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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:21 pm 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 94
Thanks guys may look into that at some point then.

Also weirdly every copy of ff7 I have tried on my PS3 won't run, I have the PAL game on disc but tried downloading the NTSC version and just get a black screen using the redump version.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:23 am 



Joined: 07 May 2014
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Never mind, I forgot that ps1 discs aren't region free on ps3 even though ps2 and ps3 are.

I like the look of 240p but I have to sit around 6 feet away from the screen otherwise the scan lines are too intense for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:12 am 


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jedman wrote:
I have to sit around 6 feet away from the screen otherwise the scan lines are too intense for me.


lmao

that's basically why people want the particular monitor you have. i agree though, i infinitely prefer the look of a ~600 line set to a 900 line one for this reason. the fancy BVM is wonderful to just see what it looks like, but can give you a headache looking at the intensity.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:01 am 


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Location: Québec City
speaking of ~600 tvl sets

I've just ''calibrated'' my PVM-2950, and I gotta make my mea culpa and say that : it has better colour reproduction than I initially thought.

I put the PVM-20L5 next to it as a reference for tweaking the white balance. I don't have a flash cart yet (but ordered one so will make a 2nd pass with the 240p test suite) but I used my usual 3 games that I know well : 1st Sonic 2, to get basic colours right, 2nd Street Fighter Alpha 3, more colours at display here, then 3rd Super Mario WOrld, large portions of lighter colours to cross-reference.

It made a big difference to ''calibrate'' the monitor, it was definitely a bit off. Colours/contrast look quite a lot better now. I gotta say, to my surprise : now it doesn't look worlds apart from the 20L5, colour-wise. Sure the latter is noticeably tighter in some areas and is tighter overall, no question. but the 2950 gets really close when looking quickly at the both of em. One area I isolated where there was a clear advantage for the 20L5, was how bright the lighter-greens get. I couldn't quite get them this bright with the 2950, despite maxing G-DRIVE and ducking other drive/cuts to ''make room for it'' and making sure G_CUT supports it just enough. But I'm still damn impressed with it. SMW is kinda stubborn (it's one of those games that's easy to make look good, but difficult to make look perfect on consumer/pro-sumer/some lower-tier PVMs), but the rest look really amazing. Sonic 2 and SFA3 looked almost identical on the 2950 and 20L5. And I'm not exagerrating one bit

I'm not saying its colours are every bit as accurate as the 20L5 : I'm just saying that I'm surprised at how close it's getting. not quite there, but still very, very nice.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:11 am 



Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 94
vol.2 wrote:
jedman wrote:
I have to sit around 6 feet away from the screen otherwise the scan lines are too intense for me.


lmao

that's basically why people want the particular monitor you have. i agree though, i infinitely prefer the look of a ~600 line set to a 900 line one for this reason. the fancy BVM is wonderful to just see what it looks like, but can give you a headache looking at the intensity.


Yeah it's just very different from the old consumer Sony Trinitron I had as a kid.

Guess it's just too accurate.

The 480p and 720p look amazing with the Wii and PS3 though.

But yeah if I sit too close all I can see is the scanlines at 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:32 am 



Joined: 10 May 2015
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I'm bored AF right now so I looked through some old screenshots I've taken of my D24. These are done on 35mm film. The photochemical process is much more fun than digital.

Kodak Gold 200

Image

Kodak Ektar 100 (pushed 1 stop in development).

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm 



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nissling wrote:
I'm bored AF right now so I looked through some old screenshots I've taken of my D24. These are done on 35mm film. The photochemical process is much more fun than digital.

I like the first one better ('cause I like seeing nearly individual phosphor trios), but the second is definitely more like it looks to the naked eye (unless you're sitting like a foot away from the CRT lol).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:35 pm 



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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I used different lenses too. First is a 105mm macro, second is nifty-fifty. Also I did mess upp the Ektar in development (too cold water and uneven chemicals). Plus I couldn't get rid of all the dust...

Got a roll of Kodak Portra 800 in the fridge that's been there for ages. Maybe it's time to use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:16 pm 


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man I miss chemical photography


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:04 pm 


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCKFAofQSgU

Anyone ever come across one of these Godzilla-sized Barcos before?

Fudoh - tell us what he's talking about :P
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm 


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something really special today. A bluetooth monitor. (camera on cables). Really great. Only works when expanding those special antennas (folding out the monitor's handles). Looks like a handle but is an antenna. Also works for listening to radio at the same time.....


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:29 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
something really special today. A bluetooth monitor. (camera on cables). Really great. Only works when expanding those special antennas (folding out the monitor's handles). Looks like a handle but is an antenna. Also works for listening to radio at the same time.....


Someone on this Facebook CRT group said the same about this video, lol... looks like we've got a joker on our hands, filming that wacky Barco
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:18 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 102
Yeah, he's a friend of mine and started doing these videos to combat boredom in Corona times.
The one in the video is a really rare Barco SCM 3346. It's most comparable to a Barco OCM 3346 Multidata I (he had one of those too). They are both trisync. The main difference between this one and the Multidata II is that the picture settings like size etc. are done via pots on the back, whereas the Multidata II have Buttons in the front to do it digitally. Neither of them has an OSD. The share the same tube type.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:31 am 


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Is there any niche demand for a Micomsoft XAV-2S (RGB -> S-Video or Composite) converter these days?

