extron emotia and MAME

[cyborc]

what are the proper settings to use mame with an extron super emotia? I have been futzing around trying to get cps1 and cps2 games to work but they are either way too small on the screen or end up being interlaced even with the non interlace switch on. I assumed that since cps resolution is 384x224 I should be using a resolution of 768x448? I am using directdraw with hwstretch disabled. also, switch resolutions to fit is enabled.

[gray117]

There's inevitably some degree of interpolation going on - resolution of game projected onto your screen pixels + scanlines, so do bear that in mind if you like to stretch to full screen. I'm actually not sure how the emotia outputs a resolution - whether it fills the available PAL/NTSC field or fits a picture inside of those 'boundaries' ...

Purist wise, yes, your most accurate means will be to double the image before going to the emotia but it sounds like it might be struggling with that? Or is your screen needing resizing? If your screen only needs resizing this actually might be the most accurate solution even if it is not convenient.

If seeking the purist route you may prefer soft15 or an arcadevga and output directly at 384x224 and dismiss the emotia.

... The thing is... the emotia is convenient as long as you avoid constant monitor adjustments. In this manner, I tend to stick to 640*480 input into emotia I can get, center that, and size the screen to that.

I therefore try and get the best 640*480 image I can to the emotia - yes it's not purist but it is convenient. I then maximise the visible play area with the best picture my screen will afford - geometry and convergence wise etc etc. The convenience of this may vary if you also plug many consoles/pcb types into the same screen, but I tend to stick to ps3/360/pc 640x480 or ps2 240p on a vertical screen unless I know I'm playing a particular game/console for a prolonged period.

In general, emulation side, I think you may get on better with direct3d and turn off bilinear filtering - should give you a couple more options and generally better performance [not commonly a concern but more of a compatibility thing].

On the emotia I think only NTSC and underscan [i.e. not stretched] is the only specific settings to be wary of.

[cyborc]

I've had really good luck using soft15khz on an older computer. I wanted to use mame with the emotia on my main pc to save space, but I might have to just stick with the old pc for mame. The emotia works great with the DC. I haven't tried the 360 yet because I need to order a VGA cable.

for some reason the emotia doesn't like the 768x448 linedoubled cps 2 resolution because it always outputs an interlaced image in full screen even with the non interlace switch set. I can get a 240p full screen image with 640x480 but I have to use hardware stretching. I thought I read somewhere that you shouldn't use hardware stretching with the emotia but if it works it works I guess.

[Fudoh]

The Emotia just takes standard VESA timings, usually 640x480. 720x480 works as well in most cases, just give it a try. It's been SOME time since I used MAME with an Emotia, but somebody recently posted the proper settings for current MAME versions. Using Direct2D instead of D3D you should be able to get proper linedoubling (e.g. 224 -> 448) with the rest filled up black. On the other hand CPS with it's wide horizontal resolution might cause a problem here.

[jdubs]

I've had really good luck using soft15khz on an older computer. I wanted to use mame with the emotia on my main pc to save space, but I might have to just stick with the old pc for mame. The emotia works great with the DC. I haven't tried the 360 yet because I need to order a VGA cable.

for some reason the emotia doesn't like the 768x448 linedoubled cps 2 resolution because it always outputs an interlaced image in full screen even with the non interlace switch set. I can get a 240p full screen image with 640x480 but I have to use hardware stretching. I thought I read somewhere that you shouldn't use hardware stretching with the emotia but if it works it works I guess.

Curious if you ever figured out a solution to this problem? I really want to run (shmup)mame out to an Emotia and then on to a PVM with CPS2 games, primarily....

-Jim

[fagin]

It works flawlessly with a PC and MAME..... you just need to know what settings to apply in MAME. This was using a current gen ATI HD7970 GFX card as well. You need to add custom resolutions to your PC, but that's straight forward when you know how to do it.

I did some testing several months back with my BVM from the PC.

