Fudoh's ode to old display technology

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Einzelherz
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Einzelherz »

At least in the US if you want component + Trinitron it has to be a flat tube Wega. If you don't need it to be a Sony, the options open up.
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danielretrogamer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by danielretrogamer »

Same as here. I guess S-VIDEO will have to do for the TV, a 34" CRT will be fun for lightgun games.

I recently took some PVMs for a retro gaming booth at an event, just found a picture on my (crappy) phone:
PVM 14L1
Image

Got nine units of this model, basic, but good (and new) enough. They seem to be very common here in Brazil. Some people who worked in broadcast TV back in the day say they used composite or S-VIDEO most of the time, RGB was only used for color correction.

EDIT: one of the monitors in the picture does have RGB/Composite I forgot which model it is.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Dochartaigh »

Anybody know much about these? Always been interested in the Panasonic AG-500R. Not much information on them online whatsoever. I found a service manual for the 500 model, does that have any large differences from the 500R model? (a letter at the end would usually designate which region it's from, but this one seems to use E, A, B, EN for that so I don't know that the 'R" stands for)

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Steamflogger Boss
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Love the aesthetics on that.
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Xyga
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Xyga »

It looks a lot like a microwave. Strange machine, the VHS seems to be playback only, no recording.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Xyga wrote:It looks a lot like a microwave. Strange machine, the VHS seems to be playback only, no recording.
I had the same thought, almost posted it lol. I like the old buttons on that thing in particular. I had a couple pro VCR decks that were similar.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Dochartaigh »

Xyga wrote:It looks a lot like a microwave. Strange machine, the VHS seems to be playback only, no recording.
There's really not much info on them, but they're kinda famous in the CRT circles just because they're cool looking. Not a super high TV Line count or anything either: 280 for a 10" set is just OK in my opinions - maybe just a bit over regular consumer TV's of the time (my 10" Ikigami/JVC 9-3's are a little more at 300 for example, although those are newer models; and my Sony 8" PVM/BVM's can be 450 TVL). The only really enlightening information I found on them was this:

"""This unit is called a Presenter. They had various applications, such as playing educational or training videos, as well as advertising promotions in shops. They are very well made, being designed to withstand heavy commercial use. (Domestic 'Televideo' units are not.) They also did not include a TV tuner and couldn't record. This was supposed to make them less attractive to thieves."""

They also have an auto-looping switch on the back so it can play the same short tape over and over again. I'm curious if the VCR player is also hooked up via Composite or something else (only has Composite RCA's on the back - although one of the non-USA version I think has BNC's instead of RCA plugs).
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by maxtherabbit »

Dochartaigh wrote:
Xyga wrote:It looks a lot like a microwave. Strange machine, the VHS seems to be playback only, no recording.
There's really not much info on them, but they're kinda famous in the CRT circles just because they're cool looking. Not a super high TV Line count or anything either: 280 for a 10" set is just OK in my opinions - maybe just a bit over regular consumer TV's of the time (my 10" Ikigami/JVC 9-3's are a little more at 300 for example, although those are newer models; and my Sony 8" PVM/BVM's can be 450 TVL). The only really enlightening information I found on them was this:

"""This unit is called a Presenter. They had various applications, such as playing educational or training videos, as well as advertising promotions in shops. They are very well made, being designed to withstand heavy commercial use. (Domestic 'Televideo' units are not.) They also did not include a TV tuner and couldn't record. This was supposed to make them less attractive to thieves."""

They also have an auto-looping switch on the back so it can play the same short tape over and over again. I'm curious if the VCR player is also hooked up via Composite or something else (only has Composite RCA's on the back - although one of the non-USA version I think has BNC's instead of RCA plugs).
I feel like the content displayed on those things probably included a lot of "winners don't do drugs"
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orange808
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by orange808 »

maxtherabbit wrote: I feel like the content displayed on those things probably included a lot of "winners don't do drugs"
The original monitor in one of my cabinets had that burned into the screen. :)
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danielretrogamer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by danielretrogamer »

Anyone ever heard of SONY Game Pon TVs, designed to be used mostly with game consoles?
These were available in 14 and 20 inches, had two AV inputs (front and rear) a "GAME PON" button that directly selected the AV input, and an AC OUTLET on the side, to power the game console. I think they were not distributed worldwide, and, what I found most intriguing is that they do not use SONY TRINITRON tubes.
Apparently, they were low-cost TVs, I wonder if SONY made these tubes, or just slapped their logo on it.

