Thanks FBX but I already installed the monitor test on my NeoSD!FBX wrote:I just so happen to already have it included in my profiles package for the Framemeister. Simply put it on your SD card with the ROMS, and it will show up in the menu list as "Monitor Test Utility". It's invaluable for adjusting A/D in the Framemeister to match the console's RGB output using the color bars test pattern.Violent Ken wrote:Hi Artemio!
Do you have plans to make a Neo Geo version compatible with the Neo SD?
Thanks for your awesome work!
-FBX
240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
This is excellent news, I just tested it on (my recently acquired) PSIO. Congratulatorios on the work, it looks excellent so far.Username: wrote:Hello,
I ported this to PS1.
For now this version lack of:
-Help texts
-Alternating 240p/480i test
-100 IRE test pattern
-Interlaced video modes
And pal resolution is only 256p
https://github.com/filipalac/240pTestSuite-PS1
A few questions:
- I thought the PS supports 256x240, is that the case under the SDK?
- Is the 224 resolution not supported, and hence why only the grid changes? Or is that the way the ps handles it? (I ask since it is top aligned with 240)
- Will it support the analogue controllers?
- Does the PS support darker than black video levels?
- Does it support a full screen color that fills blanking or other areas like the DC or Genesis?
Thanks for your great work!
Artemio
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Thanks for your feedback.
-Yes, SDK support it.
-I already properly aligned grid, and I may add 224(and 256x240) mode later.
-Like moving the star in drop shadow test with sticks? I never thought about it.
-If you mean full rgb range (0 - 255) then yes.
-I don't know about PSXSDK supporting this feature.
-Yes, SDK support it.
-I already properly aligned grid, and I may add 224(and 256x240) mode later.
-Like moving the star in drop shadow test with sticks? I never thought about it.
-If you mean full rgb range (0 - 255) then yes.
-I don't know about PSXSDK supporting this feature.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Glad to see we finally have a PS1 version.
Framemeister 240p scanline settings: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=9600
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I've been doing a bunch of experiments with the the 240p test suite on my Wii to try to calibrate my capture card (SC-512N1-L/DVI) and CRT (BVM-D20F1U) with the SMPTE color bars. I have a couple questions, and various observations.
- If the Wii is mapping 0-255 to 0-100 IRE, doesn't that mean it's sending NTSC_M_J limited? Since 0/7.5 (J/!J) IRE = 16, and 100 IRE = 235 from what I can Google, it seems like the Wii itself is compressing the color range from 0-255 -> 16-235 before sending it over the wire.
- If I use composite, my capture card driver says the color space & range are unknown, but if I use component, the driver says it's BT601/LIMITED. Maybe there's some metadata encoded in the signal; I'm not sure how the driver would know otherwise.
- I tried Smash Melee in Dolphin and it uses colors darker than 7.5 IRE (<19/19/19), which suggests I should be calibrating for 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, at least for Wii. My SNES is also definitely guilty of going darker than 7.5, but what about NES? I can't seem to find conclusive evidence.
- Using STD D65 on my BVM, auto-calibration seems to work well over component: 7.5 shows only the 29 pluge bar, and 0 shows 9/19/29 pluge bars. Composite auto-calibration doesn't seem to behave correctly though. I can see all three pluge bars in 7.5 and 0, and the chroma is so high that it causes colors to bleed on my NES games. (The chroma issue may also affect component; I haven't checked.) In fact, 7.5 and 0 settings don't look different at all over composite. I think the test suite image is fine though; this is just how things are shaking out with my display.
- I wrote a little tool to test the RGB values of my capture card feed, so I can adjust brightness/contrast/saturation in the driver to try to match the PNG values (NTSC_M_J), or rescaled values 19.125-255 -> 0-255 (NTSC_M). It seems like NTSC_M and NTSC_M_J in my driver do more than just adjust the 0/7.5 black level, so I have different calibration values for each.
- I'm not sure why, but switching between NTSC_M and NTSC_M_J in the capture card driver has noticeable results over composite, but doesn't seem to do anything over component.
