240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

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Artemio
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

Will probably migrate to github, and check if they provide binary downloads. If not, I'll host those at junkerhq.net.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by mikejmoffitt »

Is there any chance of adding 480i to the Genesis version? The Genesis has an interlaced mode that doesn't change the way tiles are stored or used, which would be good for testing a display or scaler's resilience to sudden switching from 240p to 480i and back.
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Artemio
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

mikejmoffitt wrote:Is there any chance of adding 480i to the Genesis version? The Genesis has an interlaced mode that doesn't change the way tiles are stored or used, which would be good for testing a display or scaler's resilience to sudden switching from 240p to 480i and back.
I looked into it a year or so ago, however tiles were stored differently when I changed the registers directly in the way sonic 2 does. Maybe I wasn't doing it properly. I'll look into that again this week, I believe the SGDK now supports that mode.

EDIT: Here is a test release until I migrate to github https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... -1.15b.zip

It has the Alternate 240p/480i test and also you can change the general resolution form 240p to 480i form teh main menu by pressing C. I am going to place that under options just like in the SNES version.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Exidna »

Any chance of adding an audio sync test?
Ideally it would play a 1kHz tone and simultaneously flash the screen white.
Repeating this once every second or two should work, though ideally it would be a pattern of tones instead of repeating at a fixed interval.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

Sounds like a great idea Exidna, which version of the suite are you using so I can implement a test there first with your help, if possible?

I'm away for a week on a business trip, but can do so next weekend. Please let me know.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Exidna »

I had been using the Genesis one, but I'm flexible.
I just looked it up and the files provided for the tester I have use a tone which plays every two seconds.
I've seen other tests which suggest that it's best to vary the pattern (perhaps 5 flashes at 2s, wait 5s, then repeat) to avoid false readings.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

The dreamcast version has a similar test, it uses a 1khz tone and the microphone to detect signal lag with a fast fourier transform.

However this test you suggest can be implemented in all versions and needs no extra hardware. Sounds great.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by BazookaBen »

Finally got around to using the software, it's really great! I used the Wii version, and the grid patterns and scrolling tests really helped me work through my geometry issues (as best I could). Are there any good walkthroughs on fixing horizontal linearity with magnets? Mine is completely out of whack with nothing in the service menu to fix it.

I guess one more thing that would be useful, and this would probably increase the size of the program, is to include a few photos that you could also load up on an sRGB computer monitor to compare directly and get your color/tint dialed in. After messing with RGB cut/drive in on my TV I thought I had it dialed in but some scenes still look kinda flat in actual games. The SMPTE pattern is OK, but I was never able to get the bottom left colors to match my laptop monitor.

Also, gamecube controllers seem to be buggy with this software. It was scrolling through the menus on its own so I had to unplug and use the Wiimote.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

BazookaBen wrote:Finally got around to using the software, it's really great! I used the Wii version, and the grid patterns and scrolling tests really helped me work through my geometry issues (as best I could). Are there any good walkthroughs on fixing horizontal linearity with magnets? Mine is completely out of whack with nothing in the service menu to fix it.
Great to know it's been useful. Regarding the magnets, only for arcade monitors with magnetic strips: http://www.arcaderepairtips.com/2014/02 ... ence-tips/
BazookaBen wrote: I guess one more thing that would be useful, and this would probably increase the size of the program, is to include a few photos that you could also load up on an sRGB computer monitor to compare directly and get your color/tint dialed in. After messing with RGB cut/drive in on my TV I thought I had it dialed in but some scenes still look kinda flat in actual games. The SMPTE pattern is OK, but I was never able to get the bottom left colors to match my laptop monitor.
Size wouldn't be an issue. However, that would be of little use, since a PC/laptop monitor isn't calibrated either, and you'd have to set your PC monitor to the same color space and color temperature as your TV. Thats why color test patterns are used. If you really care about that, you can use those patterns and color film strips from a disc like Digital Video Essentials. In short, a laptop monitor isn't a reliable source either.
BazookaBen wrote: Also, gamecube controllers seem to be buggy with this software. It was scrolling through the menus on its own so I had to unplug and use the Wiimote.
That's strange, since they were throughly tested and there have not been other reports regarding this. Maybe you had them off center while booting up the system, or your controller is a little out of shape.

Thanks for the feedback
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by BazookaBen »

I was thinking that most laptop monitors are calibrated to sRGB at factory, at least close enough that you can use them as a general reference for colors, especially in the mid-range colors.

