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 Post subject: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:13 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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Location: UK
Purchased a brand new DVDO EDGE together with a HDFURY2 last week.

Going off the back of others reviews etc, I thought I would give it a go with gaming sources. I don't really need it for this, but thought it was worth a look.

The system is easy to use and set-up. The HDFURY2 is only required if you are going to use a SLG3000.

It's virtually all plug and play, but you can change options to get the best out of it.

Now.... these units are not specifically cheap. In the UK you are paying £560 for a new unit. Top that off with a HDFURY2 and you are talking £700.

The unit has all manner of input's (as long as you have various breakout leads). Taking component (progressive compatible as well), RGBs, RGBHV, HDMI, composite etc.

I created a SCART RGB to RGBs cable easily enough for use with my retro consoles.

480p source component to HDMI transcoding is very nice! 8) (PS2, XBOX, GC etc)
480i source to deinterlaced HDMI is very nice! (PS2, GC etc)
240p source to HDMI (line doubled mode or scaled) is crap imo

The 240p handling is the biggest let down for me. The image is blurry, even though the unit recognises 240p correctly as progressive and you choose the line doubling resolution (720x480). For the price of the unit, you would expect better results than this imo. My CPO far excels in sharpness and clarity over the EDGE for 240p line doubled output.

If you use a SLG after the EDGE this clarity issue will be resolved to a degree, but if you are going to use the EDGE for 240p handling without a SLG.... it looks gash!.

Here is Metal Slug X on the PS2 (240p):

CPO
Image

EDGE
Image

The EDGE has the latest firmware on it.

I need to try the EDGE on my AV system downstairs to see how much of an improvement it will make to SKY HD / SD channels & DVD's (deinterlacing and appropriate scaling). This is it's forte in theory.

It's a real shame imo about the 240p image, but it handles 480p and 480i really well and I am certainly impressed with those image sources. :)
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:39 pm 


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Just to share (in parts) what we've discussed via PM before:

I don't have an Edge anymore, but I'm running a VP50Pro as part of my home theater setup. The VP50Pro was the grand design the Edge is based on. While the 50Pro is FPGA-based, the Edge got the same features in an ASIC design. The picture basic quality of the two is the same. The 50Pro has more DI-modes, another NR engine and it can apply Edge- and Detail Enhancement while in Gamemode. Nevertheless the basic 240p performance is the same.

The picture output of fagin's Cinemteq processor is very close the 480p of the Videon/Vigatec Faroudja machines.

When I recently compared the SLG3000's performance on a bunch of linedoublers, I also tried 240p input from a MVS and a PGM on the 50pro and on my Videon unit. I was surprised how good the image was compared to the XRGB-3 output. While not quite as sharp, it was close enough to give my full recommendation on using the SLG on a ABT2010-based DVDO machine like the Edge.

As a reminder here's my DVDO with the SLG:

http://pms.hazard-city.de/mvs_dvdo_2.jpg
http://pms.hazard-city.de/pgm_dvdo_1.jpg
http://pms.hazard-city.de/pgm_dvdo_2.jpg

And here's an old screenshot running MSX on the Edge (without SLG and scaled to 1080p)

http://pms.hazard-city.de/msx_game.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:51 pm 



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For 240p sources.... the SLG is an absolute MUST imo on the EDGE (based on your tests Tobias).

Unfortunately I have been unable to test this since the EDGE outputs the wrong sync polarity, so I either need to build a working RGBHV polarity changer or wait for the next release of the SLG (that will hopefully have a sync polarity switch).
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:12 pm 


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I'm still surprised at the fact that a machine like the Edge has no option to switch H & V sync polarities... Is it the same on the VP series?
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:46 pm 


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Because there technically isn't such a thing as sync polarity for HDMI signals and the Edge does not have an analogue RGBHV output. All DVDO machines with VGA output also have switchable sync polarity via software.


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:54 pm 



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Re-visited the sync polarity switcher and it still does not work for RGBHV output.

Considering I have already slammed £700 for the EDGE and HDFURY2, I might as well slam another £180 and go and buy a HDFURY3. :roll: :mrgreen:

Will see if I can order one tomorrow for next day delivery.
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:28 pm 


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Why don't you return the Fury2 and get the cheaper Fury 1 instead ?


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:01 am 


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The Fury 1 and 2 can only (?) pass through what polarity they're fed. Surely, it's better to wait for a revised SLG...


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:08 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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Sod it as I am impatient! :oops: Just ordered the HDFURY3 for delivery tomorrow.

