240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

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Fudoh
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Fudoh »

Maybe you can look into that "fake" interlaced mode the SNES supports (the first Ranma title is completey running this way). It would help with checking and diagnosing the re-sync times of processors like the Framemeister.
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CkRtech
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by CkRtech »

Couldn't have happened at a better time. I am making SNES cables. Would like to do some testing. Sixfortyfive is right though - I don't have any way to run the 240p test suite on my SNES systems.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

Fudoh wrote:Maybe you can look into that "fake" interlaced mode the SNES supports (the first Ranma title is completey running this way). It would help with checking and diagnosing the re-sync times of processors like the Framemeister.
Indeed, I had looked into it but forgot to add the options. Here is a 1.01 release that adds an Alternate 240p/480i test and also allows changing the whole thing to between interlaced and progressive.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... /SNES_SFC/
CkRtech wrote:Couldn't have happened at a better time. I am making SNES cables. Would like to do some testing. Sixfortyfive is right though - I don't have any way to run the 240p test suite on my SNES systems.
Yes, this was one of the reasons I focused on Dreamcast, Sega CS and Wii... no extra hadrware is required to run it there. However it is very interesting to check out how different systems behave. The SNES 224 signal is centered starting at line 30 in NTSC, and the Genesis one is a line off starting at 31. It is also noticeable that the interlaced mode is a valid NTSC 480i signal, having even and odd frames marked properly.

Also, it is always fun to see how emulators handle horizontal scaling, interlaced modes and other stuff. The horizontal resolution is something I struggled with during this port, since it is 20% less than on MegaDrive and the rest of the systems. It was a pain adjusting aspect ratios.
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niall
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by niall »

*happy dance*
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Xan
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

Is there a button to force 480p on startup for the Wii version? I'd like to try the manual lag test on my LCD monitor, but I only get a black screen (despite 15 kHz signals being accepted through HDMI according to the manual, weirdly...).
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by BuckoA51 »

Someone should port this to the Amiga too, the more platforms we have the better! 68k based architecture surely can't be that hard (he says, with no clue how to even get started with such a thing).
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

Xan wrote:Is there a button to force 480p on startup for the Wii version? I'd like to try the manual lag test on my LCD monitor, but I only get a black screen (despite 15 kHz signals being accepted through HDMI according to the manual, weirdly...).
No, there isn't. However I'll implement it for the next release since it migt be a good idea for some corner cases.

Meanwhile, here is a build for your case, which boots in 480p if a component cable is detected: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... 0pboot.zip
BuckoA51 wrote:Someone should port this to the Amiga too, the more platforms we have the better! 68k based architecture surely can't be that hard (he says, with no clue how to even get started with such a thing).
That would be great, I'll continue to port it to other platforms as I get my hands on SDKs.
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Xan
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

Thanks Artemio! Lag on the Eizo FS2333 seems to be nearly 1 frame. According to some rumor overscan adds a bit of lag on this monitor, can't confirm it with this test at least...

Also, the Wii Component signal is so dim that I'm constantly asking myself whether I bought garbage with that knock-off Wii2HDMI. But other Component footage I've seen from the Wii seemed dim likewise, so...
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

You really need to use the camera and two displays to do that.

The manual one only gives you an idea of how it feels.
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Xan
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

I did the camera test with a reference CRT a while ago, but with some PC program. The lag was a bit more than 1 frame there. The problem is that a camera with very fast shutter speed seems to be required, and cellphone cameras don't necessarily fulfill that requirement.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by 12345 »

Would it be possible to use the SNES-version of this on a N64 using the SNES-emulator for ED64 or would it be inaccurate?
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

12345 wrote:Would it be possible to use the SNES-version of this on a N64 using the SNES-emulator for ED64 or would it be inaccurate?
I have no idea since I don't have an ED64, saving for one though. If you have one you can try it out. When using PC, Wii and GC emulators many things that are wrong are evident, like aspect ratio, linearity, etc.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by 12345 »

Ok, I'm going to try it out and post my results. But I'm having issues with the installer: http://www.zophar.net/consoles/n64/snes ... alpha.html
Can anybody help me inject the 240p-suite-file into the emulator? I'm having compatibility issues with my windows PC...
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

12345 wrote:Ok, I'm going to try it out and post my results. But I'm having issues with the installer: http://www.zophar.net/consoles/n64/snes ... alpha.html
Can anybody help me inject the 240p-suite-file into the emulator? I'm having compatibility issues with my windows PC...
It was fun to try and check this out, however there were several issues. I have an XP 32 bit virtual machine for this kind of software, but the provided exe crashed with a runtime error 200. Here is how I patched it to run again: http://www.pcmicro.com/elebbs/faq/rte200.html

And here is your n64 rom with the emulator and the 240p suite injected into it, however I have no means of testing it. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... 9X-N64.zip
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Traveller »

Hey.

