Fudoh's ode to old display technology

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Namingway_PL
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Namingway_PL »

bobrocks95 wrote:
I can't watch your video on my phone, but that buzzing you're hearing is probably good old fashioned plasma buzzing. I also thought something was wrong when I first got an old plasma.
The buzzing changes pitch/volume based on what's on-screen right?
You are probably right, the buzzing changes pitch depending on what's on the screen. I found a TV repair guy who is familiar with those PDP monitors, and I will bring it over to him after the weekend. But he told me not to give myself too much hope because it could be the screen...

Those PDP v402 monitors are realy old and rare. I own CRT's that are newer ;) I bought mine for cheap, so it wont be a big deal if it's impossible to fix it, but it would be great to have one that's fully functional.
davidwhangchoi
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by davidwhangchoi »

i picked up a PDP-v402 over the holiday weekend dirt cheap and copy of Thunder Force III.

the tv was so old and dirty on the inside. the picture has distortion so i had to open it up and adjust 3 voltage pots due to aging 1st gen panel (dated Feb 2, 2000) and did some cleaning.

Image

Image

Image

finally got it up and running last night!
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Fudoh
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Fudoh »

somehow still great, right? I mean, there's no logical reason to get one. OSSC to an OLED is better by multiple dimensions, but I still like mine....

Image
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by maxtherabbit »

where are you guys getting these things?? I've been searching for a year now never seen a single one :(
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Fudoh
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Fudoh »

I had mine for a long time now, but quite recently there was a seller on local classifieds with a whole dozen. I was very tempted to get a few more (but they weren't this cheap).
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by maxtherabbit »

is it truly lag free? like keeps time with a CRT?
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Fudoh
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Fudoh »

a few ms maybe. The linedoubler is working without a full frame buffer. It uses the same doubling algorithm the OSSC uses.
davidwhangchoi
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by davidwhangchoi »

Fudoh wrote:somehow still great, right? I mean, there's no logical reason to get one. OSSC to an OLED is better by multiple dimensions, but I still like mine....

Image
wow! 4x :shock: i really need a set of those OOS feets/stand for it.
I was curious about the set after reading your review, pictured next to it is the 20G1U (which is the same as the 20F1U) that i got too after reading your post years ago!

i will eventually get a OLED when prices fall a bit more and my Kuro dies.
maxtherabbit wrote:where are you guys getting these things?? I've been searching for a year now never seen a single one :(
it was 40 bucks and 5 minutes away local Craigslist, (a nice thing to grab on the way home from Thanksgiving shopping. he lived near the shopping mall)
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by maxtherabbit »

Fudoh wrote:a few ms maybe. The linedoubler is working without a full frame buffer. It uses the same doubling algorithm the OSSC uses.
yeah I wasn't questioning the linedoubling per se - it seems that plasmas typically have some latency even at their native resolution
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Lawfer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Lawfer »

maxtherabbit wrote:I've been searching for a year now never seen a single one :(
I have been looking for one for like 5 years now, no luck yet, either seller won't ship, won't ship internationally, or is grossly overpriced (like 800 EUR or so).
mdd45
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by mdd45 »

Anyone can help me with this problem on my pal Sony CRT using RGB scart cable at 60htz and 50htz. This not only appears with my Mega Drive console but also with other consoles and especially in light color backgrounds like this blue one. This doesnt appear to be a cable problem because with the same setup on my other crt's everything seems ok.

Edit: It appears at 240p and 480i.

Image
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Jockel
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Jockel »

Try a high quality CSYNC cable.
davidwhangchoi
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by davidwhangchoi »

hey guys,
grabbed a remote off ebay for the pdp-v402 i just got of craigslist:
Image

this remote is a huge back saver to pull up the service menu instead manually constantly reaching for the power and menu located on the side of the TV every time i need to adjust a setting.
My back was killing me the first weekend i got the set trying to pull up the service menu. The combination and timing is tricky to get into the service menu. Felt like i'm playing mario and trying to time a perfect jump and while throwing a fireball.

with the remote, at least i can attempt to pull it off sitting on my couch =)
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Fudoh
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Fudoh »

The combination and timing is tricky to get into the service menu.
do I remember this wrong? Wasn't this one of the easiest combinations ever? In standby just hit menu and within a second hit the power on button? Or am I thinking of something different here?
davidwhangchoi
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by davidwhangchoi »

Fudoh wrote:
The combination and timing is tricky to get into the service menu.
do I remember this wrong? Wasn't this one of the easiest combinations ever? In standby just hit menu and within a second hit the power on button? Or am I thinking of something different here?
w/o the remote, the buttons are on the lower right side of the panel. it's hard to reach where i stationed the plasma on my floor. it was hard for me as i would hold down the power button too long after releasing the menu button which would nullify the service menu and i would have to power it off and try it again... wait a few seconds for the red light to reset, then hold menu then press power to attempt again. often i miss the timing and have to cycle through this step several times.

