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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:58 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 147
ldeveraux wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
buying arcade sticks for each and every console seems like it would be overkill, on the cash money department. is there a a way to use an current gen arcade stick on older consoles using some kind of adapter?


I have both of these, but haven't had the patience to test either of them. Likely the Kade will do what you want, but not sure if anyone other than myself received theirs. I think the Bliss Box is only USB, so no on retro consoles.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ka ... tro-gaming

https://bliss-box.net/


thats neat. kade website seems to be dead. theres another one i found called retropad32 but that looks like it does not support saturn (yet?). these boxes looks like the perfect products though, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:36 am 


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Location: n/america
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
thank you friends.
two questions:


If someone else answered you, I didn't catch it.

Quote:
1. i see the sleeve reference in that RCA connector, but where would the sleeve be if it was a wire? and what would tip be?


If you have a wire that is already soldered on one side, you would use the continuity setting on a multimeter to check the tip and sleeve, end to end. If you look at this one, the continuity setting is in the lower right of the dial, indicated by the symbol of and arrow and a cross; there is also an audio symbol next to it to indicate that it will make a sound when you have continuity:
https://www.amazon.com/AstroAI-Digital- ... s9dHJ1ZQ==



Quote:
2. do you see in the unbalanced diagram how the gray wire has a C going from - to sleeve? does this mean tip is wired to + and sleeve is wired to both - and sleeve?


Unbalanced audio RCA has (+) on the tip and (-) on the sleeve. In the extron diagram, what you see is two different wiring positions for unbalanced, one for input and the other for output. The input requests that you chain the sleeve and the ground together. The output says to use only the ground output for the sleeve and to leave the (-) unconnected. The circuit probably defaults to balanced if it sees a connection on that terminal.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:33 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Can I plug a BKM-10R to a Sony PVM-20L5 to take advantage of the rgb/comp switching?

If not, what are the alternatives for plugging a remote into the PVM 20L5?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:04 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 429
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
buying arcade sticks for each and every console seems like it would be overkill, on the cash money department. is there a a way to use an current gen arcade stick on older consoles using some kind of adapter?

Brook has a series of converter adapters that are around $40 each. There's also the Brook Retro Board but if you want current gen support as well it's another $117. There's no cheap way about it if you want to play a lot of systems or retain current gen compatibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:54 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1018
SimplyEric wrote:
Can I plug a BKM-10R to a Sony PVM-20L5 to take advantage of the rgb/comp switching?

If not, what are the alternatives for plugging a remote into the PVM 20L5?


One of the biggest flaws of the L5's are their cheap controls (based off the ancient cube style PVM's design) where it takes something like THIRTEEN button presses to switch from RGB to YPbPr/Component (instead of being able to do that WAY quicker on a non-L5 PVM, or a single button press on a BVM). I mean, just turning the volume up or down or adjusting contrast is WAY harder on a L5.

Many people suggest getting a BKM-129x input card, where it remembers which input-set is setup as RGBS or YPbPr and you can switch with a single press of a button.

People also use YPbPr to RGBS (or vice versus) to transcode their systems so they're all the same (that's what I use to convert the minority YPbPr consoles to RGBS so everything is standardized).

Anyway, to answer your question I don't think a BKM-10R can hook-up directly to a 20L5 (or I've never tried at least). You'll have to loop through a BVM itself to go to the 20L5 (just like you would hookup multiple BVM's together so you can control them all with one controller). If you look on page 20 of the manual it does tell you what you can do, but I've never figured out the Channel 1-4 thing where it mentions you can "set the channel for INPUT, ASPECT and SCAN SIZE." Does the "Input" mean it'll save RGBS vs YPbPr? I don't think so, unfortunately, I think that's just going from RGB/Comp input to the Option A (for input card) or to Line 1 or 2 (composite or S-Video inputs).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:59 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Dochartaigh wrote:
SimplyEric wrote:
Can I plug a BKM-10R to a Sony PVM-20L5 to take advantage of the rgb/comp switching?

If not, what are the alternatives for plugging a remote into the PVM 20L5?


One of the biggest flaws of the L5's are their cheap controls (based off the ancient cube style PVM's design) where it takes something like THIRTEEN button presses to switch from RGB to YPbPr/Component (instead of being able to do that WAY quicker on a non-L5 PVM, or a single button press on a BVM). I mean, just turning the volume up or down or adjusting contrast is WAY harder on a L5.

Many people suggest getting a BKM-129x input card, where it remembers which input-set is setup as RGBS or YPbPr and you can switch with a single press of a button.

People also use YPbPr to RGBS (or vice versus) to transcode their systems so they're all the same (that's what I use to convert the minority YPbPr consoles to RGBS so everything is standardized).