- If the Wii is mapping 0-255 to 0-100 IRE, doesn't that mean it's sending NTSC_M_J limited? Since 0/7.5 (J/!J) IRE = 16, and 100 IRE = 235 from what I can Google, it seems like the Wii itself is compressing the color range from 0-255 -> 16-235 before sending it over the wire.
- If I use composite, my capture card driver says the color space & range are unknown, but if I use component, the driver says it's BT601/LIMITED. Maybe there's some metadata encoded in the signal; I'm not sure how the driver would know otherwise.
- I tried Smash Melee in Dolphin and it uses colors darker than 7.5 IRE (<19/19/19), which suggests I should be calibrating for 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, at least for Wii. My SNES is also definitely guilty of going darker than 7.5, but what about NES? I can't seem to find conclusive evidence.
- Using STD D65 on my BVM, auto-calibration seems to work well over component: 7.5 shows only the 29 pluge bar, and 0 shows 9/19/29 pluge bars. Composite auto-calibration doesn't seem to behave correctly though. I can see all three pluge bars in 7.5 and 0, and the chroma is so high that it causes colors to bleed on my NES games. (The chroma issue may also affect component; I haven't checked.) In fact, 7.5 and 0 settings don't look different at all over composite. I think the test suite image is fine though; this is just how things are shaking out with my display.
- I wrote a little tool to test the RGB values of my capture card feed, so I can adjust brightness/contrast/saturation in the driver to try to match the PNG values (NTSC_M_J), or rescaled values 19.125-255 -> 0-255 (NTSC_M). It seems like NTSC_M and NTSC_M_J in my driver do more than just adjust the 0/7.5 black level, so I have different calibration values for each.
- I'm not sure why, but switching between NTSC_M and NTSC_M_J in the capture card driver has noticeable results over composite, but doesn't seem to do anything over component.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Looks like a new version was released last week.Username: wrote:Thanks for your feedback.
-Yes, SDK support it.
-I already properly aligned grid, and I may add 224(and 256x240) mode later.
-Like moving the star in drop shadow test with sticks? I never thought about it.
-If you mean full rgb range (0 - 255) then yes.
-I don't know about PSXSDK supporting this feature.
Thanks for releasing this on the PS1 Username: / Filip! It works great.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Thanks for the feedback, my replies below.rcdrone wrote:I've been doing a bunch of experiments with the the 240p test suite on my Wii to try to calibrate my capture card (SC-512N1-L/DVI) and CRT (BVM-D20F1U) with the SMPTE color bars. I have a couple questions, and various observations.
It never does any compression, checked with the scope. In reality it always does 0-255 (NTSC-J read below)rcdrone wrote: - If the Wii is mapping 0-255 to 0-100 IRE, doesn't that mean it's sending NTSC_M_J limited? Since 0/7.5 (J/!J) IRE = 16, and 100 IRE = 235 from what I can Google, it seems like the Wii itself is compressing the color range from 0-255 -> 16-235 before sending it over the wire.
It probably does the guesswork via voltages. There is no need for metadata when the signal itself is distinct via it's sync values and color levels. Try using full range though.rcdrone wrote: - If I use composite, my capture card driver says the color space & range are unknown, but if I use component, the driver says it's BT601/LIMITED. Maybe there's some metadata encoded in the signal; I'm not sure how the driver would know otherwise.
Yes, always use full range for (Japanese designed/older) game consoles.rcdrone wrote: - I tried Smash Melee in Dolphin and it uses colors darker than 7.5 IRE (<19/19/19), which suggests I should be calibrating for 0 IRE rather than 7.5 IRE, at least for Wii. My SNES is also definitely guilty of going darker than 7.5, but what about NES? I can't seem to find conclusive evidence.