While in the service menu, if i swap console cables from Genesis Scart cable to Saturn Scart. the Service menu will exit due to a no signal for a split second. Then i would have manually power off the TV and try to get into the service menu again each time. it was a pain while dialing in a good default setting for the vertical and horizontal borders in the service menu. having to switch between consoles back and forth to get a general that spot that works for Saturn, ps1 and Genesis games i was playing. i would then use the regular menu to make fine adjustments to the vertical center.

The games i use have extreme shifted borders. I use R-Types psone and shift the horizontal extremely to the left to get the best results that works for the majority of systems. that game needs a good horizontal center dialed to avoid cutting off horizontal cut the top and bottom of the screen. once that is dialed every other system and game usually matches and borders do not get cut off. next, i'll use Resident Evil one psx to get the good shadows w/o crushing the blacks adjusting the RGB LOWS/CUTS vs. brightness and then RGB highs/drives vs. Contrast. Second game, i use is Raiden project in TATE for both I and II. Raiden II similar to R-Types has to be centered perfectly or the sides will be cut off. Raiden I has a lot of wiggle room.
After those extreme boarder psone games are dialed in, next i'll boot up the Saturn and use Layer Section TATE, Outrun to check and last, boot up the Genesis w/ Streets of Rage 2, Sonic 1, Out Run and Thunder Force III for fine vertical border adjustments just using the regular menu.
Namingway_PL
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Namingway_PL »

davidwhangchoi wrote:
the tv was so old and dirty on the inside. the picture has distortion so i had to open it up and adjust 3 voltage pots due to aging 1st gen panel (dated Feb 2, 2000) and did some cleaning.

Which pots did You have to adjust? I have some issues with mine PDP V402 that I've bought recently, but I have no experience on plasma sets. I also need to open it up and do some cleaning. Do You have any tips? :) How many working hours is on your monitor?
davidwhangchoi
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by davidwhangchoi »

Namingway_PL wrote:
davidwhangchoi wrote:
the tv was so old and dirty on the inside. the picture has distortion so i had to open it up and adjust 3 voltage pots due to aging 1st gen panel (dated Feb 2, 2000) and did some cleaning.

Which pots did You have to adjust? I have some issues with mine PDP V402 that I've bought recently, but I have no experience on plasma sets. I also need to open it up and do some cleaning. Do You have any tips? :) How many working hours is on your monitor?
what issue is the panel exhibiting? i just used a dust blower/compressed air on it.
mine has close to 20,000 hours on it.
Namingway_PL
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Namingway_PL »

Shimmering pixels:


https://youtu.be/ADEIkVQ9xv8


This is most visible in the edges of the letters when the menu is displayed. It's less visible while gaming, but still noticible. My monitor has 26k hours on it, so it might be warn out :/ The colours look good though.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by maxtherabbit »

Namingway_PL wrote:Shimmering pixels:


https://youtu.be/ADEIkVQ9xv8


This is most visible in the edges of the letters when the menu is displayed. It's less visible while gaming, but still noticible. My monitor has 26k hours on it, so it might be warn out :/ The colours look good though.
does that go away after it's been running a while?
Namingway_PL
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Namingway_PL »

No, it does not :/ But I didn't use the monitor much.
davidwhangchoi
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by davidwhangchoi »

Namingway_PL wrote:Shimmering pixels:


https://youtu.be/ADEIkVQ9xv8


This is most visible in the edges of the letters when the menu is displayed. It's less visible while gaming, but still noticible. My monitor has 26k hours on it, so it might be warn out :/ The colours look good though.
thanks for the youtube clip. i had a different issue with a lot of black and blue spots showing up on the screen and pink sparkles which i was able to resolve adjusting a few voltage pots.

if you have a cheap digital multimeter: check your panel sticker indicating panel voltages that's located right on top of the power supply when you open up the TV. It'll give the proper voltages values the panel was set from the factory. These voltages are essential for plasma picture. Later generation plasma panels as they age have self adjusting voltages. Because this is a first generation plasma panel, as this panel ages, the voltages settings will drift away from values set at factory and may lead to picture issues and you may have to manually adjust them to correct picture issues that may crop up. i'm not an expert and this may not be helpful for your case but you should definitely check out Bad caps forums as well. they will be able to answer more specifically if it's unresolvable due to aging or can be adjusted out. I had a few pixels flickering, not as pronounced as your issue, but i was able to adjust out the minor flickering pixels through the voltage pots.

