With all due respect I know how to calibrate bvm geometry and the issue I have with 240p is not correctable with the given maintenance menu adjustments and didn't resolve with the deflection board recap. Like I said the 480p image is pristine and that didn't happen by accident. I will recap the video board in the next few days and report back if it makes a difference but I am doubtful of it.philexile wrote:You have to recap both boards to have a chance of fixing your geometry issue.LDigital wrote:Not yet but I will soon. I doubt that will affect the geometry anyhow
Do you know the history of your display? For instance: are you sure that the deflection module and video board were the originals that came installed with it from the factory – or that other parts were replaced? A factory reset doesn't take those factors into account.
Basically, you can't just do a factory reset after a recap and expect it resolve your problem 100%. You'll have to do a proper calibration to get it to where you want it to be. That involves having the right tools for the job and a signal generator. If that is beyond your skillset and you demand excellence, then you'll need to take it to a service tech.
Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Great, so you know that each signal format needs to be calibrated separately. Do you have access to the service manual for the D20?
You should recap the Video board before getting discouraged.
You should recap the Video board before getting discouraged.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I already have a 20L5 but I can purchase a BVM 20F1U locally with only 11,000 hours for $750. If all I play are 8,16 and 32 bit on them would it be worth picking up? I've already had an offer on my 20L5 for $950 (but i may keep it,dunno) I'm just wondering if the BVM has better pq.
Last edited by bodine1231 on Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Keep the L5 multi sync is awesome
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
If you have the money then keep both. I that BVM and a 20L5 and I think 240p and 480i look slightly better on the BVM while 20L5 does 480p.
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andykara2003
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Do people not find a 20" screen too small for 480p?
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FinalBaton
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
In a desktop scenario it's perfestly fine. Hell, people have been gaming on VGA and SVGA crt monitors and beyond for many decades for MS-DOS and PC gaming.andykara2003 wrote:Do people not find a 20" screen too small for 480p?
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
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Einzelherz
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I have a 14" 480p monitor and it was pretty cool playing Soul Calibur 3 on. You just gotta sit closer.
720p on it however was practically unplayable.
720p on it however was practically unplayable.
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
@bodine1231: you won't be able to appreciate the difference between 800 and 900 lines of resolution with SD games. I'd hold onto the multisync 20l5, unless you have some reason to think it's noticeably past its prime.
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Magicalbottle
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Thanks for the info.MKL wrote:Because it's a monitor and not a TV so it will not have a tuner. And if it were a TV it would be a KV- not a KX-. It has a TV chassis though, the AE1 which was used in the period 1987-90. Interestingly none of the AE1 TVs had a 29" tube (max size back then was 27") so it should be from 1990 or 1991 when Sony switched to 29". Personally, of all Sony TVs the AE1 models have the picture I like the most but I would recommend a set like this only to someone who can service it.Magicalbottle wrote:It does say trinitron video monitor though.
The guy wants 70 eur for it. I'll see how 240p test suite runs, but I doubt it can match my pvm 2950. I know someone who can service pvm's, but it is very costly of course. Still pretty interesting machine. I'll report back in a few weeks once i've seen it.
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andykara2003
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Of course, I didn't consider a desktop scenario. I'd be really interested in trying that myself actually - I just don't have room for any more CRTs!FinalBaton wrote:In a desktop scenario it's perfestly fine.
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
pick up today a 20m2 and a d20f1, but with neogeo aes have this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Pa6U2 ... e=youtu.be
tested first with 240p test suite without problem on dreamcast.
channel 1 is set with slot 6, rgb, ext sync, vcr on or off is the same.
tested directly the cable to monitor and still same.
tested also with other card still same problem
Dont know what is wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Pa6U2 ... e=youtu.be
tested first with 240p test suite without problem on dreamcast.
channel 1 is set with slot 6, rgb, ext sync, vcr on or off is the same.
tested directly the cable to monitor and still same.
tested also with other card still same problem
Dont know what is wrong
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Depends on viewing distance and number of viewers for me. It certainly doesn't bother me playing by myself.andykara2003 wrote:Do people not find a 20" screen too small for 480p?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Ok thanks. I'll just stick with the 20L5 then.Xer Xian wrote:@bodine1231: you won't be able to appreciate the difference between 800 and 900 lines of resolution with SD games. I'd hold onto the multisync 20l5, unless you have some reason to think it's noticeably past its prime.