I found an unused one in a very obscure place.

If I have a need for it these days I can't remember what it was.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:52 pm 



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Albion
Hi guys, got two questions:

Does the Pioneer accept a component signal in some way? I'm using my BVM outputs to send the PS2 signal to the plasma, but can't find a way to make it work with component cables, with RGB it works :?

The other one is about crts and speakers. Changed my setup now one of my speakers is closer to the PVM. I measured around 150 microteslas in that zone, and can't see any patches on the screen, so I assume it might be safe leaving it there, no?

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:24 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
nissling wrote:
I'm bored AF right now so I looked through some old screenshots I've taken of my D24. These are done on 35mm film. The photochemical process is much more fun than digital.

I like the first one better ('cause I like seeing nearly individual phosphor trios), but the second is definitely more like it looks to the naked eye (unless you're sitting like a foot away from the CRT lol).


The second one seems like the contrast is up too high and it's blooming a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:51 am 


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Hi, I was having trouble with my PVM and was looking for some help. Hopefully this is the right place to ask, if not I'd appreciate someone pointing me to the correct place.

I have a PVM 20M4U and when using the RGB BNC connectors, for either RGBS or Component video, I have issues with red.

When using RGBS the red will suddenly become very strong. This generally happens after the PVM has been on for about 10 minutes and on particularly bright white/grey screens, or screens that have a lot of red on them. This issue happens very often when using my unmodded 1chip SNES (perhaps because of the natural brightness of the 1chip?), and happens a little less often with my PC Engine with RGB from the SSDS3.

I haven't used Component video for a while, but what I recall happening there was almost getting what looked like some sort of screen tearing on screens with a lot of red on them. Turning the contrast knob down on the front seemed to make this happen less often.

I've had periods where this almost never happens but it has gotten particularly bad lately. I have experience with soldering if it comes to that, but I haven't worked on a CRT before, much less a PVM which is much more imposing, so I'm not really sure where to start. I'm considering maybe a cracked solder joint (I felt like I could improve it in the past by positioning the BNC connector just right but it doesn't seem to help anymore) or capacitor issue (since it seems to happen more often after it "warms up", though I've turned it on cold and had immediately display the issue before). I kind of doubt it, but is there possibly some sort of setting that could be "adjusting" colors on me?

I've done the simple task of cleaning the BNC connectors to rule that out. Also these issues do not manifest when on Composite or S-Video.

Thank you for any help :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:33 pm 


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An update to my previous post. Not a good one.

I was using the PVM 20M4U today and when plugging in an S-Video cable, with the set on, the PVM shut off and a periodic buzzing noise started coming from inside of the casing like "BZZ... BZZ... BZZ... BZZ" and so on. Turning on the power now shows zero activity from the tube and just starts the buzzing noise back up again.

Possibly a power supply issue? If anyone has some information, resources, or possible diagnosis to share on this I'd be very thankful.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:56 pm 


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Sounds like your tube is shorted. Game over


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:51 am 


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Anyone here who's tried out both the mini-SLG and the SLG3000 on a large CRT presentation monitor in 640x480p VGA (or I suppose a 31kHz/15+31kHz arcade monitor), by any chance?

I got a mini-SLG for cheap some time back and I like it a lot! It's real cool on my 34" presentation monitor, and frickin' incredible on my NEC FE771SB 17" via the two suggested resolutions. I wanna try out a SLG3000 for kicks, but certainly not to the degree of buying a frickin' scanline generator for ~$60 USD after shipping etc! I'm wondering if there's anyone who's tried both devices on large VGA CRT monitors, and if it's even worth checking out in this use case... or if the difference is gonna be pretty negligible.

My gut is telling me it's probably not nearly as drastic a difference compared to using them on LCDs(?)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:19 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 445
Rotanibor wrote:
An update to my previous post. Not a good one.

I was using the PVM 20M4U today and when plugging in an S-Video cable, with the set on, the PVM shut off and a periodic buzzing noise started coming from inside of the casing like "BZZ... BZZ... BZZ... BZZ" and so on. Turning on the power now shows zero activity from the tube and just starts the buzzing noise back up again.

Possibly a power supply issue? If anyone has some information, resources, or possible diagnosis to share on this I'd be very thankful.


Does the noise happen at regular intervals? Does it sound like buzzing, or ticking? If the answers are "yes" and "ticking", then it's probably the TV's overcurrent protection system activating, indicating a short somewhere.

Even if that's not the case, what you're seeing may still be the result of a short, and as a matter of probability, the origin of the short is likely to be a burnt-out transistor. Typical culprits are the horizontal output transistor in the deflection circuitry and any of the MOSFETs used in the power supply. That's where I would start looking.

It's curious that this breakdown coincided with attaching an S-Video cable. Did that provide a path to earth ground that the TV didn't have before? That's about the only thing that would make sense, in terms of that connection actually causing the breakdown.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:51 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Sounds like your tube is shorted. Game over

SamIAm wrote:
Rotanibor wrote:
An update to my previous post. Not a good one.

