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 Post subject: TFT/LCD Monitos, 2D games & Shoot Em Ups ... 60FPS/ 120H
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:55 am 


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Hello.
I want to buy a TFT monitor.
I’ll be using it mainly for games, 3D PC games & 2D emulators & Shooters of course.

At the moment I’m using a 17” EIZO CRT F55S.
When I play 2D Emu games, MAME, NEOGEO, Capcom, SNES, genesis, etc…which are at 60FPS, I have to set the display at 120HZ & Vsync on or Triple Buffering, or else the video will appear dithered & there will be jerky-tearing effects in horizontal/vertical scrolling. (Example: the Intro in Super Contra III, the horizontal scrolling letters “Alien Wars” are jerky)

I noticed that most TFT monitor’s refresh rate don’t go over 75HZ, is there going to be dithering & tearing in the video display when I play games in MAME & other 2D games at 60FPS?
Also the response time in TFTs is considerably larger than CRT monitors (12-25ms)
Will that also degrade 2D & 3D gaming experience?
What would be the best native TFT resolution for 2D gaming? I think a 21” with 1600x1200 native resolutions would be the best choice since other lower resolutions like 800x600, is a multiple of 1600x1200. But other lower resolutions (640x480) will most likely have blur and scrolling might be a bit jerky.

I've read some topics mentioning that if one would want to use the TFT for emulation, it would probably be a good idea to stay away from 1280x1024 native Resolution LCDs, since they have an unusual aspect ratio (5:4 instead of 4:3).

Also...
One more feature I would like in a TFT monitor, is being able to tilt the screen 90 degrees vertically, so I could play Ikaruga (DC) vertical (Tate) in full screen & or some other vertical shmups (Mame) in Tate mode also in full screen, rather than having to stretch the display to fit the whole screen in vertical (stretch feature in MAME)

Can anybody recomend me some TFTs that meet the above standards?


How about this:
EIZO 17'' L550
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l550/index.asp#
Specs:
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l550/spec.asp
I found this at a shop for 399 Euros / 534$ is this price ok?

Or this:
EIZO 17'' L551
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l551/index.asp#
Specs:
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/l557/spec.asp

Any recommendations will be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:39 am 


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The tearing is nothing to do with your existing screen (unless it can't sync at 60) - it's a combination of mame timing, game redraw rate and display frequency. Many arcade games don't actually sync at 60hz anyway.. You've got ones at 57,61,etc. Every time a frame update doesn't fall in line with your screen refresh update, you'll get some kind of display defect. As long as you have a decent display card, advancemame will put some of this right as it throws windows refresh out of the window and programs the video card mode itself.

A TFT will still tear just like a CRT, and will look worse with anything that isn't on its recommended frequency list. TFTs have a recommended resolution. Display at anything else and they lose definition quite badly. Also the refresh rate isn't quick enough to avoid motion blur, even the really high end ones suffer to a small extent.

Stick with a CRT for gaming - especially if sync speed is important.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:01 am 


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The tearing/jerky effect doesn't only occur in Mame. It's in every single Emu when the Rom is being played at 60FPS & the refresh rate of the monitor is anything but a multiple of 60HZ.
I play most of my emus at 800x600 @ 120HZ. My CRT monitor's ideal Resolution is 1024x768 @ 100HZ, but if I play a game at 60FPS with this setting I'll witness some tearing/jerky scrolling, so I stick to 800x600 @ 120HZ.

Yes perfect sync speed is very important in my book, especially in 2D gaming.

...But I've read that some high quality TFTs are supposed to be pretty good now…
So I'm examining the possibility to turn to a TFT as they are much less tiring to the eyes compared to a CRT…

I think a TFT with a 1600x1200 native Res, should be ideal for 2D gaming with perfect sync speed…

I don’t know if a TFT with a 90 degrees tilt pivot exists though…


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 pm 


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ST Dragon wrote:
I think a TFT with a 1600x1200 native Res, should be ideal for 2D gaming with perfect sync speed…


No - this will be absolutely horrible - it's a million miles away from game resolutions and will be fuzzy and poorly defined. You can test this yourself - find a laptop, set it to recommended res.