My problem is that I was trying to get rid of red/blue push, where the brighter ranges of color in the color bars start to bleed together. Reducing contrast and individual drive levels only seem to do so much, because the picture eventually gets too dark. So I just lower it the best I can without losing too much brightness. This is when I'm finding I need some photos to use as reference to get the color balance back to something realistic.

Either way, TV certainly looks better than it did before.

EDIT: and yeah, turns out the problem was my gamecube controller. Joystick is a little funky and can be triggering up even though it looks centered.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Guspaz »

BazookaBen wrote:I was thinking that most laptop monitors are calibrated to sRGB at factory, at least close enough that you can use them as a general reference for colors, especially in the mid-range colors.
Most laptop monitors are probably not calibrated at all. Unless the manufacturer explicitly states that it's been calibrated, or you've seen test results from your own testing or a reputable reviewer like Anandtech, then assume that it's not calibrated. Even my 2012 Macbook Air had poor colour accuracy until it was calibrated, and applying the profile makes a large visual difference in the screen (the whole screen takes a noticeably different hue), and Apple tends to care about that sort of thing a lot more than most companies.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

For anyone interested on a physical copy of the Genesis version, they are now available at: http://db-electronics.ca/product/240p-test-suite/ The intention is to give the people without an Everdrive the option to use it. The intention is not to make a profit, but to make it available to a bigger public. It is 20 USD which covers all costs by db-electronics.

The version included is identical to the latest release, which is also a new version. It has an improved Manual Lag Test, since I noticed a lot of people were using this instead of the Lag Test for the camera and both screens.

Now the moving target emits a one frame 1khz tone when passing through the background, and a 500hz tone is played if you press the button on a different frame. I believe this gives you a better empirical idea of the feel of the system, given the audio feedback. Of course this will depend on the audio path and if that signal is delayed.

On the same note, I added the Audio Sync Test, which is a stand alone version that can be used for automated tests. This flashes teh whole screen white at the same time it plays a 1khz tone. This was suggested and tested by Exidna above.

I plan on extending these changes to all other versions of the suite soon.

Here is a picture of the current audio/vidoe frame sync on a scope http://www.mobypicture.com/user/Artemio/view/19152413

Download is available at: https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... CD_MegaCD/
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by BuckoA51 »

I have a feature request! (right after you went ahead and made some cartridges :) )

I'd like a vertically scrolling test, but not a grid. Basically a level/pattern, like with the horizontal scroll test. The reason I ask for this is, when you add scanline overlay to an image (e.g with the OSSC), if there's uneven scanlines it sticks out more on a vertically scrolling game as you can see a ripple type effect as the background pattern passes over the uneven scanline. You can then use this to adjust zoom controls if you have a suitable video processor until the lines become more even.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

BuckoA51 wrote:I have a feature request! (right after you went ahead and made some cartridges :) )

I'd like a vertically scrolling test, but not a grid. Basically a level/pattern, like with the horizontal scroll test. The reason I ask for this is, when you add scanline overlay to an image (e.g with the OSSC), if there's uneven scanlines it sticks out more on a vertically scrolling game as you can see a ripple type effect as the background pattern passes over the uneven scanline. You can then use this to adjust zoom controls if you have a suitable video processor until the lines become more even.
I can fit it into the cartridge if we can work it out fast. Do you have a suggested background that can loop vertically and fgit in teh Genesis palette?
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by BuckoA51 »

Hmm.. perhaps the green hill zone from sonic but just scrolling up then down two screens worth instead of left to right? Otherwise any level from a vertically scrolling shmup.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

It needs to be a very small loop and vertical. Will try to figure something out
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Einzelherz »

While messing around with my new pvm I realized I have some convergence problems. Would it be possible in a future release to have a screen or set of screens with this sort of image:

Image

I think it might be good to have a button toggle it so the individual colors switch places, as well. I'm a little worried that SD screens might not be able to do much with this pattern, though.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

Einzelherz wrote:While messing around with my new pvm I realized I have some convergence problems. Would it be possible in a future release to have a screen or set of screens with this sort of image:

Image

I think it might be good to have a button toggle it so the individual colors switch places, as well. I'm a little worried that SD screens might not be able to do much with this pattern, though.
In theory the white only grid would help you check for that, since you'll see convergence of the three colors at teh same time. Have you tried that? Or is there another reason to add it? Right now I'm working on fitting the vertical scroll test in the available memory for sega CD compatibility... so I could work in that if there is a reason.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Fudoh »

@Einzelherz: what Artemio just said. Use the white grid. If you're using a colored grid like this you're essentially missing convergence errors. For example: a blue or green convergence error wouldn't show on a red cross, but it will show on a white one.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Einzelherz »

