UMSA - Ultimate Scart Adapter for MAME PC and TVs

[fagin]

I picked it up this morning!!

I think the testing will be somewhat "involved" as I want to try quite a few things.

I'll update the thread (and produce an appropriate YT Video) as soon as I'm at a convenient point.

Big thanks to bencao74 for the review unit.

[fagin]

Well..... nothings ever straight forward in my life!!

First off I wanted to try running MAME in 15hz to my Sony 21" CRT TV.

I have two options for this:
* Use an ArcadeVGA card
* Use SOFT15khz

Initially I wanted to use my main PC which uses two ATI HD5770's in xfire, along with soft15khz. I had read it wasn't going to work, but I'm not one for giving up upon what someone else says!

It didn't work!

However my initial tests proved the UMSA did work as I did get a BIOS splash screen and Windows7 splash screen on my CRT - it just didn't do anything else. So close yet so far.

Next test was with an ArcadeVGA card on a XP test PC rig - worked 100% perfectly with MAME and several other 15khz compatible emulators on my Sony CRT.

Next test was with another XP test PC rig using a soft15khz compatible video card - worked 100% perfectly with MAME and several other 15khz compatible emulators on my Sony CRT.

Final test was with a xbox360 & Extron RGB interface to SCART TV (360->SYNC STRIKE->EXTRON RGB->UMSA->CRT) - this was to get pseudo 240p scanlines (from a 480i source) into my Sony CRT. Whilst this worked, with regards to getting a picture, it didn't give me anything other than an interlaced picture. However, this is my TV causing this and not the UMSA. I know this since I have tried this with my own VGA to SCART lead I had already made up previously. In essence I was hoping the UMSA would resolve the issue I already had, unfortunately however the Sony CRT deals with sync, it's not compatible with the pseudo 240p stuff from the Extron RGB interface.

But there is more than one way to skin a cat to get 240p from a 360.

360 VGA to Extron Emotia to UMSA to CRT = DISCO!!!! Worked perfectly.

And then I still had further thoughts about getting this 480i to 240p conversion to work on this CRT TV, utilising the UMSA and it then came to me.....

360 SCART to XRGB-3 (B1 mode) to Extron Emotia to UMSA to CRT = Orgasm!!! lol

I don't know why I never thought of using this combination before. 360 retro shooters never looked so good.... especially on a 15yr old CRT TV! This chain will work for any 480i signals that you wish to "transfer" to 240p into your CRT TV. Quality of image surpasses the Extron RGB interface, using this type of chain!

In short the UMSA delivers a multitude of possiblities with using a normal CRT TV for that truly awesome 15khz low-res experiece.

The CRT is KING and don't let any scaler nerd tell you anything different lol - although the irony is the last tests actually use the XRGB-3 to great effect.

Another great product from the German boys.

Will get a YT video up soon!

[Fudoh]

I don't want to derail the thread, but, Fagin, tell me what 360 (Scart) > XRGB-3 > Emotia would do better than 360 (VGA) > Emotia in your opinion ? At best it should be "as good"....

[fagin]

I don't want to derail the thread, but, Fagin, tell me what 360 (Scart) > XRGB-3 > Emotia would do better than 360 (VGA) > Emotia in your opinion ? At best it should be "as good"....

It doesn't....

Using a progressive source image (non interlaced - i.e. VGA) gives a rock solid 240p image from the Emotia. Using RGB SCART (interlaced) gives a very slight (and I mean slight) shimmer to some text (when passing through the XRGB-3 in B1). Obviously though 360 (SCART) > XRGB-3 (B0) > Emotia was 100% stable (as you would expect).

However... using the 480i chain (XRGB-3 in B1) through the Emotia - this was alot better (more stable) than using 480i through Extron RGB Interface.

[Fudoh]

That's ok then - - I just assumed "Orgasm" was higher than "Disco" on your rating scale

[bencao74]

Great review! Thanks Fagin!

I never tested it with the xbox360. so this was new for me

[fagin]

That's ok then - - I just assumed "Orgasm" was higher than "Disco" on your rating scale

Clearly there should be a difference betwen "Disco" and "Orgasm", but like most men, I got carried away in the moment.

I was just over the moon that I could actually get 480i -> 240p working on my Sony CRT.

[fagin]

Great review! Thanks Fagin!

I never tested it with the xbox360. so this was new for me

Just to underline.....

Assuming your CRT works effectively with a Extron RGB Interface (and CRT's can, it's all to do with how your TV treats/handles the signal), this means you can get an effective 480i->240p on your CRT (by using the UMSA) for any console that has a SCART RGB output. You don't need a Emotia and XRGB-3.

In isolation it gives "back" the retro to those 480i PS2 titles that should have been 240p!

Like most of your products, this is simply "plug & play", and I'm not aware of any properly wired DSUB15->SCART leads available - they are normally custom build. So you might as well buy your product.

Fudoh says the "King is Dead".... I say "The King never died...... CRT is the Daddy!".

Who would of thought it..... in many ways I have gone complete circle in this stuff. When I went out and bought a Sony CRT for testing, which cost me under £5, it does beg the question..... in some areas.

Fudoh - I'm going to buy you a CRT, spray it pink and deliver it for nothing!

[lettuce]

Who would of thought it..... in many ways I have gone complete circle in this stuff. When I went out and bought a Sony CRT for testing, which cost me under £5, it does beg the question..... in some areas.