I am just wondering what to do with the info from the overscan test, I don't quite understand how to apply the numbers to the TV settings.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by 12345 »

Artemio wrote:
12345 wrote:Ok, I'm going to try it out and post my results. But I'm having issues with the installer: http://www.zophar.net/consoles/n64/snes ... alpha.html
Can anybody help me inject the 240p-suite-file into the emulator? I'm having compatibility issues with my windows PC...
It was fun to try and check this out, however there were several issues. I have an XP 32 bit virtual machine for this kind of software, but the provided exe crashed with a runtime error 200. Here is how I patched it to run again: http://www.pcmicro.com/elebbs/faq/rte200.html

And here is your n64 rom with the emulator and the 240p suite injected into it, however I have no means of testing it. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/140 ... 9X-N64.zip
Amazing, absolutely amazing, thank you so much, I'm very happy you took your time to patch it for me. I was afraid nobody could be interested in trying this.
The good news is: It's working! As expected and maybe due to the emulator's capabilities it runs very slowly but at least it's accesible and also very useful.
I'm giving you the results from the short testing I did but keep in mind that I couldn't compare it with the original hardware since I don't own a SNES:
Hardware: RGB-modded N64 with ED64
Controls: DPAD=DPAD, START=START, C-down=confirm, A=back, L/R=previous/next pattern, analog stick doesn't work
Working: No freezes, every test is accessible, switching between test patterns works without slowdowns, pressing RESET brings you back to the ED64 menu without freeze
Issues: Input lag in menus and some tests is arround 2 seconds, switching to 480i works but doesn't change the resolution, no sound at all, manual input lag test seems to me rather pointless because of the slow speed and missing sound, the scrolling test is also not very representative but working, moving the grid is not possible apart from Mode 7 (sorry I only know this feature from the Wii version, maybe the SNES one is different)

In general I was very surprised of how little glitches I could discover during my testing. I have to say I'm really happy to have this for N64 because already for the test patterns it's very well worth to have it.

Ideas for improvement: I don't know if you want to spend more time on this or if it really changes anything but maybe you could try to simplify the menu to lower processing needs. What about leaving the background black or changing to a more basic font? As for the sound I think this might be due to the emulator's limitation.

Anyway, keep up the good work, no matter on which version you're working on!
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

Traveller wrote:Hey.

I am just wondering what to do with the info from the overscan test, I don't quite understand how to apply the numbers to the TV settings.
You can only do something if your display has a way to adjust it. Otherwise, it is just indicative of how many lines it is not showing in a full 240p or 224p signal. BTW, the next release for Wii/GC/DC will include simulations at 224p for linearity, grids and other tests that eed it so that they can be used to calibrate for Genesis, SNES and PSX signals as best as I can replicate them on each system. I am comparing the signals with the scope and counting lines to give a good simulation and comparing them on PVMs.
12345 wrote: Ideas for improvement: I don't know if you want to spend more time on this or if it really changes anything but maybe you could try to simplify the menu to lower processing needs. What about leaving the background black or changing to a more basic font? As for the sound I think this might be due to the emulator's limitation.

Anyway, keep up the good work, no matter on which version you're working on!


I am glad it worked out for you, I honestly didn't expect it to work.

There is really nothing I could simplify in the menus, it does as little as needed. The only thing thatmight slow it down is that soem graphixs are done with sprites precisely to avoid slowdown issues on real hardware.

I'd rather save up money to buy a cart in order to code an N64 version later down the road.
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TheShadowRunner
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by TheShadowRunner »

Hi Artemio,
I wonder if you have plans for a PS2 (or PS1) version of the suite?
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

I am not doing it at the moment, but yesterday I soft modded my Ps2 and it is a possibility now. I need to investigate what SDK options are available.

I am currently starting work on a PC Engine version of the suite.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by TheShadowRunner »

Artemio wrote:I am not doing it at the moment, but yesterday I soft modded my Ps2 and it is a possibility now. I need to investigate what SDK options are available.
Great news!
I am currently starting work on a PC Engine version of the suite.
Ooh very nice as well, thanks for the headsup. 8)
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

A couple new versions of the suite join the rest:

Code: Select all

PC Engine/Turbo Grafx-16:
-------------------------
This version of the suite requires a flash cart, such as the Turbo Everdrive. It has support for 224p and 240p, as well as the 3 horizontal resolutions: 256, 320 and 512. It must be noted that most games in 240p really use only 239 lines, so the suite also supports that video mode. It was developed using HuC and ASM.

PCE Duo/Turbo Duo/CD-ROM2/Super CDROM2:
---------------------------------------
Both versions have the exact same features as the PC Engine one, however there are two variants. The CD-ROM2 version works with Systems that have a System Cars 1.0 or 2.0/2.1, including the American TurboGrafx-16. The Super CD-ROM2 version uses System Card 3.0 or the Arcade Card. The benefit of this SCD version is that it loads only once at startup, and everything is ran from RAM afterwards.
Image

It was a lot of fun coding the PC Engine version of the suite, I am still wondering if I'll add some static screens from games that show jailbars with the RGB mod, or if the solid color screens with user selected RGB screen is good enough for that. Maybe just some color presets in that regard.