[Overkill]

Im not sure, because i don't use mame and PC on my emotia, but if im remember right, for the best output you should use the settings in a 640x480 output:

#
# VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video ddraw
numscreens 1
window 0
maximize 1
keepaspect 1
prescale 1
effect none
pause_brightness 0.65
waitvsync 0
syncrefresh 0
#
# DIRECTDRAW-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
hwstretch 0
#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
triplebuffer 0
switchres 1

If you get a litte screen tearing, change waitvsync 0 to waitvsync 1

[Fudoh]

CPS2 titles refuse to boot up linedoubled to 480p, because there's not enough room for the horizontal resolution to be doubled. Key was to either use a higher resolution (854x480 or similar) or to allow MAME to set the scaling factors differently for vertical and horizontal. I think that's what Fagin eventually did.

[Overkill]

PS: and this:

Stretch Using Hardware = OFF

[fagin]

CPS2 titles refuse to boot up linedoubled to 480p, because there's not enough room for the horizontal resolution to be doubled. Key was to either use a higher resolution (854x480 or similar) or to allow MAME to set the scaling factors differently for vertical and horizontal. I think that's what Fagin eventually did.

I did, but it wasn't great for everything....... it was much easier to create custom resolutions in the end.

[Overkill]

I thing for cps1/2 you can try this resolutions:

320x240
640x400
640x480
800x600

And for tate games:

640x400
640x480
800x600
1024x768

[jdubs]

Thanks guys. I'm waiting on finding an Emotia before I actually try this on my own...but I figured I'd try to get a little ahead of the curve.

I assume that there is no material difference between the VSC / RGB combo vs. the Emotia series in this regard, correct?

-Jim

[Fudoh]

The VSC/interface combo requires the display to play along, while the Emotias output genuine 240p material which can be used on digital displays or upscalers as well.

[Overkill]

Personally i would say:

Extron emotia - perfect 240p signal, but in some games it may have some solarization effect, that i personally hate to see, but the same input can give that effect in some games, and others not.

Extron VSC + Extron RGB = zero solarization, but the image have a little flicker effect, like it's coming from a 480i/576i but with scanlines on it

[fagin]

There is one HUGE risk with the RGB devices though...... there success (i.e. if they work) with many CRT's is very hit and miss.

[jdubs]

Thanks again, guys. I've got a VSC-500 incoming (already have a 203rxi) and will report my success into my 20L5.

Still looking for an Emotia....

-Jim

[jdubs]

Ok, so I got my vsc-500 today. Using it in conjunction with my 203rxi to get a 240p picture. The setup works coming out of my computer!!

Butttt...there is an overall softness to the picture. Not exactly sure what's causing it. Its not too severe but its there....I'm thinking its due to all the cables....2m from computer to vsc, 2m from vsc to 203rxi, and another 2m to my 20l5.

I'm very happy its working!

-Jim

[Fudoh]

3 times 2m/7ft won't matter. The VSCs are just not this easy to setup.

You have to create a test pattern on the PC to make sure you end with with a perfectly aligned mapping of the 480p source to the 480i/240p output. If the conversion is misaligned, it will soften the picture. You also have to set the flicker option to make the VSC output a 240p image (mapped onto a 480i signal) before activating the conversion in the RGB interface. Config menu > filters > flicker > set to 3 (I think). If you run a hi-res image into the VSC you'll immediately see what I mean when you chose the right config.

[jdubs]

3 times 2m/7ft won't matter. The VSCs are just not this easy to setup.

You have to create a test pattern on the PC to make sure you end with with a perfectly aligned mapping of the 480p source to the 480i/240p output. If the conversion is misaligned, it will soften the picture. You also have to set the flicker option to make the VSC output a 240p image (mapped onto a 480i signal) before activating the conversion in the RGB interface. Config menu > filters > flicker > set to 3 (I think). If you run a hi-res image into the VSC you'll immediately see what I mean when you chose the right config.

