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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:41 pm 


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Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs
100 Mega Shock wrote:
Intergraph 28hd96 28 tv

That is fascinating. Shadow mask, famous for being a 1080p monitor and used by John Carmack during the development of Quake. Somebody found 6 of them at a firm specializing in aerial imagery, and has gotten at least one working now. No, I don't have a video, but check out the geometry:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... d_squares/

Anyhow, today's post from me concerns something a lot more prosaic. I've been pondering a ~150 pound Toshiba 36A43 at a local thrift. Trinitron-style, it is only 480i, but supports component. All the detailed service info I've been able to find is an Amazon review criticizing its faceplate design, and saying it can fail when black bars appear onscreen (apparently it has an enhancement meant to detect black bars in content). Anybody have an opinion on this?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:59 am 



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Dude, I'd love to have a 36" SD set again. And 150 lbs is on the much lighter side as far as those things go. I say, as long as the thrift isn't asking too much for it (remember these things can still be had for free all over the place), go for it, absolutely.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:59 am 



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On both my Sony PVM 20L4s I had to remove the anti-glare filter because they were damaged. I want to add a new anti-glare filter because the black levels are much too grey for my liking. Would a simple car anti-glare filter work? I do want to keep the ability to play light-gun games. Any tips for a good anti-glare filter?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:00 am 


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Thread seems a bit dead, but maybe you can help me out with two issues.

- What kind of magnets do I use for corner geometry fixes on tubes? Can I repurpose something from cabinet doors or fridge magnets? Something special I need to order from AliExpress? How do I install them on the tube, sticky tape? Hot glue? That caulk I see everywhere in CRTs?

- I got a Sony 4:3 PC CRT that I'd like to use with modern widescreen consoles. Thing is, I can't turn VSIZE down enough to get proper 16:9 aspect. I've never used it, but is there maybe something I could adjust with that WinDAS software?

H6rdc0re wrote:
On both my Sony PVM 20L4s I had to remove the anti-glare filter because they were damaged. I want to add a new anti-glare filter because the black levels are much too grey for my liking. Would a simple car anti-glare filter work? I do want to keep the ability to play light-gun games. Any tips for a good anti-glare filter?


I'd also be interested in this as I also had to remove a damaged glare filter recently. I remember those anti-glare sprays from back in the day, but I doubt they'll have any effect on the perceived black level.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:37 am 


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ASDR wrote:
Thread seems a bit dead, but maybe you can help me out with two issues.

- What kind of magnets do I use for corner geometry fixes on tubes? Can I repurpose something from cabinet doors or fridge magnets? Something special I need to order from AliExpress? How do I install them on the tube, sticky tape? Hot glue? That caulk I see everywhere in CRTs?

- I got a Sony 4:3 PC CRT that I'd like to use with modern widescreen consoles. Thing is, I can't turn VSIZE down enough to get proper 16:9 aspect. I've never used it, but is there maybe something I could adjust with that WinDAS software?

H6rdc0re wrote:
On both my Sony PVM 20L4s I had to remove the anti-glare filter because they were damaged. I want to add a new anti-glare filter because the black levels are much too grey for my liking. Would a simple car anti-glare filter work? I do want to keep the ability to play light-gun games. Any tips for a good anti-glare filter?


I'd also be interested in this as I also had to remove a damaged glare filter recently. I remember those anti-glare sprays from back in the day, but I doubt they'll have any effect on the perceived black level.


I can’t say any magnets would help with corner convergence other than magnetic strips underneath the yoke.. but for degaussing issues that don’t resolve I would use these on the tube area effected:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/182667593035?h ... SwVJBgUiaB
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:08 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:
I can’t say any magnets would help with corner convergence other than magnetic strips underneath the yoke.. but for degaussing issues that don’t resolve I would use these on the tube area effected:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/182667593035?h ... SwVJBgUiaB


I didn't say a word about convergence or purity / degaussing issues! :D I have a corner geometry problem. Those are corrected with little magnet disks, guess similar looking to what you linked. You can often see them already installed by the factory and they are mentioned in service manuals to correct this very issue. So I'm sure that's the correct fix in principle and placing a magnet in those spots clearly has the desired result of affecting the beam landing in the corners. Just not sure about the best type of magnet and how to attach it.

- The service manual speaks of 'disk magnets' and 'rotatable disk magnets', so I assume that the former has its poles on the top and bottom of the disk while the later has them distributed on the upper/lower part of the disk so that rotating it would make a difference. I don't know which one I'd need.