Now drop it. Look at the fuzzy lines.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:33 pm 


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As I seem to say a lot when the topic comes up, the Dell 2001FP is a very good 20" LCD with 1600x1200 resolution, extra composite and S-video inputs and good scaling at lower resolutions. You can even often get it for under $500 if you can catch a coupon deal. I'd recommend looking at some LCDs yourself before you buy though to make sure you don't see excessive blur or ghosting (I don'r notice it as much as some people do, but YMMV.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:51 pm 


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Vexorg wrote:
As I seem to say a lot when the topic comes up, the Dell 2001FP is a very good 20" LCD with 1600x1200 resolution, extra composite and S-video inputs and good scaling at lower resolutions. You can even often get it for under $500 if you can catch a coupon deal. I'd recommend looking at some LCDs yourself before you buy though to make sure you don't see excessive blur or ghosting (I don'r notice it as much as some people do, but YMMV.)


This is exactly the one I have at home. Lower resolutions than the recommended are fuzzy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:53 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:46 pm 


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bloodflowers wrote:
ST Dragon wrote:
I think a TFT with a 1600x1200 native Res, should be ideal for 2D gaming with perfect sync speed…


No - this will be absolutely horrible - it's a million miles away from game resolutions and will be fuzzy and poorly defined. You can test this yourself - find a laptop, set it to recommended res.

Now drop it. Look at the fuzzy lines.


Actually, my Viewsonic VP171b 17" LCD doesn't have any difficulty upscaling lower resolutions; They all look sharp and crisp. It runs 1280x1024 native. I've been running Mame via DVI, Dreamcast and Atomiswave via VGA, and assorted PCBs with a supergun connected with S-Video through a Hauppauge WinTV card. By comparison, my old 15" LCD looked absolutely horrible with anything other than a 1024x768 input.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:09 pm 


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What about the 90 degrees tilt lever? Any TFT that has this option?
It would be nice to be able to tilt the screen vertically & play all those MAME, DC, Saturn, PSX, shmups in tate mode.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:44 pm 


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ST Dragon wrote:
What about the 90 degrees tilt lever? Any TFT that has this option?
It would be nice to be able to tilt the screen vertically & play all those MAME, DC, Saturn, PSX, shmups in tate mode.


Yep, my Viewsonic VP171b also rotates 90 degrees, and even has three inputs (two VGA and one DVI) to allow muliple systems to be hooked up simultaneously.

The only drawback is that it rotates clockwise, and most PCBs default to counter-clockwise rotation. It's not a big deal since Mame has an auto-rotate feature and all the tate PCBs I own use a jumper to invert the image. Shiki 2 and Psyvariar 2 for DC both have an invert option as well, and they both look awesome! Supposedly, Trizeal also has this option (I don't have it yet), but Ikaruga does not.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:45 am 


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Sounds interesting.
What about the overall picture quality of your view sonic, how good is it with 2D games?
How well do the lower resolutions look when scaled to your native res?
What is the recomended native resolution of your monitor by the way?

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:39 am 


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ST Dragon wrote:
Sounds interesting.
What about the overall picture quality of your view sonic, how good is it with 2D games?
How well do the lower resolutions look when scaled to your native res?
What is the recomended native resolution of your monitor by the way?



The image quality is excellent, and it scales low resolutions beautifully to it's native 1280x1024 resolution. It was one of the first LCDs available with a fast 16ms response time (and it cost me a fair bit two years ago), though there are faster units available now. Viewsonic still sells the VP171b, but they have just upgraded it to a newer panel with an 8ms response time (http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktopdisplays/lcddisplays/proseries/vp171b/).


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