Thanks Fudoh! I changed feeding the vsc a higher resolution and it helped. How do I go about creating a test pattern to align a 480p source?

-Jim

[jdubs]

Its weird, in addition to the overall softness (which was helped by changing the image's size / shape with the VSC's front controls - better alignment with the scanlines)....there's a very slight image jitter and the colors aren't quite as bright. This is relative to the actual PCB (Super Street Fighter II Turbo and Street Fighter III Third Strike).

-Jim

[Overkill]

Overkill I sent you a private message, but I'll leave this here also for educational reasons:

Perhaps this "solarization" effect could be an issue present in all Extron Emotia units, can anyone confirm this??

Yes, it happens on all Extron emotia, but only in some inputs, the image with blue color is the most common color to see the solarization effect. Some inputs, and some game can work great without any solarization, other games, or even in the same input, can give that effect.

For now, the only downscalers without that "issue" is the Extron VSC+Extron RGB or the MIMO Genius Box, as stated in Fudoh's review

[jdubs]

Personally i would say:

Extron emotia - perfect 240p signal, but in some games it may have some solarization effect, that i personally hate to see, but the same input can give that effect in some games, and others not.

Extron VSC + Extron RGB = zero solarization, but the image have a little flicker effect, like it's coming from a 480i/576i but with scanlines on it

Yes, I can confirm this with the Extron VSC + Extron RGB! The flicker effect is very low...and one can minimize it by playing with the input (to the VSC) resolution.

Overall, though, the image is very good.

-Jim

[Overkill]

The image from the vsc 700 is very good indeed, but its 240p effect is kind artificial compared to the extron emotia. Im waiting to see the MIMO genius box II in action to see if finally i can have the best of both worlds: good solid 240p image, and no solarization effect.

By the way, the MIMO enterprises in Italy have a very bad service with costumers, im waiting for a response of my last mail for several weeks.

[Fudoh]

The Genius II is just perfect. I would be surprised if you found anything you don't like. Sorry to hear about the communication problems - maybe it's the holidays or the temps in general in Italy right now

[Overkill]

hehe, don't know, maybe they are all on some private party with Silvio Berlusconi, haha, just joking.

What happened was: i emailed them to info@mimoenterprises.it, and then few days later received reply from mimogolfi@mimoenterprises.it , i replied again asking for payment invoice and never heard of them again

[Overkill]

Overkill I sent you a private message, but I'll leave this here also for educational reasons:

Perhaps this "solarization" effect could be an issue present in all Extron Emotia units, can anyone confirm this??

PS: if you add an extron RGB to the setup - Extron RGB - Extron Emotia - Monitor, you may be able to decrese the solarization effect with the "level boost" regulator on the extron RGB, a small adjustment will allmost clean the part of the image with the solarization effect. That must be done game by game, there is no standard position for all games.

[Overkill]

Where are you located copados33?

Buying in Ebay.com will give you more options as most of the extron RGB units are sold in EUA. The first one you showed are a more recent model, with DVI, don't know how it gonna behave it the extron emotia, the second one lacks the level boost. You beter stick with models like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-RGB-201- ... 58a150aaf0

Look for models with standard VGA input, and 5 or 6 BNC outputs

[Overkill]

You will use the BNC output, grab a regular standard VGA to 5 BNC (RGB+HV) and then connect just the RGB+H cables to the extron rgb bnc output and then to the VGA input in the emotia. The cable is cheap, but you will only find Male VGA ends, so you will have to grab an VGA to VGA female gender, like this one they are quite cheap on local electronic store, or ebay.

If you want a different setup, im using this on mine:

Console - Extron RGB - VGA switch with a vga female cable going to Extron emotia input, that way i can input up to 4 vga inputs to extron emotia

[Overkill]

One like this will do the job: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Foot-Premium- ... 45f3c65d49