- You didn't say anything about mounting. Sticky tape? Hot glue?

edit:

Here in this video from RetroTech you can see a disk magnet that seems to be attached with just double sided tape. In another Sony I've recently serviced I can't see any tape but there's white caulk over it. Also, most of the magnets I've seen installed at the factory are quite far away from the yoke while I seem to have to place the magnets I tried quite close. Maybe my magnet is too weak? This is the kind of stuff I'm unsure about and why I'm asking for advice.

Image

Here's also a nice video demonstrating the use of magnets to fix corner geometry issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUXm_BnVRR8&t=2507s

He seems to think those square magnets are more versatile.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:49 am 


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Can anyone tell me what model CRT this might be and if it has component? All I know is that it's a 32" Magnavox of some sort.

Also, in general how heavy are 32" curved glass CRTs? I know the flat glass CRTs are super heavy, but the old curved glass sets seem to run lighter.

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:54 am 



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No idea what model but I wouldn't want a Philips. Are all the Sony Wegas gone? I'd guess this Philips has s-video at best (and s-video is more than acceptable). 32" is big and heavy.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:13 pm 


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eccoboy wrote:
No idea what model but I wouldn't want a Philips. Are all the Sony Wegas gone? I'd guess this Philips has s-video at best (and s-video is more than acceptable). 32" is big and heavy.

They say it has component.

Are Philips that bad? I currently have a 27" Sony but it has some serious convergence issues that I'm tired of playing with and can't seem to fix. Should I wait for another Sony?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:16 pm 


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Yes. Keep your eyes on craigslist for larger sets. Often times ppl just want someone to haul those away and are willing to part with them cheap if you come get it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:56 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
Yes. Keep your eyes on craigslist for larger sets. Often times ppl just want someone to haul those away and are willing to part with them cheap if you come get it.

Ok I'll pass on this one. I don't think I could move it by myself anyway (my max lift is about 130-140 pounds and then only for very short periods).

My goal is to find another 27" Trinitron to replace the one I have (or something similar like a JVC D Series). I guess I'll have to keep on looking. I keep finding 36" Trinitrons but there's absolutely no way I can wrangle one of those into my basement at 250 pounds!

Speaking of JVC, anyone know what this model might be? It looks a bit too old to have component (which I need) so I was going to pass/

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:29 pm 



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Tempest_2084 wrote:
Are Philips that bad?


I don't know about Philips sets in the US, but Philips was one of the few actual manufacturers of (shadow mask) tubes and their tubes were used in popular sets like Bang and Olufsen, Panasonic, Barco, Blaupunkt and Arcade monitors. They're far from bad, in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:54 pm 



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Philips made some excellent tubes. Passing on that may be not smart.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:19 pm 


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strayan wrote:
Philips made some excellent tubes. Passing on that may be not smart.


Someone told me it may be a TS3259C which does NOT have component. I'm guessing the seller mistook composite for component.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:57 pm 



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Tempest_2084 wrote:
strayan wrote:
Philips made some excellent tubes. Passing on that may be not smart.


Someone told me it may be a TS3259C which does NOT have component. I'm guessing the seller mistook composite for component.


Ask the seller for the model# or photo of the back. These TVs should be $20 or less so you can buy a few (if you have space) and then use your favorite. Keep the rest as backup.
If the TV has S-video, that is often plenty good enough. Depends on the console and TV. I have all my stuff on component or RGB but I'll admit it's not really necessary. S-Video can produce a fantastic image.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:21 pm 


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eccoboy wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:
strayan wrote:
Philips made some excellent tubes. Passing on that may be not smart.


Someone told me it may be a TS3259C which does NOT have component. I'm guessing the seller mistook composite for component.


Ask the seller for the model# or photo of the back. These TVs should be $20 or less so you can buy a few (if you have space) and then use your favorite. Keep the rest as backup.
If the TV has S-video, that is often plenty good enough. Depends on the console and TV. I have all my stuff on component or RGB but I'll admit it's not really necessary. S-Video can produce a fantastic image.


All my systems are RGB modded and I use a RGB to Component converter, that's why I need component. Otherwise I'd probably settle for S-Video


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:39 am 



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Ah I see. You've already gone down the rabbit hole. No reason to go back to s-video now.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:20 am 



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Tempest_2084 wrote:
Speaking of JVC, anyone know what this model might be? It looks a bit too old to have component (which I need) so I was going to pass/


That looks like it could be an AV-32320, which does have component inputs. I owned one, and it was really good. It's basically a D-series with smaller speakers and fewer bells and whistles.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:30 pm 


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SamIAm MkII wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:
Speaking of JVC, anyone know what this model might be? It looks a bit too old to have component (which I need) so I was going to pass/


That looks like it could be an AV-32320, which does have component inputs. I owned one, and it was really good. It's basically a D-series with smaller speakers and fewer bells and whistles.