Here's a very simple tutorial to check the voltages on any plasma
https://youtu.be/HMUCNsXkojU


here's my sticker with the factory voltage numbers
it was kinda hard to read it took 45 mins to make out the faded numbers:
Image

for the 1st gen panels of the v402, each will have different voltage factory settings specific per panel labeled but generally close enough to each other. here's my values in case anyone tries to look inside their v402 panel and the factory voltage settings sticker is missing/eligible:

Vsus 173
VoFs 140
Vrst 185

Vh 160
Vcsp 37
Vadr 60



if you open up the v402 panel: facing the back of the TV:
X drive boards are on the left
Y drive boards are on the right
power supply main board is in the center at the top with the voltage sticker right at the top.


the pots i needed to adjust were 3.
VRN (minus reset power supply voltage)
VH (scan IC power supply voltage)
VOFS (offset power supply voltage)

i circled in RED the pots adjusted in the pics.

VRN pot on the X-drive board:
Image

Vh pot on the y-drive:
Image

VoFs pot on the main power supply:
Image
Decoryah
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Decoryah »

I have had Sony BVM-20F1E for 2 years and it has been working alright during that time. I recently got Sony BVM-D24E1WE to replace it. I'm now in the process of setting it up but was faced with strange problem. BVM-D24 did come with a control unit BKM-10R but no cable for it. I then naturally took the cable from BVM-20F1E's control unit but to my surprise it isn't working at all. No button press does anything and no lights come up. I noticed that when testing same cable and control unit now also with BVM-20F1E for comparison control unit's button lights don't light up there either although control unit works otherwise ok. So maybe that cable hasn't been fully working on that monitor either. I mean from watching some videos in Youtube it looks like that some button lights should turn on when monitor is powered up.

So has anyone encountered something similar? Can control unit's cable work with one monitor but not with another? Or could there be something else wrong with BVM-D24? That cable isn't Sony's official one so maybe there lies the problem. Still it seems strange to me that it would work with either monitor.
svensonson
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by svensonson »

Decoryah wrote:I have had Sony BVM-20F1E for 2 years and it has been working alright during that time. I recently got Sony BVM-D24E1WE to replace it. I'm now in the process of setting it up but was faced with strange problem. BVM-D24 did come with a control unit BKM-10R but no cable for it. I then naturally took the cable from BVM-20F1E's control unit but to my surprise it isn't working at all. No button press does anything and no lights come up. I noticed that when testing same cable and control unit now also with BVM-20F1E for comparison control unit's button lights don't light up there either although control unit works otherwise ok. So maybe that cable hasn't been fully working on that monitor either. I mean from watching some videos in Youtube it looks like that some button lights should turn on when monitor is powered up.

So has anyone encountered something similar? Can control unit's cable work with one monitor but not with another? Or could there be something else wrong with BVM-D24? That cable isn't Sony's official one so maybe there lies the problem. Still it seems strange to me that it would work with either monitor.
How does the LEDs (overload,standby and Power) on the D24 behave when you turn on the Monitor? are they lit or flashing?
the same cable that you use on your 20f1e should also work on the D24. Have you treid to reseat the remote board on the D24? Sometimes they just get loose during transport and it is always good to reseat all boards once it is in place
Decoryah
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Decoryah »

In my opinion monitor's LEDs behave quite normally when I turn it on from back switch. I hear degauss sounds and then Standby LED flashes 2 or 3 times. After that screen lights up and it says "Initializing" while Power LED turns solid green. Initializing phase takes few seconds and text disappears from screen. After that I try to press buttons on control unit but nothing works.

I took out and reseated remote board and BKM 21D board but no change unfortunately.
Decoryah
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Decoryah »

I managed to find generic RS-232 cable locally and control unit started working finally. After few hours testing with different consoles I can say that monitor is working as it should. So in conclusion it actually is possible that one cable somehow works with one monitor but not with other.
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Bent or loose pins on that cable? Corrosion? Hopefully all relegated to that particular connector and not the monitor/CU themselves.
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the Goat
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by the Goat »

Decoryah wrote:I managed to find generic RS-232 cable locally and control unit started working finally. After few hours testing with different consoles I can say that monitor is working as it should. So in conclusion it actually is possible that one cable somehow works with one monitor but not with other.
In my experience, some BKM-10r (sony BVM controller) units are finicky about the cables. I ended up buying a second because I could not get the first one I bought to work. I eventually got it working. But it only works with certain cables. The second one is much more promiscuous and hooks up with any old cable I've thrown at her on the first date.
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okerlo
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by okerlo »

Just wanted to play on my Sony PVM a bit, a couple of minutes into the game the colors got washed out, the picture disappeared. I turned it off, turned it on again: no picture.
Checked the scart -> bnc cables, nothing. Where on a scale from "That's normal just leave the crt a bit to recover" to "You're fucked dude, stick to emulation from now on" am I?
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Lawfer
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Lawfer »

Have you tried with another console? Have you tried with another cable?
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okerlo
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Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by okerlo »

I tried another console and I tried my SVideo-Cable instead of the scart-bnc-cable. No luck.
The television recognizes the signal, it ntsc-lamp is glowing, but no picture. :(
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