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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:36 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 35
Artemio wrote:
It is an awesome game =)

I am sorry about all the trouble... and delay. My HDD is crashing constantly, it is giving its last.

Due to this I could only recompile it here and could not perform a full test, but here is a rebuil.. I hope it works for you.. let me know: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... CD_USA.zip

I cannot do anything more until I get a new HDD. I am terribly sorry.


I tried it and got the same thing. Sorry to hear about your HDD. No need to apologize...I appreciate you taking the time to try to help. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:22 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 35
I just wanted to report back and tell you that apparently the Imation CDs I was using were just crappy. I got a spindle of nice white backed Taiyo Yudens and the disc boots up just fine now. Sorry for the false alarm! :)


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:16 am 


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Thanks for the report man, I am glad it could be solved and that I didn't provide a bogus image. I tend to test them always before release, and just in this occasion I didn't... it really worried me.

On my side I could finally get my hands on substitute drive just today, and was also able to clone my drive with minimum damage to Linux and windows, so i am up and running again.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:35 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
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Artemio wrote:
Thanks for the report man, I am glad it could be solved and that I didn't provide a bogus image. I tend to test them always before release, and just in this occasion I didn't... it really worried me.

On my side I could finally get my hands on substitute drive just today, and was also able to clone my drive with minimum damage to Linux and windows, so i am up and running again.


Yay! I'm glad that worked out, and thanks for being understanding about the false diagnosis, lol.

Also, I have a small suggestion. You know how you can turn Help on and it gives you a cool little foreword before each pattern to tell you what it does? I would suggest mentioning color filters (like the ones that come with calibration discs) in the one that you can use a filter with. That way, folks who overlooked that part on the website will know about it, and folks like me that forgot which pattern to use won't have to Google it. Yes...I'm, lazy. ;)

Maybe even a brief description on how to use a filter, if it fits?


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:43 pm 


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I'll look into it, thanks. Yes, the "help" system is a bit neglected, I need to polish it a bit.. specially in Sega CD/Genesis.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:56 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2013
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Artemio wrote:
I'll look into it, thanks. Yes, the "help" system is a bit neglected, I need to polish it a bit.. specially in Sega CD/Genesis.


I haven't tried the DC version, but what you have is really good. I like it a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:56 pm 


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Thanks man, I am glad it is of use. I just added that bit of help to the Genesis version, not in the current release though.. it will be in for the next one.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:10 am 


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During last week I saw the Overdrive demo by Titan on the Genesis, and of course I wanted to test it on real hardware. However it is PAL only, and it crashed after a few minutes and displayed a lot of errors while running.

So I ended up modding a Japanese Mega Drive with a 50/60 Hz switch. Having done that, I was curious since I have never had a PAL source before - and because the Overdrive demo was cut in my display due to the change in resolution.

So testing how the Mega Drive version of the suite worked in PAL, and that carried me to investigate it a bit further... so I ended up modifying the suite heavily for PAL use when in that mode.

I don't know if these changes will be useful in general, but they were fun to implement and I ended understanding some finer details. Work has probably not been fully done, but at least 90% has been tested in my setup. Since I don't have a real PAL display, I can only do so much. If anyone is interested in giving me feedback or suggestions on my current build here are the links:

Mega Drive/genesis version 1.12 RC
Mega CD/Sega CD RC 1.12

I mainly added an entry in the menu that states the current resolution and video format, since in PAL it can output 224 or 240 active lines compared to the 224 in NTSC.

- When the console is in PAL, all frames are now counted up to 50, instead of 60... so now time is accurately measured as well. Probably didn't bother anybody too much, but it did bother me once I tested it in PAL.
- You can change between 224 and 240 active lines
- When in fill PAL 240p mode the Grid, linearity, checkerboards, scroll and some other modes are rendered in the full resolution.
- Added a new grid in 256x224 mode for NTSC and PAL, and also a 256x240 in PAL. Since the console supports it and some games do use it, I guessed it might be useful.