I think the point of this type of grid, and I'm guessing here, is that good convergence would make all of the pure color lines align. If red, for instance, is off, it's crosses would not line up vertically/horizontally with the other colors. So if all reds are slightly shifted, you need to adjust red.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

Well, the vertical scroll test did make it into the production cartridges. Downloads are updated in sourceforge as well for version 1.15 /there is now a backup at github as well)

In order to access it, press "C" inside the scroll test to switch between vertical and horizontal. Everything is described inside each tests' help as usual. I'll update all versions of the suite to include the same functionality over the next week, and then update the wiki to reflect the general changes.
Einzelherz wrote:I think the point of this type of grid, and I'm guessing here, is that good convergence would make all of the pure color lines align. If red, for instance, is off, it's crosses would not line up vertically/horizontally with the other colors. So if all reds are slightly shifted, you need to adjust red.
It would work, but the white grid does the same thing all over the screen at the same time. If lines are not white, you see the colors that are not converging instead of pure white. If we can find an extra use that is not already there, we can include it.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Einzelherz »

Artemio wrote: It would work, but the white grid does the same thing all over the screen at the same time. If lines are not white, you see the colors that are not converging instead of pure white. If we can find an extra use that is not already there, we can include it.
I have trouble telling if the lines aren't perfectly white or if there is color separation on one of my monitors. I don't know if it's convergence or that the monitor just isn't as sharp as I'd like it to be and colors are spilling over. I think this grid would help that, especially if it could be manually moved around the screen with the D pad so that you could check any area with the specific guns you want to align.

Again, I could be misunderstanding convergence.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Exidna »

The RGBW cross pattern is no use for direct-view displays.
The phosphors/subpixels are physically separate so a red/green/blue cross can never align perfectly.
Use a white grid with a magnifying glass to set convergence if you're having difficulty seeing it. (or want to get it very exact)

You could use a pattern like that for converging a projector/rear-projection TV which uses separate displays for red/green/blue. (3-chip digital or CRT)
However I found that the best procedure was to set up all your geometry/focus on a green-only grid first, and then switch between full cyan (green+blue) and full yellow (green+red) grids to set your convergence rather than using white, since that means you're only trying to converge two displays at a time, instead of three.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by blizzz »

I'm testing a setup that allows me to do a rough input lag comparison between the Framemeister and OSSC. To test that setup I've used the Lag Test in the SNES version. It works fine (I get the expected ~1.5 frames delay for the Framemeister), however I'm a bit confused by the test screen. Is there a reason why the numbers light up in this order: 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 5 > 1 etc.?

Also, I'm still interested in a Saturn port. Mostly to check the RGB color bars.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

I'll check thar blizzz, I was just about to release a new snes updated version a well do it is perfect timing. (Updated vertical scroll, manual lag test and the audio sync test that is now oscilloscope calibrated)

I'll check on the available saturn tools again, they weren't good enough for my needs last time I checked.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by FBX »

So the color bars test came in real handy (thanks Artemio) for me on the SNES in that I discovered my A/D settings for my 1CHIP-03 was crushing the top three entries for each color. Since there's not yet an N64 test suit, does anyone know of a game or perhaps homebrew that displays a color ramp for the N64?
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by blizzz »

There's an emulated version for the N64 on page 9 of this thread.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Shuco13 »

@FBX
You can also use the NES-version if your N64 flashcard has got a NES-emulator. I used both, the one from page 9 and the NES-version. I'm not sure if the color patterns are really accurate through using them through the N64's emulators. It's at least very helpful to set sharpness and aspect ratio correctly.
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Artemio »

Here is the updated 240p Test Suite for SNES:

Release 1.03:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... leted=true

- Added Audio Sync Test, a 1khz tone is played for two frames with the screen in white, alternating with a pattern. Verified with scope.
- Updated Manual Lag Test so it has one frame audio feedback
- Added Vertical Scroll Test
- Fixed bug in Lag Test, reported by blizzz

Looking into a physical release as well, for those interested. It will of course continue to be free and GPLd as always.

Regarding the N64 version, I don´t have a flash cart for it so it hasn't been in my radar until now that it seems a lot of people want it.

Oh, By the way, I also added a github mirror with releases, for those that hated sourceforge with the last administration https://github.com/ArtemioUrbina/240pTestSuite
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Re: 240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

Post by Guspaz »

I might be interested in a physical release, if only because my physical copy of the previous version lacks a shell, and even if I got it a repro shell, it'd lack a label :P
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