Yes, it is best to calibrate by eye. Game console video signals are compatible with broadcast standards, but they don't follow them strictly. They are just "good enough", although the newer the console, the better they adhere to the standards. I mean that older ones are worse at that.rcdrone wrote: - Using STD D65 on my BVM, auto-calibration seems to work well over component: 7.5 shows only the 29 pluge bar, and 0 shows 9/19/29 pluge bars. Composite auto-calibration doesn't seem to behave correctly though. I can see all three pluge bars in 7.5 and 0, and the chroma is so high that it causes colors to bleed on my NES games. (The chroma issue may also affect component; I haven't checked.) In fact, 7.5 and 0 settings don't look different at all over composite. I think the test suite image is fine though; this is just how things are shaking out with my display.
Technically, NTSC-J uses 9300K instead of 6500K. That might be your issue. Game consoles usually have the same output signal for all NTSC regions.rcdrone wrote: - I wrote a little tool to test the RGB values of my capture card feed, so I can adjust brightness/contrast/saturation in the driver to try to match the PNG values (NTSC_M_J), or rescaled values 19.125-255 -> 0-255 (NTSC_M). It seems like NTSC_M and NTSC_M_J in my driver do more than just adjust the 0/7.5 black level, so I have different calibration values for each.
Component does not conform to NTSC.. I mean, strictly speaking NTSC only applies to composite and over the air transmision. But we all use the term loosely to refer to 60 fps. You should use NTSC-J with consoles since it is full range though.rcdrone wrote: - I'm not sure why, but switching between NTSC_M and NTSC_M_J in the capture card driver has noticeable results over composite, but doesn't seem to do anything over component.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Thanks. I didn’t realize the color temperature was also different for NTSC-J. I’ll have to play around with that on my CRT.
I’m still confused about limited/full. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned seeing 714 mV for the 100 IRE white square, and 53 mV for the 7.5 IRE black stripe.
I’m looking at this document describing a particular PLUGE pattern: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/re ... !PDF-E.pdf
In Table 1, it says:
Black Level: 0%, 0 mV, (16)
Black Level: 7.5%, 54 mV, (16)
White Level: 100%, 714 mV, (235)
Note 2 – Digital levels are expressed in the same way as described in Recommendation ITU-R BT.601.
Doesn't this mean that 0/54 mV - 714 mV is limited, and not full?
I’m still confused about limited/full. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned seeing 714 mV for the 100 IRE white square, and 53 mV for the 7.5 IRE black stripe.
I’m looking at this document describing a particular PLUGE pattern: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/re ... !PDF-E.pdf
In Table 1, it says:
Black Level: 0%, 0 mV, (16)
Black Level: 7.5%, 54 mV, (16)
White Level: 100%, 714 mV, (235)
Note 2 – Digital levels are expressed in the same way as described in Recommendation ITU-R BT.601.
Doesn't this mean that 0/54 mV - 714 mV is limited, and not full?
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
240p test suite Amiga implementation
milika.delic at gmail.com (Milika Delic)
http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/240pTestSuite
"implementation of some tests from popular 240p test suite
(http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... test_suite). It is still
in early beta so comments and suggestions are welcomed.
Limitation: No overscan in wb prefs please, im still new and cant display
sprites if overscan is present."
Cool!
milika.delic at gmail.com (Milika Delic)
http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/240pTestSuite
"implementation of some tests from popular 240p test suite
(http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... test_suite). It is still
in early beta so comments and suggestions are welcomed.
Limitation: No overscan in wb prefs please, im still new and cant display
sprites if overscan is present."
Cool!
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I only mentioned it since you are using a capture card with teh setting and you mentioned a difference when changing the value. It will probably be a factor therercdrone wrote:Thanks. I didn’t realize the color temperature was also different for NTSC-J. I’ll have to play around with that on my CRT.
That is when displaying the PLUGE, since I made it so it mimics NTSC values. But the console is not limited, neither does it have display modes or scales values to a range. It simply displays whatever the game puts in the frame buffer.rcdrone wrote: I’m still confused about limited/full. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned seeing 714 mV for the 100 IRE white square, and 53 mV for the 7.5 IRE black stripe.
I’m looking at this document describing a particular PLUGE pattern: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/re ... !PDF-E.pdf
In Table 1, it says:
Black Level: 0%, 0 mV, (16)
Black Level: 7.5%, 54 mV, (16)
White Level: 100%, 714 mV, (235)
Note 2 – Digital levels are expressed in the same way as described in Recommendation ITU-R BT.601.