I also added a new linearity test when in PAL 240p mode, but I am still in doubt... I would need a proper PAL display in order to test it. It does respect the 59/54 pixel aspect ratio in theory, just as the NTSC one does respect the 10/11 one. If someone could test it, I would be grateful. I will do my best to test it with the EDGE and XRGB machines this weekend though, all other tests were already tested in a real Mega Drive with the scalers. I wonder what the arcade monitors will do when receiving a PAL signal via RGB...
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:51 am 


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A new minor update for the Dreamcast version.

http://code.google.com/p/240p-test-suite/downloads/list

Version 1.17: New test for evaluating upscaler/TV response time when switching between 240p and 480i.

It is a simple test with a chronometr runing. It starts in 240p, and when the A button is pressed the resolution changes to 480i and a timestamp is made and shown. When the screen comes up in the upscaler/TV you must press A again, and a new time stamp is printed. This process stores timestamps for 10 cycles, and then starts over.

The help has been improved and added for all tests.

Happy new year
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:26 am 


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And yes, another new update for the Dreamcast version. This one might be interesting for those few people that want to measure input lag of a full audio and video chain (via audio delay) and that have a Dreamcast microphone at hand.

I had made this code a few years ago, but it is finally functional thanks to recent changes to the KOS SDK for DC. It uses fast Fourier Transforms to detect the delay in a 1Khz audio tone. It is very reliable as far as I can tell.

Code:
Version 1.18: New lag test that uses the SIP Microphone. It can measure display lag if it follows the same chain that audio does. The test appears if a microphone is detected. It uses fast Fourier Transform to detect the audio delay by playing a 1Khz tone and accurately calculating the frame delay.


Download link: http://code.google.com/p/240p-test-suite/downloads/list
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:17 pm 



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
Posts: 5
Hi, I downloaded the Sega CD image (latest version) and burned the USA using ImgBurn at the lowest speed possible. My Sega CD will not load it. At first I thought it was because the 32x was installed so I took that off and it now just loops the PLEASE WAIT screen and loads the CD forever in a loop too. Was I not supposed to burn the ISO, am I supposed to make it into a Bin/Cue file or something first?


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:09 pm 


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It must work as is. No need to change anything. Might be an issue with the brand of the CDs
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:58 pm 



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
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Artemio wrote:
It must work as is. No need to change anything. Might be an issue with the brand of the CDs


I tried an hp brand and a TDK one. I've used those brands on Sega Saturn games and they seem to work.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:31 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Burning at lowest speed isn't necessarily the best. I typically have the best results between 8x and 16x. There are tools that you can use to analyze the number of burning errors on a disc, which can be useful in determining what brands of CD-R media and what burning speeds produce the best results on your setup, but it's been a decade since I've used any of these and can't remember the names. Cdrom freaks forum might have useful information if it's still around.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:41 am 



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I tried different speeds (8x is the slowest my drive allows). I suppose I could try it one more time.

Edit: Failed again, it just literally tries to load the image forever.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:10 am 



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
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Okay, I now used Alcohol 120 and it did get to the Sega boot up screen this time where Sonic wags his finger. Then it just freezes and I'm pretty sure the disc stopped spinning at that point. Was this deigned to not work in composite? I wanted to compare this to my new upscale box when it comes.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:56 am 



Joined: 09 Feb 2014
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Okay that was weird! I pushed one of the discs I burned down firmly before closing my Sega CD and then it worked!

Edit: So I don't know what I'm doing yet, but during the sound test the left channel did the sound on the right of my TV and the same with the other channel in the wrong area. Does that mean my TV reversed my channels?


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:06 am 


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A new port of the Suite is almost finished.

A Wii version.

Of course you need the homebrew channel installed. Here is a Beta: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... iiBeta.zip

I will add a bunch more stuff, but right now it has almost the same features than the DC version, it only misses the LED Zone test, audio test and all the help.