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Magicalbottle
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I have the exact same problem wth my aes and pvm 2950. Other consoles work fine, the aes has been modded for rgb and stereo. try using a sync stripper.lewolfeur wrote:pick up today a 20m2 and a d20f1, but with neogeo aes have this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Pa6U2 ... e=youtu.be
tested first with 240p test suite without problem on dreamcast.
channel 1 is set with slot 6, rgb, ext sync, vcr on or off is the same.
tested directly the cable to monitor and still same.
tested also with other card still same problem
Dont know what is wrong
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
cant test with a sync stripper for the moment. but its weird there someone have a msv and work normally ( aes and mvs hardware are the same if a not mistake)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcgcSjB4zXA
Also someone who have already a d20 can confirm if in there option this is set to 1 or 0 ?
in set up>extent menu>maintenance>e board> page 2 there is 15k vcr and its set to 0.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcgcSjB4zXA
Also someone who have already a d20 can confirm if in there option this is set to 1 or 0 ?
in set up>extent menu>maintenance>e board> page 2 there is 15k vcr and its set to 0.
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
What is the best option to turn Megaman 9/10 on the wii from 480i to 240p?
1)Emotia only
2)Extron RGB interface only
3)RGB with Emotia or VSC (not sure if VSC accept 480i as input)
1)Emotia only
2)Extron RGB interface only
3)RGB with Emotia or VSC (not sure if VSC accept 480i as input)
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bobrocks95
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Can't help with your specific question, but if you're looking to buy hardware solely for those two games, I want to point out that you can force 480p for them, and they're both now available in Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 on PS4 and PC for $20, which came out today.jhonny_d wrote:What is the best option to turn Megaman 9/10 on the wii from 480i to 240p?
1)Emotia only
2)Extron RGB interface only
3)RGB with Emotia or VSC (not sure if VSC accept 480i as input)
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
How can I force them to 480p?
I would like to get the hardware also as a mean to reduce 480i flicker (mostly ps2)
I would like to get the hardware also as a mean to reduce 480i flicker (mostly ps2)
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bobrocks95
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I was looking for an old thread we had on here about it but couldn't find it. It was just using a specific loader homebrew that would work with it. If you have homebrew installed already it's easy enough to try a couple and see which one it is, sorry I don't remember which one it is.jhonny_d wrote:How can I force them to 480p?
I would like to get the hardware also as a mean to reduce 480i flicker (mostly ps2)
And yeah, if you have other uses, by all means go with some hardware. Just wanted to make sure you weren't dropping a bunch of money for two whole games.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
An Extron RGB interface (only) is all I need to get very convincing 240p out of the PS2's 480i titles in my setup(I need to emphasize ths because certain people on here have reported that this trick doesn't work for them. So to be extra safe I now disclose this, just in case...).jhonny_d wrote:What is the best option to turn Megaman 9/10 on the wii from 480i to 240p?
1)Emotia only
2)Extron RGB interface only
3)RGB with Emotia or VSC (not sure if VSC accept 480i as input)
But sadly I have never tested this method on a Wii So therefore I can't guarantee you that it will work.
My interface is a 580xi
Here's the normal PS2 480i picture :
And here's with the 580xi activated :
As you cansee, it works great in my setup
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I'm one of those people that it didn't work for. I tried with just the RGB 201 and I found the results "ok" - I had to enable ADSP and adjust the position. It worked but required manual tuning. I also tried with the RGB+VSC, but I found the VSC's conversion to 480i unacceptable.
My downscaler of choice is currently the Genius II. One notable benefit of that device over the Super Emotia is that it can permanently reside in your chain - it handles 240p/480i/480p without fuss. The Emotia does a comparable job for 480p downscaling but can't handle 240p/480i, so you may need to switch between signals depending on what system you're using (like say the PS2).
My downscaler of choice is currently the Genius II. One notable benefit of that device over the Super Emotia is that it can permanently reside in your chain - it handles 240p/480i/480p without fuss. The Emotia does a comparable job for 480p downscaling but can't handle 240p/480i, so you may need to switch between signals depending on what system you're using (like say the PS2).