Either spend god knows how much on a decent scaler/scanline generator/syncer or just get a CRT from eBay for a £1.....that's a tough one

I will defo be getting one of these when there available!

So does this mean i can play Gradius V on my PS2 in 240p if using the UMSA n Extron?

[fagin]

Video now up -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAzsmufA ... ature=plcp

[KBZ]

are there any benefits to this over using a UVC?

[fagin]

IMO the UMSA is better (if you take something like the emulation to CRT TV specifically)....... the UVC will have to deal with a 640x480 signal from MAME, effectively making the output 320x240. It won't be as accurate as using a resolution (from either an ArcadeVGA or SOFT15) that is more accurately matched for each type of ROM. Perhaps this is being too anal about it though.

I'm not sure of the technicalitys as I've never compared side by side with say my Extron Emotia. I'm just highlighting the logic as I understand it.

Obviously with the UVC you also need to wire up a SCART lead.... the UMSA already has this built in.... but the UVC also gives you the ability to go 480p from say the 360 to your CRT - it's swings and roundabouts.

To be fair these two products are quite different from each other - as is the price point, with the UMSA being alot cheaper.

[Fudoh]

the UVC will have to deal with a 640x480 signal from MAME, effectively making the output 320x240. It won't be as accurate as using a resolution (from either an ArcadeVGA or SOFT15) that is more accurately matched for each type of ROM. Perhaps this is being too anal about it though.

with an UVC (or Emotia) you have to make sure that MAME is set to linedoubling. For example: a game with 224 lines has to scaled to 448 lines (with the rest being filled up with black), not to 480p lines. Once you do this, using an UVC (or Emotia) is just as good as using Soft15khz.

[fagin]

Didn't realise your could do that.

[Paradroid]

Fascinating reading so far...

When I get my unit, I'll be posting a review that focuses on testing the USMA with GroovyMAME to provide native 15 kHz arcade resolutions and refresh rates to my SCART TVs.

One thing is for sure: the USMA is a whole lot neater looking than your average DIY VGA to SCART table.

Nice work fagin!

[KBZ]

the UVC will have to deal with a 640x480 signal from MAME, effectively making the output 320x240. It won't be as accurate as using a resolution (from either an ArcadeVGA or SOFT15) that is more accurately matched for each type of ROM. Perhaps this is being too anal about it though.

with an UVC (or Emotia) you have to make sure that MAME is set to linedoubling. For example: a game with 224 lines has to scaled to 448 lines (with the rest being filled up with black), not to 480p lines. Once you do this, using an UVC (or Emotia) is just as good as using Soft15khz.

Are these settings available in any mame frontend?

[fagin]

Fascinating reading so far...

When I get my unit, I'll be posting a review that focuses on testing the USMA with GroovyMAME to provide native 15 kHz arcade resolutions and refresh rates to my SCART TVs.

One thing is for sure: the USMA is a whole lot neater looking than your average DIY VGA to SCART table.

Nice work fagin!

Thanks Jochen for the nice work mate!

[Fudoh]

Are these settings available in any mame frontend?

If Fagin can't work it out, I'll check my old MAME machine sometime over the next days....

[fagin]

Are these settings available in any mame frontend?

If Fagin can't work it out, I'll check my old MAME machine sometime over the next days....

Cheeky bastard!

Fudoh enlightened me by informing the correct usage of PRESCALE and Direct2D. I informed him back I couldn't be arsed to try it!

[bencao74]

thanks guys

I nearly missed this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAzsmufAKDA

Have fun

Jochen

[lovecraft]

bencao74, check your pm's mate !

[mesmer]

Would love to see results of a test with this device:

And connected to an SD CRT via component. This would be the way we would be able to use this in the US.

[fagin]

It will be all down to how the TV handles the input. The device you refer to is only a Transcoder, so that won't be your issue. I have such a unit but no SD CRT with component for your specific test.

[Paradroid]

Hey guys. I finally got around to writing about my experience with the UMSA. Very cool device! Check out my review here.

Happy to update my review in order to answer any questions people may have about this clever little gadget.

[emphatic]

Hey guys. I finally got around to writing about my experience with the UMSA. Very cool device! Check out my review here.

Happy to update my review in order to answer any questions people may have about this clever little gadget.

Your blog is AWESOME.

[Paradroid]

Your blog is AWESOME.

Thanks for checking it out!

[bencao74]

Great Review and Great Blog. Enjoyed reading your posts for hours

[bencao74]

http://www.videogameperfection.com/cons ... -swapping/

BuckoA51 found a way to use UMSA it never was intended

[blizzz]

So, now that I'll pick up a CRT this weekend I'm thinking about connecting my PC to it. I'll be building a new low-noise Mini ITX PC this month, which would be ideal for this. The only problem is that I don't have space for a dedicated GPU as my capture card will take the PCIe slot.

My plan: Ivy Bridge CPU with integrated graphics (HD2500 or HD4000) > UMSA > B&O MX4000.
I couldn't find any information about current Intel GPUs. Maybe someone from this forum could test it for me?

My gaming PC uses two HD6950s, but those aren't compatible from what I found. I've still got some old GPUs (an HD4870, Radeon x1950 Pro and Radeon 9800 Pro) which should all be compatible, but I'd prefer a small ITX cube over old bulky hardware.

[Overkill]

You can use that HD4870 with the "Calamity CRT Emu_drivers", its a modified version of the original ATI driver with the ability to run 120 more resolutions. That way you can play all the major retrogames titles, and still have a nice video card for some modern video game.