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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:57 pm 


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Cool! I cannot wait for the OSSC Pro to come out soon!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:47 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
The OSSC should be able to take everything from 240p to 1080p on every input.


Speaking of the OSSC, I wonder how the Pro will deal with switching between 480i/240p mode content VS gbscontrol. I want the Pro to be a winner, but there is already some hedging going on in the description.

Quote:
Frame buffer mode will also allow for input and output frame rates to be de-coupled. This should help with games that switch between 240p and 480i output modes. The trade off is loss of completely smooth, judder free scrolling, but for games rendered completely unplayable on modern TVs it’s a trade off worth making.


The bit about judder is what piqued my interest. I wonder how that will compare with gbscontrol.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:14 am 


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I have another question, and I was trying to find a video that explains this, no luck...

When you hook up a SNES with SCART into the OSSC 1.6, is the sound carried on the output HDMI cable into the TV or receiver? Then, can I hear it through my speakers with just an HDMI cable?

I just want to make sure before I shell out money for this...

Thanks.

Erik W.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:26 am 


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erik343 wrote:
I have another question, and I was trying to find a video that explains this, no luck...

When you hook up a SNES with SCART into the OSSC 1.6, is the sound carried on the output HDMI cable into the TV or receiver? Then, can I hear it through my speakers with just an HDMI cable?

I just want to make sure before I shell out money for this...

Thanks.

Erik W.


There is an OSSC thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158&start=7470

Also, the VGP website forum is basically the defacto OSSC forum if you are having trouble finding answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:49 am 


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Quote:
When you hook up a SNES with SCART into the OSSC 1.6, is the sound carried on the output HDMI cable into the TV or receiver? Then, can I hear it through my speakers with just an HDMI cable?

yes, of course.

The Framemeister, by the way, is not great at handling 480p sources, so it's not really recommend to input those, either by RGB or via component. The OSSC is much better at this and if you need scaling for 720p, there are other scaling solutions out there, that will do a much better job than the FM.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:38 am 


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Dr. Claw wrote:
This latest development is driving me mad.

Here's my setup: Consoles -> Impact 6x2 ---> TV YPbPr (Output 1), OSSC (Output 2). From OSSC it goes to a Blackbird 5x1 4K Presentation switch to the TV.

My issue is specifically with the SNES (which BTW is a stock 2-CHIP from '91). I have been using transcoded S-Video first through a RetroTink to cheap component transcoder, and now through the Koryuu to use with the TV and OSSC. In the latter case I get 5x OSSC compatibility either through the Blackbird or directly to the TV.

Without OSSC, my TV treats this signal as "480i" but I really can't tell that this is an interlaced signal. Flashing objects appear appropriately, there is no combing, and as long as I use "game mode" there is not any real obtrusive lag. This is true of other 240p signals (i.e. Genesis, PS1 on PS2, Saturn). As an added bonus, when playing a game like Chrono Cross through the Component input, there is no blackout when going from game play to menu.

Then I got HD Retrovision cables for the SNES. Unlike other consoles, the picture blinks in and out when viewing through the component input. I still get 5x on OSSC, provided it goes through the Blackbird.

This behavior is present on both of the flat panels on which I game: a Sony 4K TV (X720E), and an older Sony 1080p TV (EX400 32").

But here's something weird: if I take the HD Retrovision cables and plug them into the Retrotink and put it in transcoding mode (240p out) and then plug the output directly to the TV, I get a stable picture with no "blinking". The TV treats it like all other 240p sources.

I'm aware of the SNES jitter issues but I have only seen this with 240p over component. Composite and (transcoded) S-Video work fine on these TVs and in the OSSC. Are those not 240p as well? Transcoded COMPONENT at 240p works with a RetroTink. Anyone else experienced this?



It gets even more hilarious.
So I plugged the SNES (using HD Retrovision cables) into the RetroTink, set it on transcode mode.
Then I plugged the output into the cheap HDMI to YPbPr transcoder that Mike Chi once used in a demo video.
I then plugged the output of the YPbPr transcoder directly into the TV.

The result? a stable, no blinking image from the SNES, presented as "480i". I will confirm what the TV is actually doing once I get my hands on a copy of the 240p suite.

Make it make sense!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:52 pm 


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I saw a video of Vaultar CSYNC modding the Playstation 1: https://www.retrorgb.com/voultars-ps1-mod-video.html or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5NSWS-znc

I am just wondering if anybody here has done this, and if you like the results or not?

I am basically just worried that the CSYNC might not align properly with the RGB color lines. Can the timings be off (between sync and RGB signals) after this mod, or will it cause problems?