Doesn't this mean that 0/54 mV - 714 mV is limited, and not full?
And games rarely considered video standards, so they can and do go out of 7.5 and 100 IRE.
Awesome =) I'm starting work on the Saturn version.. the N64 version of the suite is on hold since last november... I was deeply disappointed by some results. I got to do a 60hz refresh on drop shadow and scroll, but the console can't cover the full 320x240 pixels, and that would imply a compromised grid and warnings all over the place.. hence why I didn't go on with that. Will keep you guys posted.h1ghju1ce wrote:240p test suite Amiga implementation
milika.delic at gmail.com (Milika Delic)
http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/240pTestSuite
"implementation of some tests from popular 240p test suite
(http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... test_suite). It is still
in early beta so comments and suggestions are welcomed.
Limitation: No overscan in wb prefs please, im still new and cant display
sprites if overscan is present."
Cool!
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Very glad to hear that you're working on a port for the Saturn, Artemio!Artemio wrote:I'm starting work on the Saturn version..
Do you have a rough ETA on when it will be ready?
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I'm glad I still have that beta version you made though. It has come in handy numerous times in my work for the Framemeister, and will again when I do OSSC work with it. But yeah, the funky output signal on the N64 makes a grid pattern pretty much impossible to do it justice. Remember that earlier beta you did where the screen was bouncing up and down 30 times a second? Crazy how all that was caused by getting too close to the edge pixels!Artemio wrote: the N64 version of the suite is on hold since last november... I was deeply disappointed by some results. I got to do a 60hz refresh on drop shadow and scroll, but the console can't cover the full 320x240 pixels, and that would imply a compromised grid and warnings all over the place.. hence why I didn't go on with that. Will keep you guys posted.
Awesome news on the Saturn version. I hope to burn that to ISO asap! Hope to see checkerboards and other patterns for both 240p and 480i modes if you don't mind!
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I am still setting up the environment since I had a very busy end of the year. But it usually takes me a month or so to do teh whole thing. I'd say early 2018.xga wrote:Do you have a rough ETA on when it will be ready?
Yes, that has discouraged me from finishing it. I made quite a bit more progress than what you saw on that beta, but it is still vert incomplete and not up to spec with other versions, but of course as close to the n64 capabilities as I can make it atm.FBX wrote: I'm glad I still have that beta version you made though. It has come in handy numerous times in my work for the Framemeister, and will again when I do OSSC work with it. But yeah, the funky output signal on the N64 makes a grid pattern pretty much impossible to do it justice. Remember that earlier beta you did where the screen was bouncing up and down 30 times a second? Crazy how all that was caused by getting too close to the edge pixels!
I always do so my friend =)FBX wrote: Awesome news on the Saturn version. I hope to burn that to ISO asap! Hope to see checkerboards and other patterns for both 240p and 480i modes if you don't mind!
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Einzelherz
- Posts: 1279
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:09 am
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
This may sound less than smart, but has anyone tried the SNES version out on a NES/SNES classic?
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
The Nintendo Entertainment System: NES Classic Edition needs to be modded in order to play random ROMs from the Internet. It's apparently fairly easy to soft-mod using hakchi2, but I don't own one and thus have no way to test it. What sort of box art image does hakchi2 require?
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Hello Artemio, I applied for an account at the xrgb wiki so I could add some info to OSSC pages, but I have not been validated yet. Or it is not meant to be an open wiki?
Edit: applied Nov 27th.
Edit: applied Nov 27th.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Sorry, since the wiki doesn't notify me via e-mail, it takes me a month or two to patrol it. And since there are a lot of bots registering all the time, I had to have the verification in place. Non optimal, I know. It is an open wiki indeed aside from that.Harrumph wrote:Hello Artemio, I applied for an account at the xrgb wiki so I could add some info to OSSC pages, but I have not been validated yet. Or it is not meant to be an open wiki?
