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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:38 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 45
I bought 4 Sony PVM-20L4's last week all in great working condition. 240p looks absolutely wonderful and my old B&O MX7000 can't compete. However 480i looks a little too busy to me. I'm connected to RGB (BNC). I know the jump look is because of the interlaced source but 480i looks much more stable on my MX7000. Am I missing a setting somewhere or is this how 480i looks like on PVM? This is tested on all 4 PVM's by the way so not a single panel issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:50 am 


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It's how it looks. 1. There's more light coming through than in a shadow mask screen and 2. The higher TVL increases this further.

I don't play interlaced stuff on my PVMs for this reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:54 pm 


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Location: Outer Heaven
https://imgur.com/a/3hwFUuG

Just look at those cute pvms.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:04 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/3hwFUuG

Just look at those cute pvms.

The PVM-411 rack may look cute, but the screen are monochrome.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:15 pm 


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Unseen wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/3hwFUuG

Just look at those cute pvms.

The PVM-411 rack may look cute, but the screen are monochrome.


I am aware, really only took them because they were included.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:45 pm 



Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 125
Was the PVM-L4 only ever released in Europe? Is that why we never got the PVM-L5?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:06 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 45
ross wrote:
Was the PVM-L4 only ever released in Europe? Is that why we never got the PVM-L5?


Yep the L4 was the best PVM ever released in Europe. There were better BVMs though but those are a lot more expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:23 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 78
Something I've always wonedered about my L5-- I don't know if it's normal, but on extremely white screens (Wii, the Dreamcast boot up screen) the screen for a short moment is not a pure white image-- it is a little darker, but then 95% of the time it adjusts itself and seems far more white. Is there a setting I should try looking at, or is this normal behavior for an all white screen?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:41 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
FriendofSonic wrote:
Something I've always wonedered about my L5-- I don't know if it's normal, but on extremely white screens (Wii, the Dreamcast boot up screen) the screen for a short moment is not a pure white image-- it is a little darker, but then 95% of the time it adjusts itself and seems far more white. Is there a setting I should try looking at, or is this normal behavior for an all white screen?


It's not normal for the 4x L5's I've owned. I can try the Dreamcast boot-up screen on my 14L5 I have currently setup, but I've never noticed something like that before.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:45 am 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 78
Dochartaigh wrote:
FriendofSonic wrote:
Something I've always wonedered about my L5-- I don't know if it's normal, but on extremely white screens (Wii, the Dreamcast boot up screen) the screen for a short moment is not a pure white image-- it is a little darker, but then 95% of the time it adjusts itself and seems far more white. Is there a setting I should try looking at, or is this normal behavior for an all white screen?


It's not normal for the 4x L5's I've owned. I can try the Dreamcast boot-up screen on my 14L5 I have currently setup, but I've never noticed something like that before.

I appreciate it. I had originally bought it from Pat and it was serviced by him, so maybe I need to ask him. It's like the... temperature of the white is off before it changes to what it should be. I don't know how else to explain it


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:15 pm 


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I still wouldn't mind stumbling onto a 20L5 some day. My 14L5 never gets any use since I moved to larger screens.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:42 pm 


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FriendofSonic wrote:
Something I've always wonedered about my L5-- I don't know if it's normal, but on extremely white screens (Wii, the Dreamcast boot up screen) the screen for a short moment is not a pure white image-- it is a little darker, but then 95% of the time it adjusts itself and seems far more white. Is there a setting I should try looking at, or is this normal behavior for an all white screen?


Isn't that the ABL?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:02 am 


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Location: Bellingham, WA
Einzelherz wrote:
I still wouldn't mind stumbling onto a 20L5 some day. My 14L5 never gets any use since I moved to larger screens.


Which big screens did you move to and how do you like them?
_________________
Copyright 1987


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:04 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:
I still wouldn't mind stumbling onto a 20L5 some day. My 14L5 never gets any use since I moved to larger screens.


Which big screens did you move to and how do you like them?


I wouldn't call them big, but they're a serviceable size. A Sony 20L2MD and a JVC TM-H1950CG. The 20L2 has a little bit of geometry issues, probably from age, and the JVC has a faulty degauss circuit, but overall I like them a lot. I bought the JVC specifically to have a TATE screen but it was shipped upside down so I had to repair like five traces under the flyback because the PCB cracked.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1190
So I want to play the Dreamcast on a multiformat BVM. The problem is that all resolutions cannot be accessed with one cable. What would be the best option for me? I can't decide btween using the Extron 203 Rxi, Toro/Kuro Box, or the HD Retrovision YPbPr cables.


a) Dreamcast -> Toro Box -> Crosspoint -> BVM
b) Dreamcast -> Extron 203 Rxi -> Crosspoint -> BVM
c) Dreamcast -> HD Retrovision YPbPr cables -> Crosspoint -> BVM


