for years now I know there is something not right here


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:24 pm 


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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 726
Location: Italy
Oh, I hadn't noticed the uneven height of the lines.. sorry, I have no idea what might be the cause :/


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:26 am 



Joined: 02 Dec 2017
Posts: 72
Location: PA,USA
So I got onboard to downscale my 360 and DC signal. Got a 500 vsc and an rgb 150xi. The vsc is fed vga, output via bnc RGBS, homemade 9 pin into the interface and then RGBS into a female scart adapter. No dice. Does every setup require a sync stripper? Also my RGB interface makes a clicking noise...


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
So lately I'm getting into old computer hardware. I got my x68000 up and running mostly finally. Found a cheap FM Towns 40H, a friend gave me an Amiga 1200 that's upgraded like crazy, and I built an old DOS machine running an AMD 5x86 133mhz CPU.

I play most of my games on a Mitsubishi XC2930c, and while it's multiscan and takes just about everything, it's WAY WAY too big for my desk, and I'd like something more reasonable for playing on the computers. 14-20" would be nice.

Are there any notable old PC monitor models that support all the resolutions I'm looking for? I'm not finding anything lower than SVGA locally, and while I don't mind looking on eBay or other places on-line, I don't know what to search for exactly.

The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:56 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 107
DejahThoris wrote:
The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.


NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:13 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
NJRoadfan wrote:
DejahThoris wrote:
The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.


NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.


NEC Multisync has been on my search list on eBay and locally for years in hopes of getting a misrepresented XM29. I don't think it's ever returned any CRT result at all (outside of the few used sedan priced XM/XP29's).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:50 pm 



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 180
Location: germany
DejahThoris wrote:
NJRoadfan wrote:
DejahThoris wrote:
The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.


NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.


NEC Multisync has been on my search list on eBay and locally for years in hopes of getting a misrepresented XM29. I don't think it's ever returned any CRT result at all (outside of the few used sedan priced XM/XP29's).


add some of these on your search list. one might pop up, if you are really lucky, on ebay or craigslist

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... nitor-List


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:29 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
svensonson wrote:

add some of these on your search list. one might pop up, if you are really lucky, on ebay or craigslist

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... nitor-List


You're my hero right now. Thanks so much!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:50 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 107
Yeah, the list of "true" multisync CRTs is quite small.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:29 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1294
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
So on my JVC Broadcast monitor i have notice that the screen slants down slightly at the top right of the screen all other corners are straight its just this top right corner that slants down. There also seems to be an ever so slight discolouration in this corner when on a pure white screen, there are no speakers or the like near by and have tried moving the monitor into different positions and it doesn't remedy the issue.

Am i right in thinking getting magnetic/convergence strips and placing them on the rear of the tube in this corner will fix this slanting issue as rotating the tube slightly wont fix the issue as this would then send the other 3 corner out of alignment?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:52 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 722
lettuce wrote:
So on my JVC Broadcast monitor i have notice that the screen slants down slightly at the top right of the screen all other corners are straight its just this top right corner that slants down. There also seems to be an ever so slight discolouration in this corner when on a pure white screen, there are no speakers or the like near by and have tried moving the monitor into different positions and it doesn't remedy the issue.

Am i right in thinking getting magnetic/convergence strips and placing them on the rear of the tube in this corner will fix this slanting issue as rotating the tube slightly wont fix the issue as this would then send the other 3 corner out of alignment?


Correct. Convergence strip(s) are the only way I know to fix this - try canabalizing them from broken CRT's (I'm still looking at a place to buy these at...can't find them anywhere even calling about 50 crt/electronics repair places around me).

The discoloration could be anything from not degaussing it enough, to the yoke moving slightly over time, to damage to the tube itself. A neodymium magnet strategically placed near this area (inside the case usually) can sometimes do wonders.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:03 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1294
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Dochartaigh wrote:
lettuce wrote:
So on my JVC Broadcast monitor i have notice that the screen slants down slightly at the top right of the screen all other corners are straight its just this top right corner that slants down. There also seems to be an ever so slight discolouration in this corner when on a pure white screen, there are no speakers or the like near by and have tried moving the monitor into different positions and it doesn't remedy the issue.

Am i right in thinking getting magnetic/convergence strips and placing them on the rear of the tube in this corner will fix this slanting issue as rotating the tube slightly wont fix the issue as this would then send the other 3 corner out of alignment?


Correct. Convergence strip(s) are the only way I know to fix this - try canabalizing them from broken CRT's (I'm still looking at a place to buy these at...can't find them anywhere even calling about 50 crt/electronics repair places around me).

The discoloration could be anything from not degaussing it enough, to the yoke moving slightly over time, to damage to the tube itself. A neodymium magnet strategically placed near this area (inside the case usually) can sometimes do wonders.


What about those reals of magnetic tap you can get would they have the same effect?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:02 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 722
lettuce wrote:
What about those reals of magnetic tap you can get would they have the same effect?


If you're talking about the color purity problem, the roll of magnet I tried wasn't strong enough.

If you're talking about using that instead of convergence strips, that didn't work for me either - too thick. The key is to slip the super-thin strip convergence strip down between the yoke and the tube itself (that's why there's commonly a ~3" piece of plastic lead attached to the convergence strip). Convergence strips as far as I know aren't magnets either – they're some sort of special ferrous metal or something like that (have the exact type written down somewhere...pretty expensive for a small sheet of it but I may at some point try to make some of my own with it). People have made them with pieces of a snap-off blade type utility knife I've heard... (again, never tried this myself, just researched after I couldn't find any for sale anywhere).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:19 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
NJRoadfan wrote:
DejahThoris wrote:
The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.


NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.


So I actually found the Multisync II (JC-1402HMA) local to me. Will it take full-color signals, or only the 8/16/64 color C/E/VGA digital signals that are available through the switches on the rear? The bit I've found on the internet mentions an analog mode, but doesn't say much of anything about it as far as I can tell.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:24 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 107
It takes analog RGB no problem. The monitor came with a HD-15 VGA to 9-pin adapter originally. It automatically switches between analog RGB and digital TTL RGB (CGA/EGA/MDA), no switches required normally.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:36 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
NJRoadfan wrote:
It takes analog RGB no problem. The monitor came with a HD-15 VGA to 9-pin adapter originally. It automatically switches between analog RGB and digital TTL RGB (CGA/EGA/MDA), no switches required normally.


This one doesn't have the adapter unfortunately. I'm assuming I can make one though!

Thanks for the confirmation!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:51 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 291
DejahThoris wrote:
So lately I'm getting into old computer hardware. I got my x68000 up and running mostly finally. Found a cheap FM Towns 40H, a friend gave me an Amiga 1200 that's upgraded like crazy, and I built an old DOS machine running an AMD 5x86 133mhz CPU.

I play most of my games on a Mitsubishi XC2930c, and while it's multiscan and takes just about everything, it's WAY WAY too big for my desk, and I'd like something more reasonable for playing on the computers. 14-20" would be nice.

Are there any notable old PC monitor models that support all the resolutions I'm looking for? I'm not finding anything lower than SVGA locally, and while I don't mind looking on eBay or other places on-line, I don't know what to search for exactly.

The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.


Why not try a tri-sync arcade monitor? They are still easily available both new and used and you can connect a PC directly through a db15 cable.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:12 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
Classicgamer wrote:
Why not try a tri-sync arcade monitor? They are still easily available both new and used and you can connect a PC directly through a db15 cable.


Lots of reasons, really.

Not enclosed, no compatibility with 8/16/64 color digital signals, not compatible with monochrome text signals (are those called TTL?)

All the readily available ones are not desk sized (29 seems to be the most common, and the cheapest, and I already have 8 or 9 in my storage.)

If it were just for the Sharp and Amiga I'd consider it as they can display just analog RGB out, but running EGA out of the DOS machine would be lost, as would the monochrome mode (which I'm excited to muck about with with the new virtual tap).

I'm comfortable spending a little more to get something that will simply work with all of my old computers and just sit on the desk on top of the Amiga.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:22 pm 



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 107
DejahThoris wrote:
This one doesn't have the adapter unfortunately. I'm assuming I can make one though!

Thanks for the confirmation!


Here are the pinouts for the 9-pin on the monitor.

Code:
Analog Mode:
Pin 1: Red Video
Pin 2: Green Video
Pin 3: Blue Video
Pin 4: H. Sync OR Composite Sync
Pin 5: V. Sync (leave disconnected if using a machine with composite sync)
Pin 6: Red Ground
Pin 7: Green Ground
Pin 8: Blue Ground
Pin 9: Ground


Note: The monitor also supports sync-on-green.

CGA/EGA/MDA TTL video uses a straight thru DB-9 cable, the pin assignments are the same as on the video card.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:27 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
Thank you so much for that, NJRoadfan.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:38 am 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
Just wanted to say I picked up the Multisync II the other day, and made DB9->DB15 adapter today. This thing is brilliant. Thank you to everyone who helped.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:14 am 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 3210
Location: Québec City
Posted this in the misc forum regarding game tips, but I might as well post it here :

this is from my consumer Trinitron

Image

not the greatest pic, but oh well. it does at least give an idea of how pitcure looks on yhat set


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:03 pm 


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Joined: 27 Apr 2015
Posts: 538
Location: Bellingham, WA
Is that the native RGB on that tv?
_________________
Copyright 1987


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:12 pm 


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Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 3210
Location: Québec City
Yep!

It's even more vibrant in person tho, my camera is not very good


Here are a couple more attempts

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:08 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 1119
What model set is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:55 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jul 2017
Posts: 731
Location: Outer Heaven
Picked up a Dell Ultrascan P1110 for $10. Unfortunately it's got a bit of a red tint. It can be compensated for in the menu, but who knows how long it has left now. Otherwise quite a nice monitor. I'll use it until it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:37 pm 


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Posts: 3210
Location: Québec City
Einzelherz wrote:
What model set is it?

a KV-25XBR


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:36 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 41
Hello everyone!

Yesterday i bought a Pioneer PDP v402E with 26k hours on the counter. There is no burn-in, the colours are nice and I realy like this beiutiful monitor, but it has got a issue. When I turn on the OSD, the letters are shimmering on the edges:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jrudv77q88rs ... 2.mp4?dl=0

I think this could be a problem with the power suply, because it is making a buzzing sound. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:59 am 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
Namingway_PL wrote:
Hello everyone!

Yesterday i bought a Pioneer PDP v402E with 26k hours on the counter. There is no burn-in, the colours are nice and I realy like this beiutiful monitor, but it has got a issue. When I turn on the OSD, the letters are shimmering on the edges:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jrudv77q88rs ... 2.mp4?dl=0

I think this could be a problem with the power suply, because it is making a buzzing sound. Any ideas?


I don't have an answer for you, but how does one check the hours? I'd like to on mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:31 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 41
When the monitor is in standby mode, You have to press menu and turn on the monitor, and a sub menu will appear.

I realy hope that my issue is caused by the power suply, and it can be fixed...


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