Anyway, to answer your question I don't think a BKM-10R can hook-up directly to a 20L5 (or I've never tried at least). You'll have to loop through a BVM itself to go to the 20L5 (just like you would hookup multiple BVM's together so you can control them all with one controller). If you look on page 20 of the manual it does tell you what you can do, but I've never figured out the Channel 1-4 thing where it mentions you can "set the channel for INPUT, ASPECT and SCAN SIZE." Does the "Input" mean it'll save RGBS vs YPbPr? I don't think so, unfortunately, I think that's just going from RGB/Comp input to the Option A (for input card) or to Line 1 or 2 (composite or S-Video inputs).


I made a thread earlier which unfortunately nobody responded to. It was the fact that all I had was a BKM-129x to work with because the back ports are busted (or maybe I'm missing something but I sure as hell don't know how to "fix" it).

So I was hoping for a control unit solution. Or something to allow me to not have to go through 5000 buttons to switch formats. You guys might think I'm whining too much but it gets tiring REALLY fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:25 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1018
SimplyEric wrote:
I made a thread earlier which unfortunately nobody responded to. It was the fact that all I had was a BKM-129x to work with because the back ports are busted (or maybe I'm missing something but I sure as hell don't know how to "fix" it).

So I was hoping for a control unit solution. Or something to allow me to not have to go through 5000 buttons to switch formats. You guys might think I'm whining too much but it gets tiring REALLY fast.


Get a converter then. My only system of the 15 I have that doesn't do RGB is my Wii (and GC, but I play GC through the Wii normally), and my 2nd non-modded OG Xbox.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:13 am 


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A PVM can't hold a separate calibration for RGB and component anyway so I just run it all one way. On mine there's like a 2-5% difference in color accuracy from rgb to comp.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:05 am 


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Location: Montréal, Canada
PVMs have other ways to store separate calibrations. The "underscan" and "16:9" modes, which usually have front panel buttons (unlike RGB vs Component) are nothing more than service menu presets. You can use them for whatever you want.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:14 am 



Joined: 17 Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Dochartaigh wrote:
SimplyEric wrote:
I made a thread earlier which unfortunately nobody responded to. It was the fact that all I had was a BKM-129x to work with because the back ports are busted (or maybe I'm missing something but I sure as hell don't know how to "fix" it).

So I was hoping for a control unit solution. Or something to allow me to not have to go through 5000 buttons to switch formats. You guys might think I'm whining too much but it gets tiring REALLY fast.


Get a converter then. My only system of the 15 I have that doesn't do RGB is my Wii (and GC, but I play GC through the Wii normally), and my 2nd non-modded OG Xbox.

Any recommendations?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:07 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
PVMs have other ways to store separate calibrations. The "underscan" and "16:9" modes, which usually have front panel buttons (unlike RGB vs Component) are nothing more than service menu presets. You can use them for whatever you want.


I don't recall them changing the color offsets, only the geometry. But admittedly it's been a long time.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:05 pm 


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Location: Montréal, Canada
Ah, well, I don't think I specifically checked the colour offsets.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:01 am 



Joined: 17 Sep 2019
Posts: 6
Dochartaigh wrote:
SimplyEric wrote:
Can I plug a BKM-10R to a Sony PVM-20L5 to take advantage of the rgb/comp switching?

If not, what are the alternatives for plugging a remote into the PVM 20L5?


One of the biggest flaws of the L5's are their cheap controls (based off the ancient cube style PVM's design) where it takes something like THIRTEEN button presses to switch from RGB to YPbPr/Component (instead of being able to do that WAY quicker on a non-L5 PVM, or a single button press on a BVM). I mean, just turning the volume up or down or adjusting contrast is WAY harder on a L5.

Many people suggest getting a BKM-129x input card, where it remembers which input-set is setup as RGBS or YPbPr and you can switch with a single press of a button.

People also use YPbPr to RGBS (or vice versus) to transcode their systems so they're all the same (that's what I use to convert the minority YPbPr consoles to RGBS so everything is standardized).

Anyway, to answer your question I don't think a BKM-10R can hook-up directly to a 20L5 (or I've never tried at least). You'll have to loop through a BVM itself to go to the 20L5 (just like you would hookup multiple BVM's together so you can control them all with one controller). If you look on page 20 of the manual it does tell you what you can do, but I've never figured out the Channel 1-4 thing where it mentions you can "set the channel for INPUT, ASPECT and SCAN SIZE." Does the "Input" mean it'll save RGBS vs YPbPr? I don't think so, unfortunately, I think that's just going from RGB/Comp input to the Option A (for input card) or to Line 1 or 2 (composite or S-Video inputs).