I was using the PVM 20M4U today and when plugging in an S-Video cable, with the set on, the PVM shut off and a periodic buzzing noise started coming from inside of the casing like "BZZ... BZZ... BZZ... BZZ" and so on. Turning on the power now shows zero activity from the tube and just starts the buzzing noise back up again.

Possibly a power supply issue? If anyone has some information, resources, or possible diagnosis to share on this I'd be very thankful.


Does the noise happen at regular intervals? Does it sound like buzzing, or ticking? If the answers are "yes" and "ticking", then it's probably the TV's overcurrent protection system activating, indicating a short somewhere.

Even if that's not the case, what you're seeing may still be the result of a short, and as a matter of probability, the origin of the short is likely to be a burnt-out transistor. Typical culprits are the horizontal output transistor in the deflection circuitry and any of the MOSFETs used in the power supply. That's where I would start looking.

It's curious that this breakdown coincided with attaching an S-Video cable. Did that provide a path to earth ground that the TV didn't have before? That's about the only thing that would make sense, in terms of that connection actually causing the breakdown.

To add some extra detail, when attempting to power it on, none of the lights in the control area light up either, as if nothing is receiving power.

I've recorded a short video where the buzzing noise can be heard, I'd describe it as short and frequent buzzes that are occurring in a ticking manner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU7oak0V9IU

The subject of the S-Video cable is strange to me as well. I recently received a HAS a few days ago, with the Composite/S-Video hat, and when initially hooking it up via S-Video I was having some slight diagonal scrolling interference. The cable was a previously known working good one but I still decided to try a different cable today to see if it fixed the interference issues. The new cable had no interference, so I decided to double check the original cable but as soon as I plugged it in the set just died. I didn't hear, see, or smell anything burning out. I don't think I bumped any of the BNC connectors in the back giving them a static shock. I checked continuity on the cable and neither of the ground pins seemed to be shorting to Luma or Chroma. I tested the HAS afterwards on another set and it seemed to function fine with zero issues. The HAS itself was hooked up to my Taito F3 multi.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:58 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 445
Thanks for the video.

My guess, as a non-professional, is that this is indeed a case of overcurrent protection and a short somewhere in the system. The horizontal output transistor would be the first thing I'd check, as one of the MOSFETs on the primary side of the power supply going bad and shorting would probably just blow the fuse, meaning you wouldn't hear anything.

I think what happened with your S-Video cable was probably a coincidence. It's not where I'd spend time troubleshooting, as there just isn't that much you can do through a video input to damage a TV so badly that it won't turn on.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:28 am 



Joined: 10 May 2015
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
vol.2 wrote:
The second one seems like the contrast is up too high and it's blooming a bit.

It's not. I went for 1/30th sec of shutter speed to eliminate all risk for flicker. This is essential for capturing CRTs on photochemical film.

The monitor is calibrated to 100cd/m².


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:23 am 


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Question for PAL-based folks:

Were the below pictured adapters (or similar ones with at least enough jacks for RGBS & L+R audio) ever something one could find with relative ease? Or is this a (brilliant) 'specialty' adapter that never really made it to mass-markets?

Image

Would be so useful for the absolutely BOOMING trend of playing old vidya games on PVMs/etc, via some cheap RCA cables & adapters... and a F to F socket. Obviously these were meant to be plugged into the RGB SCART ports of TV's that could handle the full range of analog TV signals via SCART (or set-top boxes), but one of these with a female socket instead would be aces. Good ol' RCA RGBS :P

It's a dang shame nobody has stepped up to the plate and started offering SHART to BNC & L+R audio cables for somewhere in the ~$20 USD range... but can't blame 'em. If people are gonna keep buying 'em for nigh-$40, then git dat money! Plus, I know I know, they are a pain in the ass to make :(
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:02 am 


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you could just divest yourself of shart and join the Holy Order of VGA


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:57 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 102
These adapters were never readily available, as there was no use case for them. Almost no TV at the time supported YPbPr signals via Scart socket. On the other end, no video equipment output RGBS on seperate Cinch leads.

The ones that were available only had Audio L, R and Composite video.

The idea with female to female Scart adapters might not work either as Audio L, R and Composite are directional signals in the Scart standard.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:29 pm 



Joined: 30 Mar 2019
Posts: 47
Yeah, I've seen pics of such 5+ RCA to SCART plugs online, but I don't think I've ever seen one for sale anywhere. God only knows where these pictures came from.

They would be of great help for PVMs or OSSC when you want to run both RGB and YPbPr through the same SCART switcher, for example.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:15 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2018
Posts: 39
kitty666cats wrote:
Question for PAL-based folks:

Were the below pictured adapters (or similar ones with at least enough jacks for RGBS & L+R audio) ever something one could find with relative ease? Or is this a (brilliant) 'specialty' adapter that never really made it to mass-markets?


I'm in Australia and I gave up trying to find these and instead just picked up the Otaku Games switch that has RGBS & L+R audio out and then just attached some RCA to BNC adaptors to some component cables.


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