UMSA - Ultimate Scart Adapter for MAME PC and TVs

[ThEmperorIsDead]

I received a UMSA last Friday, and it's is working wonders with Shmupmame via a HD 4890 on my B&O MX4002. However I do have a question regarding use with a Xbox 360 via the official VGA cable at 640×480.
I have been trying it out with a Sony Trinitron KV-21X1U CRT and I get a super sharp image using it to convert VGA to RGB scart but......it has a double image issue. By this I mean the image is squashed and duplicated so there are two on the screen side by side.
I'm hoping there's a simple way to fix this but have not figured it out so far, can anyone help?
Also I have the bad flickering problem with a SLG3000 in the chain but have just read I need to supply the slg 5v power to sort that, so it's just the double screen problem I seem to have.
Any help really appreciated.

[ryu]

I received a UMSA last Friday, and it's is working wonders with Shmupmame via a HD 4890 on my B&O MX4002. However I do have a question regarding use with a Xbox 360 via the official VGA cable at 640×480.
I have been trying it out with a Sony Trinitron KV-21X1U CRT and I get a super sharp image using it to convert VGA to RGB scart but......it has a double image issue. By this I mean the image is squashed and duplicated so there are two on the screen side by side.
I'm hoping there's a simple way to fix this but have not figured it out so far, can anyone help?
Also I have the bad flickering problem with a SLG3000 in the chain but have just read I need to supply the slg 5v power to sort that, so it's just the double screen problem I seem to have.
Any help really appreciated.

isn't the umsa supposed to only wotk with 15,7khz sources? sounds like you're feeding it 31,5khz instead.

[Fudoh]

the UMSA can be used with 31khz signals as well, but it doesn't down convert, so our dead emperor is currently trying to fry his Trinitron.

[ThEmperorIsDead]

Ah shit...image quality looked awesome too, nevermind then, thanks for the warning. TheTrinitronIsDead

[Fudoh]

using a VGA cable on the 360 locks the output to 31khz. To get 15khz you need to use a Scart RGB cable.

[ThEmperorIsDead]

Yes, that was what I did the first time round, only I found via xbox 360 RGB scart that the SLG3000 didn't display the scanlines correctly. Instead I was getting giant double lined scanlines every 2 lines, in my haste I came up with the VGA idea without really thinking it through, I got 480i and 480p mixed up lol. I don't have any scalers or arcade monitors so I'm not well practiced with the different frequencies hence I over looked it.
I realise that I have the deinterlace feature on this Trinitron model but I was trying to over come the shakiness that you get with that (plus the 100 in the corner) by using the slg to overlay the interlaced image but so far no cigar.

[Fudoh]

On a 15khz screen you cannot use emulated scanlines. You can get REAL scanlines by using a 480p VGA to 240p RGB converter like the Emotia or others.

[ThEmperorIsDead]

Nevermind then, I got the Slg mainly for my GDM-FW900. I got a Extron 580xi a while back but had no luck getting the pseudo scanlines from it on my TV's for 480i sources, thought I'd just give these things a try too since I had them anyway.

[futurematt5]

Hi, I have added a FT thread to the trading station forum, as I have one of these UMSA unused, which I would like to trade for a Sync Strike if anyone is interested. Thought I would add to this forum in case anyone has been looking for one of these but not actively on the tradtion forum.

Thanks

[Nam]

Hi, I have added a FT thread to the trading station forum, as I have one of these UMSA unused, which I would like to trade for a Sync Strike if anyone is interested. Thought I would add to this forum in case anyone has been looking for one of these but not actively on the tradtion forum.

Thanks

Matt, I have replied to your request on the trading forum but as I've just joined the forum my post is waiting to be verified by an administrator.

I don't seem to have PM privs yet either.

[arcadeswede]

Hi!

I just purchased the USMA adapter and I can't wait to try it out. I just want to confirm that this is possible to do. See text an pic below:

lettuce wrote:
Bencao74, notice u need a 5v power supply to run this unit, it's there a chance you could use the 5v that pin 9 gives on the VGA side for ATI cards to power the unit rather than have to use an external power supply!?, obviously this would only work for ATI cards??

I`ve used a step up for 5V to 12V for the scart settings. So I preferred to use an external PSU to exclude any issues here. Anyway, might be a nice mod connecting Pin9 vga to 5V. I`ve foresee a molex connector footprint on the PCB. This one carries the 5V, GND and 12V. Just bridge pin9 to the 5V solder point then.

Like this?

[bencao74]

hmmmm, do you know how much current the gc delivers? I 100mA - 150mA should be enough for the UMSA ICs (5V- 12 V booster, plus logic IC).