I don't want to do this mod if it is going to cause problems and I don't want to damage my PS1 (or PS2).

EDIT:
Also, note that they are taking CSYNC directly from pin 156 of the GPU. Is there another location to pull CSYNC from that would be more optimal?

Thanks!

Erik W.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:52 pm 



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erik343 wrote:
I saw a video of Vaultar CSYNC modding the Playstation 1: https://www.retrorgb.com/voultars-ps1-mod-video.html or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5NSWS-znc

I am just wondering if anybody here has done this, and if you like the results or not?

I am basically just worried that the CSYNC might not align properly with the RGB color lines. Can the timings be off (between sync and RGB signals) after this mod, or will it cause problems?

I don't want to do this mod if it is going to cause problems and I don't want to damage my PS1 (or PS2).

EDIT:
Also, note that they are taking CSYNC directly from pin 156 of the GPU. Is there another location to pull CSYNC from that would be more optimal?

Thanks!

Erik W.


Unless you have equipment specifically needing CSYNC then there's no reason to go with CSYNC over Sync on Luma. The difference is minimal to none existent.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:57 pm 


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I am aware the luma works just fine mostly. But, I am also asking this question because I am going to do the same mod to my Playstation 2, in order to make it so I don't have to use Sync on Green for 480p mode; essentially all PS2 resolutions will be modded to use straight RGBS instead! I don't want to have to get the Extron CrossPoint 203 RXI hooked up with a sync stripper, I just want it to work without these devices right out of the box.

But, I am trying to do the mods for fun and as a hobby. I also desire to learn about electronics in general. Also, a clean sync signal will have minimal crosstalk, and even less with shielded cables. CSYNC should also have no checker-boarding issues!

I took two classes in school about computer organization, and another course on electricity and magnatism. The Computer Organization classes consisted of CPU logic internals and various types of logic gates and components.

I found this chip diagram on the Internet too: https://imgur.com/9zfTB4r

I am looking at this, and it is interesting. I can probably figure out the PS1/PS2 CSYNC mod answer via studying this diagram... Also, I got some electronics books to read first, which will make things easier to understand.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:24 pm 


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Obviously it's good to plan ahead but it sounds like you have a very complicated setup mapped out without actually having anything in place. I think it would be better to build up from something more simple, as it is very unlikely that you will be able to just plug all this in at once and have it work.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:02 pm 


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erik343 wrote:
I am aware the luma works just fine mostly. But, I am also asking this question because I am going to do the same mod to my Playstation 2, in order to make it so I don't have to use Sync on Green for 480p mode


I don't have any issues with my PS2 and a 203.

Kez wrote:
Obviously it's good to plan ahead but it sounds like you have a very complicated setup mapped out without actually having anything in place. I think it would be better to build up from something more simple, as it is very unlikely that you will be able to just plug all this in at once and have it work.


I agree, you seem a little eager beaver about this. OP, you aren't going to have any shortage of connection issues to solve, not need to go inventing them.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:50 pm 


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With the PS2 and the RetroTink RGB2COMP, 480p works for me without issue on the games that support it. Wonder if that would also be true on an Extron...


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:53 pm 


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Quote:
With the PS2 and the RetroTink RGB2COMP, 480p works for me without issue on the games that support it.

The RGB2COMP should not be able to accept RGsB. How do you manage to get that working?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:08 pm 


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Yes, I would say that I am tenacious about this hobby!

Also, I have not started on my Nintendo reworking yet because I have another project I have to finish first. I think I did enough prepwork, so that I understand how to get started on the video game console modding.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:23 am 


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Can the audio output jack on the OSSC be used with a pair of headphones? I mean, I would assume they would work, but the question is more, is there volume adjustment or would the headphones just blow my ear drums out
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:07 pm 



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Hello everyone, first time posting, was hoping someone could answer a question I've got.

A little while ago RetroRGB Bob posted a schematic on his website for a passive sync combiner using a transistor. This schematic shows a 1K Ohm resistor tied to ground along with the 470 Ohm resistor often used to bring the voltage down for 75 Ohm inputs. Bob states that while this 1K Ohm resistor tied to ground is optional, it allows the Csync output to be driven into both TTL and 75 Ohm inputs instead of only 75 Ohm when it's omitted.

My question is: Would using this extra 1K Ohm resistor also work on a sync stripper's Csync output like an LM1881, or perhaps even a console's own TTL Csync output? I've never seen this extra resistor being used before and thought it would be quite neat if it could work elsewhere.