Will let you know how I get on.
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:34 pm 


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Quote:
The Fury 1 and 2 can only (?) pass through what polarity they're fed. Surely, it's better to wait for a revised SLG...

but if you tell me that the Fury1 works on the PS3 while the Fury2 won't, then there has to be something else about these two... In the DVDO manuals it says that the sync polarity switch does only apply to the RGBHV output and not to the HDMI signal.


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:37 pm 


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True, but I've no idea why.

C'mon, Fagin. Might as well buy the Fury 1, too! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:31 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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SGGG2 wrote:
True, but I've no idea why.

C'mon, Fagin. Might as well buy the Fury 1, too! :twisted:


According to their website both 1 & 2 only pass the sync that is provided. Only the 3 will allow this to be switched. As Fudoh has said.... this points towards the "issue" that SGGG2 has, not being sync related then.

I will try my 2 when I get home on my PS3.

SGGG2
No problem.... I will buy you one as well whilst I am it! :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:05 pm 


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PM Sent :wink:

Well, considering the 720p issue with my SLG (scanlines drop out, power light dim -- with the exception of the dim light worked fine for a few hours last night) maybe it's not the fury after all. If you have a PS3 be sure to test 480p conversion!


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:33 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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Location: UK
THIS IS PS3 related:

PS3 -> HDFURY2 -> SLG3000
480p Does not work
720p Works fine

As you suggest someone is telling porkies and it aint you (i.e. It's HDFURY). The HDFURY2 either keeps the polarity the same or it is inverting it and the HDFURY1 (based on SGGG2 feedback) does the OPPOSITE.

By the looks of it the HDFURY2 is doing "something else" with the signal, as the colour is banded when the PS3 is set to 480p mode.
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:03 pm 



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 52
Location: Houston, TX
I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post in but I have a question regarding the DVDO Edge. I recently bought a Scart to HDMI converter and I'm not too pleased with the picture quality and lag I'm getting out of it. I'm thinking about purchasing a DVDO Edge instead and hooking it up to my plasma. The Scart to HDMI converter shows artifacts all over the place where it looks like pixels jump as if the image is not stable. The converter also has s-video and behaves the same way in s-video so I know it's not the cable.

I'm assuming I'm going to get a much better image using the Edge vs the cheap scaler I bought. I'm using an SNES/N64 through the converter. I bought a RGB Euro Scart cable for my SNES and if I'm going to feed that into the Edge how would I do it? I tried doing some research on the subject but can't seem to find a simple explanation of what I need to get to convert it properly. I'm sure S-Video through N64 will hook up right to the Edge. I also plan on using my PS2, PS3, and set top box attached to the Edge.

Also since the Edge has just one audio input for Analog L/R will I have to continously unplug and replug the SNES and N64 when I want to play the other? Will the lag I'm experiencing using the Scart to HDMI adapter be lowered using the Edge in Gamer Mode? Sorry for all the questions but reading these forums can sometimes be a bit challenging trying to figure it all out.

To make it simple these are the devices I will be using:
NES - Composite + L/R to Edge
SNES - RGB Scart to Edge
N64 - S-Video to Edge
PS1 - Use PS3 HDMI to Edge
PS2 - Component to Edge
PS3 - HDMI to Edge
Wii - Component to Edge
STB - HDMI to Edge

All hooking up HDMI to TV. I think I heard that I would need an HDFury2 to convert the HDMI to VGA to use the SLG3000 through the Edge. After using the HdFury2 how would I connect the audio to the TV? BTW, my Plasma does have VGA input.

Thanks for all the help, I'm a computer tech and I understand a lot of the conversations on this board but still some of it confuses me. We all get smarter one day at a time! :) Thanks again!

Mods: If I'm posting in the wrong forum please let me know if I need to start my own thread.


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:17 pm 



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DON'T USE A HDFURY2!!!

I am just in the middle of compiling a post update for this thread with images, so bear with me for a few minutes and I will come back to reply in full! :)
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:43 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 1647
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OK.... here we go.

I have now got hold of the HDFURY3 and VOILA it now enables the SLG to work! :P

So back to the comparison screen shots:

MSX AT 720X240P
PS2->EDGE->DELL LCD
Image

PS2->EDGE->HDFURY3->SLG->DELL LCD
Image

Now notice how much better the image is with the SLG in toe. I think the image is very CRT like.

Obviously the EDGE is more than just a 240p handling device (apart from the obvious AV stuff), so here are some shots from 480i and 480p native games!

