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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:17 am 



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 285
ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
What gives it away that it is that? What do those numbers by tube type mean if you don't mind me asking.


Various things. I mentioned here that "when using tubes of different makes in their own receivers, some TV manufacturers require from the tube manufacturer a label bearing their name and often omitting the tube manufacturer's name". Here's an example of another Thomson tube of the same family (ADT) that has JVC on the label because it's in a JVC TV (note that JVC isn't a tube manufacturer):

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/File:A68ADT25X01.jpg

And here's a Thomson tube with a Thomson label:

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/File:A68ADT27X05.jpg

Note that these labels as well as yours have EIA 553 which is Thomson's EIA source code.

As mentioned in the first link, a tube with a family code starting with the letter A (ADT in this case) is American (Thomson is a European group but they took over RCA tube business in the 1980s). Toshiba tubes cannot have A as the first letter of the family code.

ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
So if you want to say replace a Egret 2 monitor which has a tube # a68kju96x iirc, the donor has to be that number as well?


That's not even enough because that number is missing the yoke designation which would come after the X so you can have two tubes with that number that have a different yoke. Such is the case of MS9-29 and MS2932.

DejahThoris wrote:
ArcadeOtaku threads state that any Toshiba-branded curved tube should fit the bezel. Whether that's true or not, who knows.


It's not true because there exist flatter (but still curved) Toshiba tubes like those used in Blast Cities. In Europe one of the TV makers that more often uses Toshiba tubes is Grundig. This model has the same tube as a Blast City but a different yoke.

http://hpics.li/afada4e
http://hpics.li/1bda509
http://hpics.li/d51ea31

I've never found a TV with a tube that would fit an Egret 2 (and so far I've opened up nearly 6000 TVs).
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:39 am 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
MKL wrote:
I've never found a TV with a tube that would fit an Egret 2 (and so far I've opened up nearly 6000 TVs).


That's perhaps the last thing I wanted to hear. Hopefully being in the US vs Europe will give me different odds.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:04 am 


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Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 232
Location: United States
That is a lot of tvs, did you work at a recycle place?

From reading up it certainly is possible to change the tube in a Egret 2 and other candy cabinets using a consumer Toshiba tube + transferring the yoke, but not all are created equal it seems like you stated. I've also read a few people getting a Hitachi tube to fit in the rotate mech as well.

It would be cool if someone would document this or do a video on them changing out a bad tube for a consumer one from start to finish.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:41 am 



Joined: 07 Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Does anyone know how the B&O BeoVision Avant is (https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=569)? I can only find people's impressions and pictures of the B&O MX series.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:23 am 



Joined: 20 Dec 2016
Posts: 2
Forgive me if there's a better place to post this, but I figured if there's anywhere to get some advice, it would be here.

About a month back my Sony PVM 20L5 starting having an issue where it would power off after being fed a video signal. I could leave it on and access the menu, as well as service menu, but as soon as I booted up a console it would work for all of 10-15 seconds, then it would turn off. Here's a video of the issue in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0Nz_CPfio

I let it sit for a couple of weeks without testing it, but felt like seeing if it had resolved last night. It powered on for about 15-20 minutes before powering off yet again. Any suggestions where I should go from here? Thanks a bunch to anyone who can point me in the right direction.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:43 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Posts: 39
Has anybody tried making a 4:3 bezel for a 24 inch bvm? I wanna make one but I'm not sure how to temporarily secure it. I was thinking about using suction cups to suck it onto the glass of the screen. What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:39 am 


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Posts: 69
I hope it's ok to repost the issue with my BVM from 2 pages ago. I still have no clue what to look for. Couldn't find a repairment center either :?

Spoiler: show
Yamato wrote:
Hey guys,

I have some trouble with my Sony BVM 20 F1E :?
It worked without flaws for over 3 years now since I got it. But now approximately every 10 to 30 seconds there is a noticeable "cracking" sound with a super short horizontal flicker.
Operating hours are only 22 thousand.

I made a video of the issue. Unfortunately the cracking sound isn't really hearable in the video like it is in real, sorry.