I added a safety feature for 480p, so you cannot turn it on accidentaly.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:19 am 


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I gave the Wii version a go. I noticed that the 240p grid seems to give different results than the Genesis one did.

I have now resized my display for N64, but the test suites have been helpful so far. I haven't looked into the colour tests yet, but I will probably dabble in them soonish. Although I don't mind how the colours are looking at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:22 am 


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The Nintendo Wii version of the suite has been released: https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... rce=navbar

More info at the wiki http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p ... ntendo_Wii

Your wii must be able to run homebrew to execute his version of the suite. Some features will be improved in future releases, mainly some patterns will be fine adjusted for the wii capabilities, mainly color related.

it also is the first version to include SMPTE color bars, they will be back ported to the other releases of the suite.

I'll probably also back port this menu system to the Dreamcast.

In order to not display 480p in CRTs that do not support this resolution, it must be enabled manually under options when a component cable is available.

@Traveller The different results are because the consoles have different signals. Also, the Wii has full 240p while the Genesis doesn't.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:47 am 


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Ah right. I wasn't sure why.

Also, for some reason when I set 480i on my PVM the image jitters a bit. Games I have that output 480i don't do this, so I am unsure on that too.

Thanks again, great software app!


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 4:53 pm 


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Great work Artemio I am sure the Wii version will be very useful for a lot of people, myself included.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 5:12 pm 


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Traveller wrote:
Ah right. I wasn't sure why.

Also, for some reason when I set 480i on my PVM the image jitters a bit. Games I have that output 480i don't do this, so I am unsure on that too.

Thanks again, great software app!


The wii supports two 480i settings, for test purposes I sneaked them both in this test. "480i with mixed 480p/240p resources" uses real NTSC 480i and "480i with 240p resources (Fake 480i)" uses a mode that is "not double field" (whatever that means). Let me know if you notice any difference between them.

BuckoA51 wrote:
Great work Artemio I am sure the Wii version will be very useful for a lot of people, myself included.


Thanks! I still am fine tuning some patterns, but it is almost there. I was surprised at how easy it was to port my code to the Wii from the Dreamcast version once I had the basics layed out.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 11:51 pm 


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So a new port again, well not really. The Gamecube version is available now:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsuite240p/files/

I have no way of testing it but an emulator, since my Gamecube is not modded. It should work without issues though.

I also updated the Wii version to 1.1, with nicer menus and added the missing stuff; like the audio test and support for GC gamepad, as well as the Wiimote. It also corrects the PLUGE pattern for the Wii, it now goes down to 3.5 IRE, which the Dreamcast couldn't do.

Will add the SMPTE color bars to the Genesis, Dreamcast and Sega CD versions soon. Let me know if you get any ideas of stuff that could be added, and any feedback is always welcome.
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:12 pm 


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Hi Artemio, thanks a lot for your hard work and the Wii port!
Here are my results with version 1.1 (the meta.xml says 1.0 though) regarding the video modes on a PVM-20L4, I'm on JPN Wii using component.
- 240p: works as expected
- 480i with 240p resources (fake 480i): I don't see what is fake about it, it looks like regular good old NTSC 480i on my screen (!).
- 480i with mixed 480p/240p: Now this is weird, it displays a very small window on the top-left of the screen, like if scaling was disabled.
I can't test 480p as my PVM doesn't support it.
All tests and everything else seem to be working just fine.
Out of curiosity, what do you derive the Wii region from, its serial number?
Finally a small suggestion: if it's not too much extra work please add support for classic controller!
See you,

TSR


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:35 pm 


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Thanks for your feedback ShadowRunner.

TheShadowRunner wrote:
Here are my results with version 1.1 (the meta.xml says 1.0 though)


My bad, fixed for 1.2 on.

TheShadowRunner wrote:
- 480i with 240p resources (fake 480i): I don't see what is fake about it, it looks like regular good old NTSC 480i on my screen (!).