Here's the article: https://www.retrorgb.com/building-a-passive-sync-combiner.html


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:53 pm 


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Top-tier expert question: why does a hard telecine viewed interlaced on a CRT look smoother in motion compared to a soft telecine viewed interlaced as well ?

hard telecine = 3:2 pulldown from 24fps "baked" into the source material. Like in laserdisc or pre-2001 DVDs.
soft telecine = 24fps material stored on disc. 3:2 pulldown added by the MPEG2 decoder. Used on most studio DVDs beginning in late 2001.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:00 pm 



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cave hermit wrote:
Can the audio output jack on the OSSC be used with a pair of headphones? I mean, I would assume they would work, but the question is more, is there volume adjustment or would the headphones just blow my ear drums out

That TRS jack (in addition to being an input for AV2) is just a breakout for AV1; so you can expect it to be line-level, meaning you'll probably want to source an inline volume control, and it would not output audio from AV2 or AV3.

Also, using that for audio output would really be no different to using an RCA->TRS adapter, except that that adapter could then be connected to sources hooked up to AV2 or AV3.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:06 am 



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Fudoh wrote:
Top-tier expert question: why does a hard telecine viewed interlaced on a CRT look smoother in motion compared to a soft telecine viewed interlaced as well ?

hard telecine = 3:2 pulldown from 24fps "baked" into the source material. Like in laserdisc or pre-2001 DVDs.
soft telecine = 24fps material stored on disc. 3:2 pulldown added by the MPEG2 decoder. Used on most studio DVDs beginning in late 2001.


It could be "advanced pulldown" mentioned at the end of the 2:3 pulldown section here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#2:3_pulldown


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:12 am 


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thanks! didn't know that existed. I doubt that's it though, since the deinterlacing algorithm is the same for both cases I mentioned, while this "advaced 2:3:3:2 cadence" would require a different deinterlacing approach.

My idea would be going towards inter-field resolution and crosstalk between fields from compression.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:29 am 



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What's the best option for a switchable cable (480i and 480p) for the Dreamcast and the BKM 68X?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:33 pm 


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DatMonkey wrote:
What's the best option for a switchable cable (480i and 480p) for the Dreamcast and the BKM 68X?


https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... cart-cable

they may be able to special make it with BNCs if you contact, but not sure because pandemic has interrupted their workflow.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:39 pm 



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Anyone know what exact model this is? Available nearby.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:27 pm 


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Osirus wrote:
Anyone know what exact model this is? Available nearby.

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Go check it out. Good CRTs are getting rare. If you have a test pattern machine, take that instead of a game system.

If it's bad, thank the seller for their time and leave immediately.

If it's good: Stay quiet, frown, run patterns twice, give lukewarm compliments, and negotiate a cheap price. Don't say a word about video games.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:40 pm 



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Ignoring source and display-related limitations, is it not technically true that analogue video has infinite colour depth, or shades of red, green and blue? Apologies if that's a very basic question :P


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:00 am 


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ross wrote:
Ignoring source and display-related limitations, is it not technically true that analogue video has infinite colour depth, or shades of red, green and blue?


I don't think you can ignore all that. You can hypothesize a perfect analog display, but as long as you are working within the frame of the real-world, you must include the signal source and the analog deflection circuitry as part of the display.

You are physically limited by the size of the phosphors and the ability of the gun to draw at specific intensities. If your deflection circuit can't hold the intensity past a certain tolerance, you don't get to resolve color any farther than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:14 am 


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it's a KD prefix FD Trinitron

KD-(screensize)FS(quality tier)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:19 am 


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Osirus wrote:
Anyone know what exact model this is? Available nearby.



Looks like either a 27 or 32" FS120.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:39 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
ross wrote:
Ignoring source and display-related limitations, is it not technically true that analogue video has infinite colour depth, or shades of red, green and blue?


I don't think you can ignore all that. You can hypothesize a perfect analog display, but as long as you are working within the frame of the real-world, you must include the signal source and the analog deflection circuitry as part of the display.

You are physically limited by the size of the phosphors and the ability of the gun to draw at specific intensities. If your deflection circuit can't hold the intensity past a certain tolerance, you don't get to resolve color any farther than that.

I suppose it then comes down to whether a CRT can resolve colour detail down to a level where the differences become imperceptible to our eyes. Has anyone (not just here, in general) ever tried to measure this? I imagine it could vary quite a bit between TVs and professional monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:01 pm 


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ross wrote:
I imagine it could vary quite a bit between TVs and professional monitors.


Quite a bit. That's why the fancy last-gen computer CRTs are so special. They were designed to work with the color-correct workflows of the day.


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