Video

Any ideas how to repair this :?: :?: :?:

Help would be highly appreciated! Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:30 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 182
Yamato wrote:
I hope it's ok to repost the issue with my BVM from 2 pages ago. I still have no clue what to look for. Couldn't find a repairment center either :?

Spoiler: show
Yamato wrote:
Hey guys,

I have some trouble with my Sony BVM 20 F1E :?
It worked without flaws for over 3 years now since I got it. But now approximately every 10 to 30 seconds there is a noticeable "cracking" sound with a super short horizontal flicker.
Operating hours are only 22 thousand.

I made a video of the issue. Unfortunately the cracking sound isn't really hearable in the video like it is in real, sorry.

Video

Any ideas how to repair this :?: :?: :?:

Help would be highly appreciated! Thank you!


Fair chance that it's the flyback on its way out. The cracking sound could be coming either from the spark gaps or the flyback itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:46 pm 



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 180
Location: germany
Yamato wrote:
I hope it's ok to repost the issue with my BVM from 2 pages ago. I still have no clue what to look for. Couldn't find a repairment center either :?

Spoiler: show
Yamato wrote:
Hey guys,

I have some trouble with my Sony BVM 20 F1E :?
It worked without flaws for over 3 years now since I got it. But now approximately every 10 to 30 seconds there is a noticeable "cracking" sound with a super short horizontal flicker.
Operating hours are only 22 thousand.

I made a video of the issue. Unfortunately the cracking sound isn't really hearable in the video like it is in real, sorry.

Video

Any ideas how to repair this :?: :?: :?:

Help would be highly appreciated! Thank you!


not sure but this might be a grounding problem. check if your scart to bnc cable is grounded as it should be. did you recently swap your breakout cable or so?
otherwise it is the flyback like xga said


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:42 am 


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Posts: 69
Thank you both! I'll check it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:22 am 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 193
Location: Sweden
Anyone got any experience with the ITT/Nokia/Digivision series of consumer TV's?

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:47 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 454
Location: San Jose, CA
Mune wrote:
Forgive me if there's a better place to post this, but I figured if there's anywhere to get some advice, it would be here.

About a month back my Sony PVM 20L5 starting having an issue where it would power off after being fed a video signal. I could leave it on and access the menu, as well as service menu, but as soon as I booted up a console it would work for all of 10-15 seconds, then it would turn off. Here's a video of the issue in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0Nz_CPfio

I let it sit for a couple of weeks without testing it, but felt like seeing if it had resolved last night. It powered on for about 15-20 minutes before powering off yet again. Any suggestions where I should go from here? Thanks a bunch to anyone who can point me in the right direction.


I had a 14L5 that would go into random shutdown sometimes, just like your 20L5. I am of the opinion that the L5 series' power supplies are not the best.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:24 pm 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1737
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Mune wrote:
Forgive me if there's a better place to post this, but I figured if there's anywhere to get some advice, it would be here.

About a month back my Sony PVM 20L5 starting having an issue where it would power off after being fed a video signal. I could leave it on and access the menu, as well as service menu, but as soon as I booted up a console it would work for all of 10-15 seconds, then it would turn off. Here's a video of the issue in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0Nz_CPfio

I let it sit for a couple of weeks without testing it, but felt like seeing if it had resolved last night. It powered on for about 15-20 minutes before powering off yet again. Any suggestions where I should go from here? Thanks a bunch to anyone who can point me in the right direction.


I had a 14L5 that would go into random shutdown sometimes, just like your 20L5. I am of the opinion that the L5 series' power supplies are not the best.


Are you sure it wasn't because of some 1sec power outage?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:02 am 


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Posts: 454
Location: San Jose, CA
Lawfer wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Mune wrote:
Forgive me if there's a better place to post this, but I figured if there's anywhere to get some advice, it would be here.

About a month back my Sony PVM 20L5 starting having an issue where it would power off after being fed a video signal. I could leave it on and access the menu, as well as service menu, but as soon as I booted up a console it would work for all of 10-15 seconds, then it would turn off. Here's a video of the issue in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0Nz_CPfio

I let it sit for a couple of weeks without testing it, but felt like seeing if it had resolved last night. It powered on for about 15-20 minutes before powering off yet again. Any suggestions where I should go from here? Thanks a bunch to anyone who can point me in the right direction.