What about using the molex footprint connector? One could grab the power directly from the PSU.

[arcadeswede]

I think I'll use a USB cabel to power the UMSA. USB ports has about 500 mA. Should be enough right?

[bencao74]

worth a try, but in case it doesn't work use the PC PSU. I just had one case where USB wasn't enough. USB default power is only 100mA. Here`s an interesting article (http://electronics.stackexchange.com/qu ... a-usb-port). Refer also to wikipedia for usb power spec.

Cheers

[lunch_box]

Can anyone please advise if there is a specific 5v psu that I need for this? I.e polarity, barrel size etc
Thanks in advance

[fagin]

Can anyone please advise if there is a specific 5v psu that I need for this? I.e polarity, barrel size etc
Thanks in advance

Positive Tip
Approx. 50mm Diameter (it's large)

[Dude]

I have bought UMSA 5 months ago, i cannot get it to work, it should work with my HD7750 card, if i install 15khz with the right resolution, and the matching dongle 15khz dongle, i get no image, it is far from plug and play.
Pc monitors do not work on 15khz, and you cannot uninstall soft 15khz unless you are running on your videocard while not in safe mode, so you have to uninstall your videocard drivers in safe mode, then then try something else, still nothing, install powerstrip only to find out that the advanced timing options are greyed out, disable screen detection, wich resets with every video driver uninstall, option still greyed out.
I contacted the seller of UMSA told him it is not working, he told me to contact sailorsat, the guy that made soft 15khz... WTF

[Overkill]

I give up on using SailorSat's Soft-15Hz because "CRT_Emu_Driver" is better, and any simple ATI Radeon 9200/9250 (10€ used) will work with it.

From what i remember, you need to use your regular PC monitor to install Solft-15-Hz. First when you execute it, you need to see an frontend with "instal 15Hz" option enabled. If it is not selectable, your Video card isn't compatible.

If successfully installed, you should change the resolution to 640x480, and then restart your computer

After reboot, instal the application - "QuickRes"

If by now you can see a "bee" or other mosquito like on the right down corner of your screen, near the clock. Check how many resolutions are now available. Select one like 320x240 and then change your VGA cable to your UMSA and then to your Scart RGB TV.

[fagin]

I have bought UMSA 5 months ago, i cannot get it to work, it should work with my HD7750 card, if i install 15khz with the right resolution, and the matching dongle 15khz dongle, i get no image, it is far from plug and play.
Pc monitors do not work on 15khz, and you cannot uninstall soft 15khz unless you are running on your videocard while not in safe mode, so you have to uninstall your videocard drivers in safe mode, then then try something else, still nothing, install powerstrip only to find out that the advanced timing options are greyed out, disable screen detection, wich resets with every video driver uninstall, option still greyed out.
I contacted the seller of UMSA told him it is not working, he told me to contact sailorsat, the guy that made soft 15khz... WTF

Your issue has nothing to do with the UMSA and everything to do with your video card and soft15.

[shrunkenmaster]

Hello all, new to the forum. I need some UMSA advice!

I have everything up and running, but I can't get my TV to switch to AV on power-up. I have to power the TV first, THEN power the UMSA. Am I missing something super-obvious here?

I want to be able to turn on the power at the wall (4-way socket with PC/TV/UMSA) so that everything powers up at the same time.

[niall]

Hmm, I have a curious problem feeding a KV-2900 Trinitron's SCART with the UMSA. That probably sounds odd, so let me explain - I'm feeding SCART RGBS signals into an Extron Crosspoint Ultra, via BNC, so I can send any console to any output (one of which is a UMSA feeding the Trinitron).

I can hear audio fine, but while there's no video on screen it has definitely locked onto a video signal (OSD is only stable when there's a signal).

It works fine on a bunch of Loewe SCARTs: both direct from console -> BNC -> UMSA; or via the Crosspoint. Just not the Trinitron. I'm wondering if Trinitron SCARTs aren't fully compliant? And yes this is SCART not JP21, console -> SCART -> Trinitron works great.

Cheers for any ideas guys!

[fagin]

I've had no issues using this with a Sony CRT TV, going from a DSUB source (PC) to the SCART target (Sony CRT).

Are you using a 21pin to 21pin SCART interconnect between the UMSA and Sony TV (overkill but ensures the Sony is receiving all points it requires)?

Other possibility is this an Extron to USMA issue? The sync signal is not amp'd from the UMSA, so it maybe that the Sony expects a specific voltage that it's not getting from the Extron.

One last is that I assume you're externally powering the UMSA correctly?

[niall]

Yep full 21 pin SCART cable, and it doesn't work when the Extron is not in use either - SNES -> SCART -> BNC -> UMSA -> Trinitron. Externally powered UMSA. I'm stumped, as SNES -> SCART -> Trinitron works fine. Time for the multimeter!