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:42 am 


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GeneraLight wrote:
So I want to play the Dreamcast on a multiformat BVM. The problem is that all resolutions cannot be accessed with one cable. What would be the best option for me? I can't decide btween using the Extron 203 Rxi, Toro/Kuro Box, or the HD Retrovision YPbPr cables.


a) Dreamcast -> Toro Box -> Crosspoint -> BVM
b) Dreamcast -> Extron 203 Rxi -> Crosspoint -> BVM
c) Dreamcast -> HD Retrovision YPbPr cables -> Crosspoint -> BVM

kuro box also has 15/31kHz switch, I'd go with that then use a VGA BNC breakout to the crosspoint


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:04 am 



Joined: 29 Dec 2017
Posts: 2
I just got a 20F1E loving the bvm its a better monitor than my old 14" m2mde that's for sure.. im still setting it up to my tastes though and trying to understand what everything does, don't suppose anyone who has set theirs up with the 240p test suit could post their values on each of the alignments to getting a full picture,, im having a little trouble down the sides, im very anal with getting the picture perfect round the edges..

I got really lucky with this bvm after looking for months for one to show up, usaly they are all down the other end of the country but this guy was 15 mins away, couldn't believe it!!

cheers, davey..


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:41 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
GeneraLight wrote:
So I want to play the Dreamcast on a multiformat BVM. The problem is that all resolutions cannot be accessed with one cable. What would be the best option for me? I can't decide btween using the Extron 203 Rxi, Toro/Kuro Box, or the HD Retrovision YPbPr cables.

a) Dreamcast -> Toro Box -> Crosspoint -> BVM
b) Dreamcast -> Extron 203 Rxi -> Crosspoint -> BVM
c) Dreamcast -> HD Retrovision YPbPr cables -> Crosspoint -> BVM


When using a BVM, you need to add an Extron RGB device into every 480p chain I think (haven't tried that with the HD Retrovision cables personally though). Or at least my D20 and D14 all needed to be run through my Extron RGB 203 Rxi with the SERR dipswitch turned on to get rid of a slight skew on the top of the image. I was using the Toro to output 480p. My PVM-14L5 and 20L5 I believe (not 100% positive - it's been a while) were fine without the Extron RGB.




daveg1 wrote:
I just got a 20F1E loving the bvm its a better monitor than my old 14" m2mde that's for sure.. im still setting it up to my tastes though and trying to understand what everything does, don't suppose anyone who has set theirs up with the 240p test suit could post their values on each of the alignments to getting a full picture,, im having a little trouble down the sides, im very anal with getting the picture perfect round the edges.


Not a single person's settings are going to help you - it's individual to each monitor. Even the stock values listed in some service manuals aren't the settings that the monitors left the factory with in most cases - each was individually tweaked there as well. You just have to figure it out on your own, but if it's bad that mostly means it may need a recap. I usually start off with resetting to stock values (you can reload the individual boards settings in the maintenance menu - password "1111"), and I usually figure if it's REALLY screwed up and far from those default settings (which somebody could very well have changed and messed-up), then it's time for a recap - but of course try to get it as right as you can (and a picture speaks a thousand words if you want to post where it's at now).

Also, you shouldn't ever be seeing the very edges of the test grid, so expanding the image a little bit may very well take care of your OCD in this regard and make it look acceptable. Part of that outside red area of the test grid is the overscan area and is built into most video games and was meant to be cut off so the image could be displayed edge-to-edge on pretty much every consumer TV - so I ALWAYS make sure to at least hide the very outmost red outline of the entire test grid (and when using the 240p test suite on a SNES for example, you probably want it expanded even a little more so it also works for NES, and Genesis, and PS1, etc. etc. etc.).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:27 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1190
Dochartaigh wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
So I want to play the Dreamcast on a multiformat BVM. The problem is that all resolutions cannot be accessed with one cable. What would be the best option for me? I can't decide btween using the Extron 203 Rxi, Toro/Kuro Box, or the HD Retrovision YPbPr cables.

a) Dreamcast -> Toro Box -> Crosspoint -> BVM
b) Dreamcast -> Extron 203 Rxi -> Crosspoint -> BVM
c) Dreamcast -> HD Retrovision YPbPr cables -> Crosspoint -> BVM


When using a BVM, you need to add an Extron RGB device into every 480p chain I think (haven't tried that with the HD Retrovision cables personally though). Or at least my D20 and D14 all needed to be run through my Extron RGB 203 Rxi with the SERR dipswitch turned on to get rid of a slight skew on the top of the image. I was using the Toro to output 480p. My PVM-14L5 and 20L5 I believe (not 100% positive - it's been a while) were fine without the Extron RGB.