Some pictures (Google):
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Dochartaigh »

Are you the same person who posted these on 'The CRT Collective' Facebook group? Was a discussion about those a little bit ago (forget what, if any resolution they came too - but general consensus was they're not Sony Trinitron tubes).
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danielretrogamer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by danielretrogamer »

No, wasn't me. The pictures I posted are from Google/Mercadolivre (Ebay in Brazil).
It seems these were not avaliable in US or Europe. Only found pics and info on South American and Asian websites.
I believe it was meant to be an affodable gaming TV, like, a second TV for the kids/bedroom.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by bobrocks95 »

The vertical curve would rule out them being Trinitrons. Surely Sony bought the tubes from someone else then right? Unless they had a cheaper line of CRTs that weren't aperture grille tubes.
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danielretrogamer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by danielretrogamer »

Just got a 14" Sony "Gamepon". Looks good, like the picture of a JVC or Panasonic CRT. Will post pics later and open the case to check it out, maybe find out who made the tube.
The previous owner bought it new for his daughter with a Sega Master System "20 years ago or more". So Sony really had such "game in bedroom" marketing idea right...
He said she never really liked the Master System, so both items were barely used (the game console was already sold).
So I got this 90s time machine for +-U$10 and it's like new.
Not a Trinitron, but still a good deal.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by andykara2003 »

Xyga wrote:Here's the kind of shadow mask done right I like:
Spoiler
Image
This looks really nice - do you know what model/make this is?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Xyga »

Yup, Thomson 21MG172. Typical affordable little TV from just before the LCD era c.2005
I used to own a 25" with the same kind of tube, it was really different from any typical Trinitron stacked-lines look, more like impressionism, maybe? ^^
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danielretrogamer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by danielretrogamer »

The shadow mask TV pictured above is a "flatscreen" model?

I was talking to a friend the other day (who really likes Ikegami monitors) that some high TVL shadow mask CRTs have a more natural and harmonic look to them.
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andykara2003
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by andykara2003 »

So funny - Thomson were considered trash back in the day & now we're drooling :lol:

Basically for a consumer TV, these days hours of use is more important than make/model.
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Xyga
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Xyga »

It's a curved tube, you can see it on the bottom left of the picture.

The were made late just before flat panels went mainstream so there are still good chances to find some with low hours.
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Mantis128
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Mantis128 »

I think I already asked this awhile back; but did Sony or another good brand ever produce consumer bedroom CRT's around 14 inches with RGB SCART in?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by jd213 »

Sony definitely had 14 inch TVs that had the "AV Multi" input (same connector as on the PlayStation 1/2/3) in Japan at least: https://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Pre ... 1/01-0131/
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Xyga
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Xyga »

In Europe we've had plenty of 13"~14" - and even some less common 19" - from all name brand manufacturers, most if not all with scart RGB indeed.
(I have a 19" Sony that's in terrible condition, hope I can fix it some day)
Those were also very common in VCR combo form.

Thing is, they're also the first ones to have been brought to the recycling dumps...so they've become more difficult to find than the 21"~27".
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by MKL »

14" was by far the most common TV size. Every manufacturer made them until the end of CRT production. This size is called 13" in the USA because the viewable screen diagonal is in fact 13" (34 cm). Everywhere else it's called 14" because the tube face diagonal is 14" (37 cm). A 14" European Sony TV is as rare as ice in Greenland.

19" (18" viewable) is common as a PC monitor size but not as a TV size which became obsolete in the 1980s. A Sony 19" TV cannot be more recent than ~1986.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Xyga »

Yeah I know about the size differences thing, but I don't feel like telling every time.
As for most common size I don't know where you live but in my country 21" was the most common and by far from the early 90's to the end.
Sonys in 13/14" also existed of course, few in numbers but they were definitely available till the end, I've seen some, it's just that people wouldn't put too much money in a small TV anyway so the sales must have been low.

That 19" Sony I have must be a mid-end 90's model, typical fit matte black plastic design of the time, definitely not 80's, it's possible that it's labelled as 20" following the usual pattern, someone simply told me "right it's that elusive 19" but I'll check next time I can (it's stored at my parent's).
It's clearly a bit smaller than the common 21" anyway that's certain. Unfortunately it's in very bad condition, I don't think I'll be able to restore it.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Crayfish »

hitz wrote:Does anyone know what would cause this on my Ikegami TM20-80RH? It only happens with RGBS, if I hookup component and set the RGB/YPBPR to YPBPR there isn't any of the distortion or whatever you would call it. Same with composite being used. It only seems to show up when using RGB no matter what system is used.
Image
Image
I have the exact same issue with my Ikegami, I've been told it is possibly a deep sub menu setting that set to receive sync on green, but I've not been able to find it. Was this issue ever resolved?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by genau_der »

@Fudoh
I was lucky to get a Burosch Con-1. It came without power supply, which isn't a problem, since I have plenty of spare 12V PSUs.
Do you still have yours in your collection and can you tell me whether the plug ist center positive or negative? I don't want to blow it by powering it the wrong way...

Thanks!
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Fudoh »

The one I have left is a unit with an internal PSU, so I just have a hardwired power cable on it that directly plugs into an outlet.

Burosch as a company still exists - I would just send them an email.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by H6rdc0re »

I bought 4 Sony PVM-20L4's last week all in great working condition. 240p looks absolutely wonderful and my old B&O MX7000 can't compete. However 480i looks a little too busy to me. I'm connected to RGB (BNC). I know the jump look is because of the interlaced source but 480i looks much more stable on my MX7000. Am I missing a setting somewhere or is this how 480i looks like on PVM? This is tested on all 4 PVM's by the way so not a single panel issue.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Einzelherz »

It's how it looks. 1. There's more light coming through than in a shadow mask screen and 2. The higher TVL increases this further.

I don't play interlaced stuff on my PVMs for this reason.
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