[fagin]

I'm going to ask a really stupid question here.... The snes SCART is wired correctly?

[niall]

Well, it's one of RetroGamingCable's, so - sort of I just soldered all of the missing grounds (they only connect one, not even pin 21!) and sadly there's no change. Keep in mind that using their cable direct from SNES to Trinitron works fine, just not via the UMSA (with or without the Extron).

Tried all combinations again just now: SNES -> UMSA -> Loewe works fine, but SNES -> UMSA -> Trinitron no cigar. The UMSA has got to be doing something that the Trinitron doesn't like

EDIT: so multimeter readings are below. I can only think 12v on pin 8 is the culprit, but why 0v on RGB?!?

SCART: R 1.0v G 1.2v B 1.1v S 4.5v pin8 5v
UMSA: R 0.0v G 0.0v B 0.0v S 4.7v pin8 12v

I read on another forum the UMSA takes RGBS with composite sync on H and nothing on V, which is what I'm doing (and works fine on the Loewe). Maybe the UMSA won't send RGB unless another pin has made contact?

I'm stumped.

[fagin]

There is no logic on RGB... It's passthru. Measure the voltage on the RGB lines on the input side of the UMSA.

[niall]

fagin it doesn't sound like you've read my posts - the RGB signal voltages as input to the UMSA are above and are at the expected ~1v levels that come out of the SNES. That's measured on the SCART cable coming out of the SNES, and also at the BNC end of my SCART->BNC cable and BNC->VGA that I'm feeding into the UMSA. I've checked and double-checked every cable and variable in the chain, and my signals go into the UMSA but do not appear to come out.

Looking at the UMSA it doesn't look like RGB is a straight pass-through, I can see RGB signals going through capacitors and resistors before hitting the ICs. Also they describe the product with "UMSA cares about generating the different voltage levels for your suitable SCART configuration (1-3V RGB, 12V for AV, 5V for sync generation)" so I read that as RGB not being a simple pass-through.

I suspect part of the board's logic means that RGB is only being sent when the SCART is inserted (perhaps another pin is involved here?), and that for some reason this Trinitron doesn't like the signals that the UMSA is sending - unlike the other Loewes here which all work fine with the UMSA and the very same cables. The Trinitron is a late 80s model, Made in Japan, and physically and internally it looks like a consumer version of the PVM-2950QM. I can access the SCART traces internally within the set, so next up I'll test RGB levels with the SCART plugged in while audio and sync are working (it's just RGB that seems to be the problem here, audio and sync are both coming through to the Trinitron fine).

I've emailed ArcadeForge with a link to the thread - I'm not sure who makes the UMSA so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, or I'll eventually figure out what's going on and can modify something just prior to it hitting the Trinitron. The other option is I bypass the UMSA and solder up a BNC->SCART cable and go direct, but I was hoping to avoid this as I want the UMSA for both 15kHz RGBS and VGA for GroovyMAME, and I'd rather not have to muck about with custom sync circuits and switches to handle both signal types.

[fagin]

I read your readings perfectly..... it's only now that you've clarified the voltage measuring points (you just stated SCART and UMSA before - SCART to me would be output from the SNES, not entry into the UMSA - which is the important point - and UMSA I assume meant the output stage of the UMSA).

So just for clarity....

What is the RGB line voltages at the output stage of the UMSA when you have the Sony connected and then the other TV connected?

[niall]

What is the RGB line voltages at the output stage of the UMSA when you have the Sony connected and then the other TV connected?

As above, 0.0v for RGB and ~4.5v for sync, on both Trinitron and Loewe. I didn't expect Loewe would be the same, so my assumption that there was a Trinitron issue is wrong. Presumably the Loewe have an amplifier or something on the RGB input, which the Trinitron lacks? So I guess the issue is elsewhere before it hits the UMSA, if I should be seeing the full ~1v on RGB.

And you're right fagin, RGB is a pass-through - traced them last night with the multimeter, so apologies I eye-balled the circuits before and assumed their statement about maintaining 1-3v implied they were part of the circuit.

EDIT EUREKA: I'm feeding everything with an RGB modded Super Famicom Jr that I did myself. In searching for "RGB amp" to try and understand more about the problem, and confirm if the Loewes are just a bit more flexible in the signal they receive, I came across a reference to an SNES Jr RGB mod with amp! I didn't install an amp, I must have followed a bad HOWTO!!! So hopefully that's the issue, I'll post an update after I've tried that. Thanks for your patience

[fagin]

Cool!

Your prognosis us sound. Fingers crossed it works. Let us know.