PS2->EDGE->HDFURY3->SLG (TURNED OFF)->DELL LCD (PLEASE NOTE THESE IMAGES WILL BE SLIGHTLY SHARPER WITHOUT THE FURY AND SLG, I.E. STRAIGHT TO HDMI)
480i not using gamer mode
Image
Great image IMO!

480i using game mode (correct deinterlacing and virtually no lag)
Image

480p using game mode (correct deinterlacing and virtually no lag)
Image
The above image is basically transcoding from component to HDMI. Again this image would be slightly cleaner if I chopped out the fury and SLG in the chain.

Very pleasing results if you ask me overall.

For final comparison here is the same game using:

PS2->DIRECT COMPONENT CONNECTION (480p) TO DELL
Image

PS2->COMPONENT TO HDBOX PRO CLONE (480P)->DELL
Image


Brandonp514,
The EDGE will do what you want to do. The deinterlacing and scaling engine of the EDGE will be far superior to you cheapo scaler, as it will deinterlace properly with little to no artifacts (depending on the mode).

The EDGE will natively take analogue inputs including S-Video, AV, RGBs and RGBHV. You can connect SCART RGB buy using a breakout cable that converts SCART RGB to RGBs (four phono's R G B and composite video sync (CVBS)). These are cheap or you can make one yourself easily enough.

Lag is minimal via the EDGE when you use the GAMER MODE (6ms IIRC).

Easiest way for audio would be to hook all your analogue audio's to a junction box and switch between all of them. Easy to do.

All the source inputs you describe, the EDGE will deal with.

Don't use a HDFURY2 with the EDGE.... it is not compatible with source material at 480p. You will need a HDFURY3, or another box of tricks to convert the sync polarity.
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:58 pm 



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 52
Location: Houston, TX
fagin wrote:
Brandonp514,
The EDGE will do what you want to do. The deinterlacing and scaling engine of the EDGE will be far superior to you cheapo scaler, as it will deinterlace properly with little to no artifacts (depending on the mode).

Good because the artifacts are driving me nuts on my cheap scaler!
Quote:
The EDGE will natively take analogue inputs including S-Video, AV, RGBs and RGBHV. You can connect SCART RGB buy using a breakout cable that converts SCART RGB to RGBs (four phono's R G B and composite video sync (CVBS)). These are cheap or you can make one yourself easily enough.

SNES connection would be RGB Scart to RGBs. How do I get audio after this and how would I find this cable, I tried Ebay, maybe I'm searching incorrectly.
Quote:
Lag is minimal via the EDGE when you use the GAMER MODE (6ms IIRC).

Easiest way for audio would be to hook all your analogue audio's to a junction box and switch between all of them. Easy to do.

Hate to ask but could you show me a device to do this?

Quote:
All the source inputs you describe, the EDGE will deal with.

Don't use a HDFURY2 with the EDGE.... it is not compatible with source material at 480p. You will need a HDFURY3, or another box of tricks to convert the sync polarity.

I have NO idea what the heck sync polarity is, LOL.

Thanks for the quick reply fagin. I'm from the US so RGBHV and YUV and CVBS acronyms confuse the heck out of me. I only know of YPbPr, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:07 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
Posts: 1647
Location: UK
Quickly looking on Ebay here is a RGB SCART to RGBs converter. You would also need a SCART Female to Female extender block, go between your SCART RGB cable and this converter.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hama-Scart-RGB-Component-Adaptor-OUT-Converter-/380314413911?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item588c816b57

Again, quickly looking through Ebay here is a simple AV switcher.... you would only use the audio inputs and audio output, but you get the idea.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-Way-Audio-Video-AV-RCA-Switcher-Splitter-DVD-PS2-/160549501130?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item25617ef8ca

If you don't understand anything then feel free to ask away mate! :)
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:16 pm 



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 52
Location: Houston, TX
fagin wrote:
Quickly looking on Ebay here is a RGB SCART to RGBs converter. You would also need a SCART Female to Female extender block, go between your SCART RGB cable and this converter.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hama-Scart-RGB-Component-Adaptor-OUT-Converter-/380314413911?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item588c816b57


Probably would help if I looked through Ebay UK and not US, lol.

So how would the audio work if it virtually took away my R/L audio connector when hooking up through the adapter? Also what cable would I then have to buy to hook up to the Edge? A standard component cable w/ no audio?