I had a 14L5 that would go into random shutdown sometimes, just like your 20L5. I am of the opinion that the L5 series' power supplies are not the best.


Are you sure it wasn't because of some 1sec power outage?


Is this a joke? I am positive I did not have recurrent 1sec power outages with literally everything else doing fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U0TfGVSVUI
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:27 am 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1737
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Is this a joke?


Why would it be a joke? Not all electronics behave the same, some electronics won't turn themselves off if it's the power outage is only 1 sec, while some others will turn themselves off.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:22 pm 



Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Emerald Hill Zone
I have an NTSC Frontloader NES connected to my BVM-20E1E through the gscartsw_lite. Right now I only have one NES game - a reproduction cartridge containing the original Japanese Super Mario Brothers 2. Whenever I have bright areas on the screen, like right in the beginning of SMB2, the overload LED turns on. This doesn't happen in darker areas like the second level. When I decrease brightness via the knob on the BKM-10R, the LED turns off - but the picture looks really shitty. Is this something to worry about? Are there settings that need adjustment?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:07 pm 


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Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1737
gordon-creAtive wrote:
Is this something to worry about?


Yes and no, that depends if you care about your BVM lifespan or not, most people seem to brush this off as no big deal. On the other hand I try to avoid playing games that make repetitive use of full-white screen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:20 pm 



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 20
I'm actually reposting this because I think the majority of CRT aficionados lurks in this thread:

Inspektor wrote:
Quick question about my SFC setup. It is a 1-Chip-02 console (I opened it and actually looked at the PCB) so I bought this cable.
I hooked it up to my Sony PVM and guess what: no picture. The sound goes through but I get no picture at all. Another thing that seems strange to me is that on the front panel there are 4 leds (PAL, Secam, NTSC and NTSC 4.43) and even if I hook up my PAL-Wii, which works perfectly fine, nothing lights up.


A user asked me to try the Wii without the sync cable, also people said that some 1-chip-02 actually don't support csync at all and this is what I postet yesterday:

Inspektor wrote:
I'm using a Sega Mega Drive power adapter which outputs 9v direct current, could this cause problems?
When I disconnect the sync cable I get no picture at all with the Wii. My breakout cable says "passive" and not "sync seperator", just for the record.

If I disassemble the SFC, what would I need to look for to check if it supports CSYNC or not?


Anyone got a clue about my problem(s)?
Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:50 pm 



Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Emerald Hill Zone
Lawfer wrote:
if you care about your BVM lifespan

Well I certainly do. Is there something I can do to workaround this issue? Like soldering some sort of high-pass filter into the setup?
(What exactly is happening there by the way?)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:57 pm 



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 401
Are you using 75 ohm terminators on your analog input card? Its sounds like maybe you aren't.

Also, can you post some images of what you are seeing?

gordon-creAtive wrote:
I have an NTSC Frontloader NES connected to my BVM-20E1E through the gscartsw_lite. Right now I only have one NES game - a reproduction cartridge containing the original Japanese Super Mario Brothers 2. Whenever I have bright areas on the screen, like right in the beginning of SMB2, the overload LED turns on. This doesn't happen in darker areas like the second level. When I decrease brightness via the knob on the BKM-10R, the LED turns off - but the picture looks really shitty. Is this something to worry about? Are there settings that need adjustment?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:59 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
gordon-creAtive wrote:
Is this something to worry about?


Yes and no, that depends if you care about your BVM lifespan or not, most people seem to brush this off as no big deal. On the other hand I try to avoid playing games that make repetitive use of full-white screen.


If your luma level is in a reasonable range it shouldn't adversely affect the monitor too much, even over time. If you're one of those people that need every screen to be >200cd/m^2, well...


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:49 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 454
Location: San Jose, CA
You should be turning down contrast (gain), not brightness (bias). That will reduce the total brightness in proportion to the image as intended. Brightness (bias) should only be used to adjust black level.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:36 pm 


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gordon-creAtive wrote:
Well I certainly do. Is there something I can do to workaround this issue?