When you say I need to add an Extron RGB device into every 480p chain, is the Extron Crosspoint Ultra 450 Plus Matrix Switcher enough or do I need to throw in the Extron RGB 203 Rxi Sync Processor? Like I mentioned earlier in our PMs, I think the only consoles that need the Extron 203 Rxi are the Dreamcast via RGBHV, the PS2 via RGsB, the Wii via RGsB and the original XBox via RGsB/RGBHV. Anything running YPbPr won't need a sync processor to display an image correctly on the BVM I believe, but anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

And is there any reason to get a Toro/Kuro if I have a 203 Rxi? Or any reason to get a 203 Rxi if I have a Toro/Kuro? Do you need both in your setup for 480p and 240p/480i Dreamcast?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:20 pm 


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Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 48
Location: Sao Paulo BR
any tips on painting a PVM metal case?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:45 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
GeneraLight wrote:
When you say I need to add an Extron RGB device into every 480p chain, is the Extron Crosspoint Ultra 450 Plus Matrix Switcher enough or do I need to throw in the Extron RGB 203 Rxi Sync Processor? Like I mentioned earlier in our PMs, I think the only consoles that need the Extron 203 Rxi are the Dreamcast via RGBHV, the PS2 via RGsB, the Wii via RGsB and the original XBox via RGsB/RGBHV. Anything running YPbPr won't need a sync processor to display an image correctly on the BVM I believe, but anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

And is there any reason to get a Toro/Kuro if I have a 203 Rxi? Or any reason to get a 203 Rxi if I have a Toro/Kuro? Do you need both in your setup for 480p and 240p/480i Dreamcast?


An Extron Crosspoint isn't the same as an Extron RGB device (which is used to correct some sync issues with the dipswitches on the back). I definitely use my Extron RGB 203 Rxi for my Dreamcast, Raspberry Pi 3 with RGB hat, even my computer with CRT Emudriver needs it to correct sync on my BVM-D20F1U. Original Xbox is perfect. I think (not positive) that Wii gets a slight skew as well (like really small, and only on some menus if my memory serves...don't really use the Wii that much TBH so i could be imagining this). Never use PS2 in 480p as there's like ~2-3 games in 480p which I own.

For the Toro (I don't own the Kuro) the feature of this you want is the ability to switch from 480p mode to 240p/480i mode for games which aren't compatible in 480p (or otherwise you'll have to switch cables I think). Your mileage may vary, but for me of the 20ish games I have, I'm pretty sure only Bangai-O won't boot in 480p so this might be a moot point for you (similar and opposite to the PS2's super-small 480p library).



danielretrogamer wrote:
any tips on painting a PVM metal case?

Case as in the C-shaped sheet-metal back piece only? Just lightly sand (especially any scratches so they're smoothed out) so the paint had something to stick better to, and paint the entire thing as you'll never match the color for a small area touch-up or whatnot.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:19 pm 


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Location: Sao Paulo BR
Yeah, I'll paint the metal back piece and try to match more or less the original color (will spay paint the whole piece). The original light gray is cool but in some units that I have the paint is all damaged/scratched (thankfully only the case).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:22 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1190
Speaking of PVM/BVM metal casing, I think this is the perfect time to ask: Can the metal casing of PVMs/BVMs rust from moisture or fade from sunlight exposure?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:00 pm 


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Yes, steel can rust from moisture and paint can fade from sunlight.

However paint cannot rust and metal cannot fade.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:06 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Einzelherz wrote:
Yes, steel can rust from moisture and paint can fade from sunlight.

However paint cannot rust and metal cannot fade.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:46 am 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Speaking of PVM/BVM metal casing, I think this is the perfect time to ask: Can the metal casing of PVMs/BVMs rust from moisture or fade from sunlight exposure?

On a long enough time scale, UV can destroy just about anything


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:30 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1190
maxtherabbit wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Speaking of PVM/BVM metal casing, I think this is the perfect time to ask: Can the metal casing of PVMs/BVMs rust from moisture or fade from sunlight exposure?

On a long enough time scale, UV can destroy just about anything

What if it's indirect sunlight from a window that has the curtains covering it?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:33 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Speaking of PVM/BVM metal casing, I think this is the perfect time to ask: Can the metal casing of PVMs/BVMs rust from moisture or fade from sunlight exposure?

On a long enough time scale, UV can destroy just about anything

What if it's indirect sunlight from a window that has the curtains covering it?

probably not a big threat, I'm sure some UV gets absorbed by the curtains


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:01 pm 


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Location: Sao Paulo BR
I got some PVMs and BVMs, now a (cheap) 32" widescreen CRT TV showed up for sale.
I once had a Philips Wide CRT (that was very good) but got no 16:9 monitors at the moment.
It's a LG Flatron RP-32FZ12P with all the "top features" from back then like Progressive scan, Digital comb filter, and it supports up to 1080i
Anyone (still) using a wide CRT TV?
I must say that widescreen BVMs are rare (and very expensive) here in Brazil, so I probably won't be able to get one.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:57 pm 


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Posts: 3027
Location: Québec City
Thought I'd post this here for CRT fanatics to see :

LGR on youtube made a video on an amber monochrome monitor. sadly there's moiré patterns and no close-up shot, but otherwise we get a good look at the thing running some games. the monitor itself looks sexy af too!

Ain't no monochrome like amber-monochrome!


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