I confirmed that the serial remote PIN corresponding to RGB/Component doesn't do anything special. All it does is navigate to the input. So there's no "faster" way to actually switch color formats.
Best option would be transcoding like you said. I'm looking into stuff like that now. It was easy to test actually. I set all the pins to RGB/COMPONENT then plugged an rj45 from my extron to the PVM. All it took was a wiggle of the cable to get it to do something.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:57 pm 


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Posts: 47
I'm looking at getting this Dreamcast SCART cable to play my incoming Dreamcast using 480p on my D and A series BVM monitors.

https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... 5604207667

I currently have a couple of spare SCART to BNC adaptors, but they include sync strippers in them and the Dreamcast cable already cleans up the sync for use with monitors. Would there be any issue in using one of my converters with this cable, or would I need one that simply does straight pass-through of the signal?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:51 am 


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Posts: 983
Chomolonzo wrote:
I'm looking at getting this Dreamcast SCART cable to play my incoming Dreamcast using 480p on my D and A series BVM monitors.

https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... 5604207667

I currently have a couple of spare SCART to BNC adaptors, but they include sync strippers in them and the Dreamcast cable already cleans up the sync for use with monitors. Would there be any issue in using one of my converters with this cable, or would I need one that simply does straight pass-through of the signal?

The sync strippers will likely not work at all. Most of them are based on the LM1881 which does not support 480p


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:10 am 


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Posts: 47
maxtherabbit wrote:
Chomolonzo wrote:
I'm looking at getting this Dreamcast SCART cable to play my incoming Dreamcast using 480p on my D and A series BVM monitors.

https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... 5604207667

I currently have a couple of spare SCART to BNC adaptors, but they include sync strippers in them and the Dreamcast cable already cleans up the sync for use with monitors. Would there be any issue in using one of my converters with this cable, or would I need one that simply does straight pass-through of the signal?

The sync strippers will likely not work at all. Most of them are based on the LM1881 which does not support 480p


Thanks for the reply. So does that mean that the adaptor itself will not work at all? If that's the case, any idea what my best option for getting 480p signal from my Dreamcast into my Extron Crosspoint would be?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:19 am 


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Chomolonzo wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Chomolonzo wrote:
I'm looking at getting this Dreamcast SCART cable to play my incoming Dreamcast using 480p on my D and A series BVM monitors.

https://retro-access.com/products/dream ... 5604207667

I currently have a couple of spare SCART to BNC adaptors, but they include sync strippers in them and the Dreamcast cable already cleans up the sync for use with monitors. Would there be any issue in using one of my converters with this cable, or would I need one that simply does straight pass-through of the signal?

The sync strippers will likely not work at all. Most of them are based on the LM1881 which does not support 480p


Thanks for the reply. So does that mean that the adaptor itself will not work at all? If that's the case, any idea what my best option for getting 480p signal from my Dreamcast into my Extron Crosspoint would be?

I *think* Retro Access makes a Dreamcasr cable with the same sync combination circuit as the one you were looking at in a BNC version instead of SCART. Due to the bizarre nature of their website and inventory system, I don't know how you would acquire it without waiting for a Sunday morning restock or contacting them by special request


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:55 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
I *think* Retro Access makes a Dreamcasr cable with the same sync combination circuit as the one you were looking at in a BNC version instead of SCART. Due to the bizarre nature of their website and inventory system, I don't know how you would acquire it without waiting for a Sunday morning restock or contacting them by special request


A google search will bring up the cable you're talking about, but you can't find it by clicking the Dreamcast link on their site. So, either they've stopped making it, or out of stock items like it only pop back up when they're back in stock. I'll shoot them a message and see what they say, though. I've also managed to swap out the sync separator adaptor with a straight passthrough one for my SNES. SNES seems fine with the csync cable, so if all else fails I can hopefully use the passthrough cable.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:24 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 1018
maxtherabbit wrote:
The sync strippers will likely not work at all. Most of them are based on the LM1881 which does not support 480p


This can't be true. The only cables I have for my PS2 uses one of these two sync strippers (which my Extron Crosspoint needs), both of which are listed as using the LM1881, and I've done 480p through RGsB on my PS2 multiple times before:

https://console5.com/store/lm1881-pcb-bundle.html

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/son ... m-monitors

Am I missing something? Does it differ because the PS2 uses RGsB over SCART for 480p instead of RGBS?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:41 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Does it differ because the PS2 uses RGsB over SCART for 480p instead of RGBS?

Yes

the sync stripper isn't doing anything when the console is in RGsB mode, since it only strips sync from CVBS or Y, not Green


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:17 pm 


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As far as I can tell, there's no reason why the LM1881 can't be used to produce an RGsBS signal. It should be able to pull sync from green just fine. It's not a sync stripper, though, it's a sync separator. It can't remove sync from a video signal, but it can produce a separate composite sync signal.

All that said, this only works if your circuit is actually designed to do this.