It's close to me so I might go take a look. I honestly can't tell how big it is from that picture. Is it 32" or 27"?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:06 pm 


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looks 32 or bigger to me, but the picture is at a weird angle. AFAIK, USA Phillips/Magnavox from the 90s/early 2000s absolutely does not equal European Phillips B&O level tube quality from the heyday. I believe that the USA market stuff is ultra-cheapo and made in different factories, basically just badged with the name and that's it. they were bottom-of-the-line, lowest cost sets sold in places like Kmart.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:53 pm 


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The JVC does have component and is 32" so I think you're right. I'm going for it. We'll see how good the geometry is.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:58 pm 


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I found the best and easiest way to get answers on this was just to ask the seller to send a pic of the label on the back with the model number.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:00 pm 


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So the JVC was a AV-32340. It was a bit dirty, but in good shape. I was just about to take it down into my game room when I thought that I should test it first to see if it even works. Nope, it won't turn on. The seller swears that it worked the last time he used it, but he used a universal remote to turn it on and not the power button on the TV. He took the TV back and is going to dig around for the remote and let me know if that works. I was so close...

I know the whole "It worked last time I used it" line is a common one, but I honestly do believe him. So I hope he's able to get it working because it was a nice set and amazingly it was light enough for me to handle on my own even though it was 32". A 32" Flat Trinitron would have been out of the question.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:03 pm 


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27" is the max for me to carry alone and even that's a bit rough.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:54 pm 


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Einzelherz wrote:
27" is the max for me to carry alone and even that's a bit rough.

27" Flat is my max but a 32" curved is only a few pounds heavier depending on the model. That's around 115 pounds or so. With the 32" ones it's the size that gets you, you can't wrap your arms around it anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:26 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
looks 32 or bigger to me, but the picture is at a weird angle. AFAIK, USA Phillips/Magnavox from the 90s/early 2000s absolutely does not equal European Phillips B&O level tube quality from the heyday. I believe that the USA market stuff is ultra-cheapo and made in different factories, basically just badged with the name and that's it. they were bottom-of-the-line, lowest cost sets sold in places like Kmart.


The stuff badged as 'Magnavox' or 'PhilipsMagnavox' were the low-end models. I have never seen one in the wild that had component inputs. Models labeled as 'Philips' alone were the good ones, and they rivaled the best JVC and Panasonic tube televisions. My main gaming monitor is a Philips 24pt6341 and it has a fantastic, high-end picture. I could photograph it if you want. This is nothing like a Sylvania, Sanyo, Zenith, or an RCA. I have never found a Toshiba with an image as nice. I also had a European model Philips with RGB-SCART input and similar model nomenclature, and the tube was no better than the one in my USA-market model. It was a very good tube, though.

strayan wrote:
Philips made some excellent tubes. Passing on that may be not smart.


Strayan knows what I'm talking about.

Philips without the Magnavox was absolutely a premium brand.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:51 am 


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Can you tell from that picture if it just says Phillips or Phillips Magnavox? There's something after the Phillips but there's a glare and I can't tell if it's just decorative trim or a word.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:04 am 


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Tempest_2084 wrote:
Can you tell from that picture if it just says Phillips or Phillips Magnavox? There's something after the Phillips but there's a glare and I can't tell if it's just decorative trim or a word.


Pretty sure it's a Phillips Magnavox, there wouldn't be anything after the Phillips otherwise. Most non-Magnavox Phillips I've seen around are silver-y, like Sony WEGAs (though with curved screens instead)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:19 pm 


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What about Memorex? They any good? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:51 pm 


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Tempest_2084 wrote:
Can you tell from that picture if it just says Phillips or Phillips Magnavox? There's something after the Phillips but there's a glare and I can't tell if it's just decorative trim or a word.


The picture unquestionably is of a Magnavox. Expect S-video. It definitely will not have component. It could still be a decent set, but it was never high-end.

Osirus wrote:
What about Memorex? They any good? :lol:


There were many brands that did not actually manufacture televisions, but outsourced the manufacturing and design to other television manufacturers. These TVs are usually not very good, but they can be pretty decent. Memorex, Insignia, RCA, Westinghouse... there are many of them. Sometimes you get a Toshiba tube.

If you want the best stuff, you need to look at only a few brands. Sony, Mitsubishi, JVC, Philips, Panasonic/ProScan, Toshiba and NEC. No one else made truly premium tube television sets with component video. All of those brands kick ass. If it is not on this list then it might be good, but it won't be great. There are some other brands that are good in Europe that we do not have in the United States.


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