Edit: applied Nov 27th.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Are all the wiki links dead? maybe sourceforge down or something? need the MD suite for something but I'm stuck :/
EDIT: nvm it's back ^^
EDIT: nvm it's back ^^
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
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Einzelherz
- Posts: 1279
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
In my experience, yes. Most inputs have separate settings. My TV lets me copy and paste color settings from one input to the next and for broadcast input I went ahead and just copied my HDMI input.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
If I am using a colorimeter to calibrate white balance, should I be using 240p or 480i? I’m using the SNES version and finding that cutoff/Bias is having a larger than usual influence on the higher IREs...possibly due to the presence of black scanlines in 240p?
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Einzelherz
- Posts: 1279
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:09 am
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I used 480i, but that's because I was using a Wii. I didn't notice a significant difference when switching to 240p, though.Tapeworm wrote:If I am using a colorimeter to calibrate white balance, should I be using 240p or 480i? I’m using the SNES version and finding that cutoff/Bias is having a larger than usual influence on the higher IREs...possibly due to the presence of black scanlines in 240p?
Can the SNES version output an interlaced mode? What colorimeter and software are you using?
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I’m using i1 Display Pro colorimeter and HCFR.Einzelherz wrote: I used 480i, but that's because I was using a Wii. I didn't notice a significant difference when switching to 240p, though
Can the SNES version output an interlaced mode? What colorimeter and software are you using?
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
make sure to use refresh mode (crt/plasma) in hcfr.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I need help with which mode I should be cropping against for capturing Genesis graphics.
In the 320x224 and 256x224 grids, the horizontal scroll test and most other tests in the suite, the leftmost column is blanked out. However, in the vertical scroll test, the leftmost column is displayed.
I know on the SMS, one had to blank out the leftmost column for horizontal scrolling, but I don't know if that's the case for the Genesis.
In the 320x224 and 256x224 grids, the horizontal scroll test and most other tests in the suite, the leftmost column is blanked out. However, in the vertical scroll test, the leftmost column is displayed.
I know on the SMS, one had to blank out the leftmost column for horizontal scrolling, but I don't know if that's the case for the Genesis.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
I'm not seeing that on my Genesis. The grids are fully in view with both my Framemeister profiles and my OSSC timings. Are you using an upscaler? What capture device are you using?SavagePencil wrote:
In the 320x224 and 256x224 grids, the horizontal scroll test and most other tests in the suite, the leftmost column is blanked out.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
This was evidenced when trying to calibrate my capture card. You can see the image on my PVM; I've put tape at the leftmost edge of the horizontal scroll test:
...and when I go to the vertical test:
Spoiler
Spoiler
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- Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:06 pm
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Here you can see it in OBS.
The vert scroll is tightly cropped on the left and right sides:
...but the horiz scroll has a gap on the left side:
The vert scroll is tightly cropped on the left and right sides:
Spoiler
Spoiler
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
The grid covers the whole drawing area of the signal.
You probably have brightness set too high. You can confirm this with the grid pressing the a button and measuring or with the color test with the full screen white.
Regarding the resolution, you should check the game resolution and how your capture card behaves on both horizontal resolutions.
You probably have brightness set too high. You can confirm this with the grid pressing the a button and measuring or with the color test with the full screen white.
Regarding the resolution, you should check the game resolution and how your capture card behaves on both horizontal resolutions.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Nothing shifts when I do the fullbright on the grid.Artemio wrote:The grid covers the whole drawing area of the signal.
You probably have brightness set too high. You can confirm this with the grid pressing the a button and measuring or with the color test with the full screen white.
Wait, do the two scroll tests run at different resolutions?
Regarding the resolution, you should check the game resolution and how your capture card behaves on both horizontal resolutions.
Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD
Your first post claimed the grids are also missing the left column. I replied that they do not on mine.SavagePencil wrote:
Wait, do the two scroll tests run at different resolutions?
With regard to the scroll tests, if one was set to 256 and the other set to 320, there will be a gap because they don't exactly line up the same. That's a quirk of the Genesis and how it centers the two resolutions slightly different.