Last edited by Guspaz on Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:19 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
As far as I can tell, there's no reason why the LM1881 can't be used to produce an RGsBS signal. It should be able to pull sync from green just fine. It's not a sync stripper, though, it's a sync separator. It can't remove sync from a video signal, but it can produce a separate composite sync signal.

I'm not disputing that, I'm just saying that when you buy a premade PS2 cable with an integrated LM1881, it's going to be wired to pull sync from CVBS or luma, not green


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:54 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1567
maxtherabbit wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
As far as I can tell, there's no reason why the LM1881 can't be used to produce an RGsBS signal. It should be able to pull sync from green just fine. It's not a sync stripper, though, it's a sync separator. It can't remove sync from a video signal, but it can produce a separate composite sync signal.

I'm not disputing that, I'm just saying that when you buy a premade PS2 cable with an integrated LM1881, it's going to be wired to pull sync from CVBS or luma, not green

How would one wire an LM1881 to pull from both green and CVBS/luma? Does it have a separate pin for green?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:32 pm 


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It wouldn't. It'd require different circuits.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:49 am 



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 33
Don't Green and Luma share the same pinout connection for PS2? Hence why you can use PS2 component cables for RGsB with PVMs or the OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 am 


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makar1 wrote:
Don't Green and Luma share the same pinout connection for PS2? Hence why you can use PS2 component cables for RGsB with PVMs or the OSSC.

for luma in component video, yes
for luma in s-video, no

in any factory cable, the LM1881 is going to be wired to pull sync from pin 5 or 6 on the multiout, not pin 12 (since that would make it useless in all 15kHz modes)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:49 am 



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maxtherabbit wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
Does it differ because the PS2 uses RGsB over SCART for 480p instead of RGBS?

Yes

the sync stripper isn't doing anything when the console is in RGsB mode, since it only strips sync from CVBS or Y, not Green


I always thought that Extron Crosspoints won't pass through ANY type of sync except CSYNC (this is from stock phat PS2's, no mods done to them fyi). It would be odd if it only had that limitation on the Sync line (which is usually setup using the Horizontal Sync line). ...and if that was the case couldn't people just bypassing that limitation by switching the sync line to one of the R/G/B lines (on both sides of course) then never have to worry about using sync strippers with a Crosspoint?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:12 am 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
Does it differ because the PS2 uses RGsB over SCART for 480p instead of RGBS?

Yes

the sync stripper isn't doing anything when the console is in RGsB mode, since it only strips sync from CVBS or Y, not Green


I always thought that Extron Crosspoints won't pass through ANY type of sync except CSYNC (this is from stock phat PS2's, no mods done to them fyi). It would be odd if it only had that limitation on the Sync line (which is usually setup using the Horizontal Sync line). ...and if that was the case couldn't people just bypassing that limitation by switching the sync line to one of the R/G/B lines (on both sides of course) then never have to worry about using sync strippers with a Crosspoint?

I can't speak for what people do or don't do, but the crosspoint can handle SoG just fine, it's in the spec sheet. It cannot handle sync-on-video on the dedicated sync inputs.

But think about what you're suggesting, if people "switch the sync line to one of the R/G/B lines" what happens to the R/G/B signal that got replaced? That doesn't make any sense unless you want to base your entire setup around Sync on Green

The bottom line is: since you stated that your PS2 is not modded, when you switch to 480p on the PS2 it is outputting sync on green, bypassing your LM1881 and passing the SoG through the crosspoint without issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:02 am 



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Dochartaigh wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
Does it differ because the PS2 uses RGsB over SCART for 480p instead of RGBS?

Yes

the sync stripper isn't doing anything when the console is in RGsB mode, since it only strips sync from CVBS or Y, not Green


I always thought that Extron Crosspoints won't pass through ANY type of sync except CSYNC (this is from stock phat PS2's, no mods done to them fyi). It would be odd if it only had that limitation on the Sync line (which is usually setup using the Horizontal Sync line). ...and if that was the case couldn't people just bypassing that limitation by switching the sync line to one of the R/G/B lines (on both sides of course) then never have to worry about using sync strippers with a Crosspoint?

It would be messy, it would require two inputs per affected console, and you're going to have a hard time mixing affected consoles with unaffected consoles, but it should work fine.

CrossPoints can take pretty much everything except RF; so you could have, for example, RGB signals coming in on input 1 and composite video coming in on input 2 (on the R or G line), and then map input 1 to output 1 and input 2 to output 2, then you'd pull RGB from output 1 and sync from output 2; but that still doesn't really solve the underlying issue that Extron's CrossPoints and RGB interfaces don't accept anything besides clean composite sync.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:34 pm 



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Does a 120hz, 144hz or 240hz refresh rate make 60hz content look any smoother? Does it reduce display lag?


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