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
This is probably the post you're talking about http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=51976bobrocks95 wrote:I was looking for an old thread we had on here about it but couldn't find it. It was just using a specific loader homebrew that would work with it. If you have homebrew installed already it's easy enough to try a couple and see which one it is, sorry I don't remember which one it is.jhonny_d wrote:How can I force them to 480p?
I would like to get the hardware also as a mean to reduce 480i flicker (mostly ps2)
And yeah, if you have other uses, by all means go with some hardware. Just wanted to make sure you weren't dropping a bunch of money for two whole games.
Thank you all for the suggestions, about MM 9/10 I think I'll go with the 480p hack coupled with a scanline generator
The mimo II looks great but I don't really need a downscaler, I mostly need some progressive scan solution for MM 9/10 and something that will improve 480i titles
I would like to to know if a VSC+RGB combo will help to reduce flicker and improve image quality of 480i native titles that do not require downscaling
edit: I may buy the RGB unit recommended by FinalBaton anyway since it's really cheap
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I have an opportunity to pick up a 20F1U for $675 locally. Only around 20,000 hours on it. I'm going to be looking at it tomorrow. This is my first time looking at a bvm over a pvm. Is this a decent price? Anything specially I should look for/know ahead of time when inspecting it?
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
Do you have 240p test suite on a flash cart for SNES or something you can bring?? Comes in REALLY handy if you do...Nintendude94 wrote:I have an opportunity to pick up a 20F1U for $675 locally. Only around 20,000 hours on it. I'm going to be looking at it tomorrow. This is my first time looking at a bvm over a pvm. Is this a decent price? Anything specially I should look for/know ahead of time when inspecting it?
If not, punch in channels 94-99 (think that's the range) for some test grids and gray ramps - nothing in color though (which is where 240p test suite comes in handy). I would just look around for convergence issues and things like that. Make sure to let it run for like 15+ minutes as well - and see if you can get it from a cold start (i.e. you don't want him letting it warm up beforehand which can hide any potential issues which go away after it's warmed up – you can feel the back fins and see if it was recently turned on because they'll still be warm for a bit.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
To piggyback on what Dochartaigh said, unlike some PVM models, this has convergence adjustments, which makes it more difficult to determine between "is this poorly setup" or "is there an actual issue".Nintendude94 wrote:I have an opportunity to pick up a 20F1U for $675 locally. Only around 20,000 hours on it. I'm going to be looking at it tomorrow. This is my first time looking at a bvm over a pvm. Is this a decent price? Anything specially I should look for/know ahead of time when inspecting it?
As for price, completely depends on where you live, and condition.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
That's a good point. I would go into that maintenance menu and see if the settings are around the default numbers - that in theory (I think - I've honestly never needed to mess with this on my BVM's) should tell you if it's getting out of wack if it had to be adjusted that far off the default values.DejahThoris wrote:
To piggyback on what Dochartaigh said, unlike some PVM models, this has convergence adjustments, which makes it more difficult to determine between "is this poorly setup" or "is there an actual issue".
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
You have no way of knowing what the from factory values were though.
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
How much lag does the Genius II add when deinterlacing? How does the 240p output from 480i look? How is the brightness of the output from 480i sources?strygo wrote:I'm one of those people that it didn't work for. I tried with just the RGB 201 and I found the results "ok" - I had to enable ADSP and adjust the position. It worked but required manual tuning. I also tried with the RGB+VSC, but I found the VSC's conversion to 480i unacceptable.
My downscaler of choice is currently the Genius II. One notable benefit of that device over the Super Emotia is that it can permanently reside in your chain - it handles 240p/480i/480p without fuss. The Emotia does a comparable job for 480p downscaling but can't handle 240p/480i, so you may need to switch between signals depending on what system you're using (like say the PS2).
We apologise for the inconvenience
Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
I'm not an expert on lag, but I haven't perceived any. As for 480i, I can't stand it personally, so the 240p looks much better to me. I haven't done extensive play-testing, but for the 2D games I've tested, I much prefer the 240p. Nothing brightness-related stood out to me either.orange808 wrote:How much lag does the Genius II add when deinterlacing? How does the 240p output from 480i look? How is the brightness of the output from 480i sources?
I've currently got both signals wired up through an Rxi 203, so I can easily choose between them.
I have 2 devices I haven't had time to test: an iScan HD+ and the device you recommended.