I named it Fake 480i since the resources are really 240p, same situation as playing SFII third strike on a dreamcast in 480i mode. It is "Fake" since it doesn't have real 480i assets, and makes a really bad situation for some upscalers/monitors. this is qa quick way to check that.

TheShadowRunner wrote:
- 480i with mixed 480p/240p: Now this is weird, it displays a very small window on the top-left of the screen, like if scaling was disabled.


Yes, that is the expected behaviour. Indeed scaling is turned off as opposed to "Fake 480i". Some patterns and tests are displayed with 480 assets, like the grid, solid colors and drop shadow test. The idea here is to show everything in a 1:1 pixel mode.

TheShadowRunner wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you derive the Wii region from, its serial number?


Did it show anything wierd on yours? I am using code from libcheckregion. It checks a 3 charcater code that teh wii stores. The code simply maps that code to a region based on feedback.

TheShadowRunner wrote:
Finally a small suggestion: if it's not too much extra work please add support for classic controller!


Working on it as we sp... write, after the gamecube controller; it was just what I was implementing this morning.

Let me know if you have better names for the modes, or suggestions for them.

Artemio
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:57 pm 


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Artemio wrote:
Yes, that is the expected behaviour. Indeed scaling is turned off as opposed to "Fake 480i". Some patterns and tests are displayed with 480 assets, like the grid, solid colors and drop shadow test. The idea here is to show everything in a 1:1 pixel mode.

Ah, I understand. Then maybe add another video mode based on this one with scaling enabled?
Because as the only "real" 480i/NTSC mode available, it is unexpected to get that small 1:1 pixel mode imho.

Artemio wrote:
Did it show anything wierd on yours? I am using code from libcheckregion. It checks a 3 charcater code that teh wii stores. The code simply maps that code to a region based on feedback.

No, all good, it just might come in handy for me in the future, thanks ^^

Quote:
Working on it as we sp... write, after the gamecube controller; it was just what I was implementing this morning.

Great news, thanks! Nothing beats the good old CC.

Quote:
Let me know if you have better names for the modes, or suggestions for them.

If you do add a scaled "real" 480i/NTSC mode, I suggest appending (Scaling disabled) to the current mode and (Scaling enabled) to the new one.
If you don't then I suggest appending (1:1 pixel mode) to the current one so that users aren't surprised by the disabled scaling ^^;
See you,

TSR


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:51 pm 


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New update for Wii and Gamecube versions, release 1.2:

- Modified video mode names, Fake 480i was not cutting it
- Made both 480i modes NTSC
- Fixed full screen display of patterns in unscaled 480i/480p mode
- Added support for Wii classic controller
- Added support for Nunchuck
- Added support for GC analog jostick
- Added rumble feedback in GC and Wiimote
- Added Wiimote battery report on menu
- Fixed bug in Manual Lag Test (could only exit holding B from results)
- Added rumble support in manual lag test
- Fixed order of Video/Options so that they match in both menus

Release files are here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsuite240p/files/

TheShadowRunner wrote:
Ah, I understand. Then maybe add another video mode based on this one with scaling enabled?
Because as the only "real" 480i/NTSC mode available, it is unexpected to get that small 1:1 pixel mode imho.


In reality that is what the "Fake 480i" mode was, although since I tested it using the extra 480i mode might have caused confusion. Fixed that so that both are NTSC 480i, one scaled and one non scaled. I removed the word "fake" and added scaled and unscaled as suggested. I will back port these changes to the DC version as well. As you can see from the changelog, I had also made a mistake when porting some of the full screen 480i/480p patterns (like the scroll, drop shadow, checkerboard, etc)
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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:02 pm 


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What an update, even rumble support haha
Thank you again!


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 Post subject: Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast, Genesis and Sega CD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:10 pm 


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TheShadowRunner wrote:
What an update, even rumble support haha
Thank you again!


Thank you for the feedback.

I believe it helps a lot when checking out a display lag, just as the audio cues. you can just observe the pattern, and the colro, audio and rumble should all match when it intersects.

Of course it is a mute point when dealing with a CRT.
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