Lower the luminance in the menu until the overload led doesn't light up anymore.


gordon-creAtive wrote:
Like soldering some sort of high-pass filter into the setup?


??? Hell no.


gordon-creAtive wrote:
(What exactly is happening there by the way?)


Nothing special, the luminance is too high and the monitor is warning you about it.


Einzelherz wrote:
If your luma level is in a reasonable range it shouldn't adversely affect the monitor too much, even over time. If you're one of those people that need every screen to be >200cd/m^2, well...


There is no fix for full-white screen or highly bright areas beside lowering the luminance of your monitor, if there was Plasmas and OLED wouldn't be riddled with ABL that you can't turn off. Issue is, if full-white screens are relatively rare in newer games, this used to be relatively common for non-HD games. You will notice that however this is not an issue for Okami (PS2) nor The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess (GameCube) as these games use alot of full-white screens, however the color they use is off-white rather than white, as such the overload led will not light up.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:43 pm 



Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Emerald Hill Zone
Lawfer wrote:
gordon-creAtive wrote:
Well I certainly do. Is there something I can do to workaround this issue?


Lower the luminance in the menu until the overload led doesn't light up anymore.


That worked and still looks good. It's hard to see a difference without a direct comparison.

Lawfer wrote:
gordon-creAtive wrote:
Like soldering some sort of high-pass filter into the setup?


??? Hell no.

Err, no idea how I came up with that. That's of course for frequency.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:53 pm 


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gordon-creAtive wrote:
It's hard to see a difference without a direct comparison.


Like, what do you mean?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:12 am 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
Is there anything special you need to do to save settings in the Maintenance Menu on a D series BVM?

Or is there something akin to a CMOS battery inside?

Every time I set up my monitor it works great until I power it off. Then turning it back on all my settings are back to default.

UPDATE: Service manual shows batteries on BUF and BC boards. No wonder my BC board settings aren't staying put....


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:24 am 


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There is a battery on the far left board that you should pull out and try changing. It’s just a standard 2302 flat battery. That is where your settings are stored


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:56 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Riverside, CA
LDigital wrote:
There is a battery on the far left board that you should pull out and try changing. It’s just a standard 2302 flat battery. That is where your settings are stored

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:45 pm 



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 20
Inspektor wrote:
I'm actually reposting this because I think the majority of CRT aficionados lurks in this thread:

Inspektor wrote:
Quick question about my SFC setup. It is a 1-Chip-02 console (I opened it and actually looked at the PCB) so I bought this cable.
I hooked it up to my Sony PVM and guess what: no picture. The sound goes through but I get no picture at all. Another thing that seems strange to me is that on the front panel there are 4 leds (PAL, Secam, NTSC and NTSC 4.43) and even if I hook up my PAL-Wii, which works perfectly fine, nothing lights up.


A user asked me to try the Wii without the sync cable, also people said that some 1-chip-02 actually don't support csync at all and this is what I postet yesterday:

Inspektor wrote:
I'm using a Sega Mega Drive power adapter which outputs 9v direct current, could this cause problems?
When I disconnect the sync cable I get no picture at all with the Wii. My breakout cable says "passive" and not "sync seperator", just for the record.

If I disassemble the SFC, what would I need to look for to check if it supports CSYNC or not?


Anyone got a clue about my problem(s)?
Thanks!

Nobody got a clue? :(
I checked the PCB again and it seems absolutely flawless, no leakage or anything like that and I checked again, yes it is a 1-Chip-02 console.
About the LEDs indicating the video format, could it be because I only used RGB-cables so far? I read that RGB is RGB, it doesn't care about ntsc or pal thus there is no LED indication on the front panel (just a guess).

But what I would really like to do would be playing super famicom now :D I'll check the console on my HDTV now.

edit: No picture either, just sound. So it has to be the cable and/or the console.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:59 am 


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You can disassemble it and inspect the PCB looking for the c-sync components. Here's a visual comparison of a 01 vs 03 to help you out, courtesy of RetroRGB.


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