Quote:
Again, quickly looking through Ebay here is a simple AV switcher.... you would only use the audio inputs and audio output, but you get the idea.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-Way-Audio-Video-AV-RCA-Switcher-Splitter-DVD-PS2-/160549501130?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item25617ef8ca

If you don't understand anything then feel free to ask away mate! :)


That's not a bad idea with the switch box, I guess they don't have it for just audio but I can forget about the composite video connections. Thanks for helping me out!


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:22 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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Location: UK
You either find a Female to Female SCART block that has audio breakout connectors, or you take the block apart and wire in your own. This is what I have done and takes 5mins! :D
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:35 pm 



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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Location: Houston, TX
fagin wrote:
You either find a Female to Female SCART block that has audio breakout connectors, or you take the block apart and wire in your own. This is what I have done and takes 5mins! :D


Is there a guide somewhere about doing that? I found F to F couplers all over the place but none with breakout audio. Plus the 4 RCA on the other end would go where on the DVDO Edge? Isn't there just three connectors on it, and where would I find this cable?


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:43 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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You just need to buy four male to male phono leads (or make up your own). These plug straight in to the EDGE via R, G, B and Sync phono's on the back.

Just google SCART RGB PINOUT and you will find the appropriate pins that carry L & R audio and Ground. You then wire your two phono's (for L and R) to these three points (both phono's have a ground which go to the same ground pin on the SCART pin).
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:49 pm 



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 52
Location: Houston, TX
fagin wrote:
You just need to buy four male to male phono leads (or make up your own). These plug straight in to the EDGE via R, G, B and Sync phono's on the back.

Just google SCART RGB PINOUT and you will find the appropriate pins that carry L & R audio and Ground. You then wire your two phono's (for L and R) to these three points (both phono's have a ground which go to the same ground pin on the SCART pin).


You think S-Video would be sufficient? LOL I just wish they had a Scart connector on the EDGE! This just seems to be a lot of work to get Scart working!

Maybe I could pay you or somebody else to put this together and send it my way?

Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:59 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2010
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I wouldn't touch s-video with a barge pole if I had the choice of using RGB! ;)

It took me 20mins to make my own SCART RGB to RGBs converter.... you should piss this being a "computer tech"! ;)
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:01 pm 



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fagin wrote:
I wouldn't touch s-video with a barge pole if I had the choice of using RGB! ;)

It took me 20mins to make my own SCART RGB to RGBs converter.... you should piss this being a "computer tech"! ;)


LOL thanks man, appreciate it. *sarcasm* :P What I do is totally in another world than this! However if you just showed me a tutorial on how to do this I could easily learn. I'm willing to learn! :) Honest to God I've never taken apart a cable in my life so it is completely foreign territory to me, but I have a fascination for this stuff so I'd definitely be willing to try!


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:17 pm 



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We all have to start somewhere mate and this is far from rocket science. I am an IT "nerd" as well, so don't worry too much about it. Myself and many others on this forum will certainly help as and where we can, and I am certainly far from any sort of "expert". :)
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:26 pm 



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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fagin wrote:
We all have to start somewhere mate and this is far from rocket science. I am an IT "nerd" as well, so don't worry too much about it. Myself and many others on this forum will certainly help as and where we can, and I am certainly far from any sort of "expert". :)


Well hopefully somebody will be kind enough to help me out on creating a custom cable. I guess I don't "have" to do it yet because there is an s-video connection on the DVDO so I can just use that for the time being.

So am I gonna have problems using the DVDO with an SLG3000? Should I look elsewhere for upscalers?


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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:35 pm 



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brandonp514 wrote:
fagin wrote:
We all have to start somewhere mate and this is far from rocket science. I am an IT "nerd" as well, so don't worry too much about it. Myself and many others on this forum will certainly help as and where we can, and I am certainly far from any sort of "expert". :)


Well hopefully somebody will be kind enough to help me out on creating a custom cable. I guess I don't "have" to do it yet because there is an s-video connection on the DVDO so I can just use that for the time being.

So am I gonna have problems using the DVDO with an SLG3000? Should I look elsewhere for upscalers?


You will get no problems if you use the HDFURY3 to convert the EDGE HDMI output to a DSUB15 input for the SLG. I believe the HDFURY1 (which is alot cheaper) will also work, but I have not tested this with the EDGE so I can not say for sure. However, I can say the HDFURY2 will not work correctly (as I have tried that already).

Of course you can buy cheaper scalers / deinterlacers, but as a multi purpose uint.... you won't beat the EDGE for the price, quality and versatility.
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 Post subject: Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:40 pm 


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It's amazing how much better the image looks with the SLG3000.


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