At the moment the release has all the possible features from other versions of the suit, adapted to the hardware and taking advantage of its capabilities. I am really impressed by how clean the signal is and the 512x240 resolution. It also notable how good the Sonic Scroll test looks when doing the parallax scrolling with just one background and 4 scroll planes.

It includes the option to enable the Composite comb filter, I did analize how it works with the scope and it is interesting to note that it adds an extra video line to the signal - which cannot be filled with video information. But as a result, the image shifs vertically on CRT displays when enabling it. Then, even frames are rendered normally and odd frames have a filter applied so that when combined they act as a very good comb filter. This if course only works in composite, enabling it or disabling it while in RGB has no effect.

On the same note, options also include the black & white only mode for composite as well.

Regarding the vertical resolution, the suite uses the full 240p signal by default, but includes 224 and 239 as options. The "239" resolution is what games really use, for reasons unknown. The only difference with the full 240p mode is that it displays one less visible line, it is missing the last one. This is caused by starting to draw the video signal form line 24 onward. Why is this a feature? As mentioned above, this is what games use and probably what you'd like to check in corner cases.

Here are the downloads:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/testsu ... -TG16-SCD/

Let me know if you have any suggestions, bug reports and/or typos.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

Are the SMPTE/EBU patterns supposed to work with the chroma auto adjust feature of PVMs? Because I'm looking to calibrate one of mine now, but can't get it to work. It always puts out a signal error. Is there something else to consider, like using a specific input?
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

Depends on the version of the suite you are using. The wii and gamecube versions work.

But remember that the smpte pattern is for ntsc at 7.5 ire.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

I'm using the Wii version over RGB and it doesn't work for some reason. Monitor is a PVM-14M4E.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

Others - one example here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p1026662 - have used it ad it worked in the past. My PVMs don't have such modes to test here unfortunately. However, you don't need it. You can use the PLUGE and color bars with a blue only mode or blue filter to do the calibration.

Just remember that adjusting for 7.5 IRE is for NTSC, games tend to use the full range (0-255).
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

Yep, I didn't really need it indeed. My main issue was that dark hues had a very green tint on this monitor, which I worked out by reducing green bias and boosting red/blue bias.

I got the bit about 3.5 IRE corresponding to 0 RGB, I calibrated it with that in mind (reducing brightness until it's barely visible, then going one step down). Equals to about -10 in the sub control menu.

Regarding contrast/white level, on the SNES suite I can just barely distinguish between the higher values on the color bar screen, is that normal? Fiddling around with contrast and RGB gain doesn't help much at all, I'm guessing that sort of adjustment is out of range without a colorimeter to give precise values.

Thanks for the help.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

Xan wrote:I got the bit about 3.5 IRE corresponding to 0 RGB, I calibrated it with that in mind (reducing brightness until it's barely visible, then going one step down). Equals to about -10 in the sub control menu.
You can toggle to Full range RGB in the PLUGE, and calibrate against 1 or 2 IRE.
Xan wrote:Regarding contrast/white level, on the SNES suite I can just barely distinguish between the higher values on the color bar screen, is that normal? Fiddling around with contrast and RGB gain doesn't help much at all, I'm guessing that sort of adjustment is out of range without a colorimeter to give precise values.
It is a very subtle difference, but it is present. If you barely distinguish it, it is alright. Does it happen to you in the Wii version as well? Is this an NTSC or PAL SNES? I ask because they have different standards for the cable, one has capacitors and the other resistors. It could affect in that way if your cable has the components for a different region. Just asking to cover all corner cases.
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Xan
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Xan »

It's a RGB-02 Super Famicom with original Nintendo PAL GC RGB cable, so the cable is correct. Looking at it again I can see a very slight difference between C and E though so I guess it's alright. On the Wii version I can definitely tell them apart better; thinking about it now it's most likely a matter of signal quality, especially since my SFC isn't exactly one of the best revisions. I even have some visible checkerboard patterns (on 10 IRE for instance) which I originally thought to be due to sync issues, but there isn't any of that on the Wii at all...
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by CkRtech »

Probably worth dropping this here as it seems like the best place -

Perhaps I am wrong, but the SNES has seemed to be a little high in saturation on the various displays I have seen it use. It has had me wondering whether or not the output of the console (at least the NTSC-based U.S. systems I have seen) + the expected/assumed components in the cables isn't a little too strong. I suppose any discrepancy in expected output can naturally be compensated at the display, however using the same display for a SNES that you would for a Sega Genesis (in particular) would most likely have noticeably different results at the display when it comes to the color pattern.

Just out of curiousity (and I apologize if I have missed it already in this thread), Artemio - have you run solid color screen output from the SNES to a scope and checked to see if you are reading 0.7v p-> p? I would run it myself, however I do not have a flash cart for the SNES.
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Re: 240p test suite for Dreamcast,Wii,SNES,GC,Genesis and SC

Post by Artemio »

A first gen SNES gives me 656mV and a Genesis 2 gives me 624mV both in a white full screen. Just measured these with what I had at hand. When I coded the suite for each one I did take measures of almost everything, but I can't find them right now.
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