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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:19 pm 



Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 55
Hello all. I'm considering doing an RGB mod on my N64 but I have a question before I proceed. I realize that S-video can still be used with an RGB amp installed, but is the S-video output signal affected at all by the presence of the RGB amp? Or will picture quality over S-video still be identical?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1364
GojiFan90 wrote:
Hello all. I'm considering doing an RGB mod on my N64 but I have a question before I proceed. I realize that S-video can still be used with an RGB amp installed, but is the S-video output signal affected at all by the presence of the RGB amp? Or will picture quality over S-video still be identical?

S-Video functionality won't be affected.

RGB should be as clear as S-Video, but the colors will be better; it won't be as revolutionary a jump from S-Video to RGB as the one from composite to S-Video.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:52 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
GojiFan90 wrote:
Hello all. I'm considering doing an RGB mod on my N64 but I have a question before I proceed. I realize that S-video can still be used with an RGB amp installed, but is the S-video output signal affected at all by the presence of the RGB amp? Or will picture quality over S-video still be identical?

S-Video functionality won't be affected.

RGB should be as clear as S-Video, but the colors will be better; it won't be as revolutionary a jump from S-Video to RGB as the one from composite to S-Video.

Correct

The onboard video encoder's output is not altered in anyway. CVBS and Y/C will not change whatsoever


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:42 pm 


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Has anyone here used the Sega Saturn Mission Stick? I have a Japanese one (in diarrhoea brown) and it works okay, but it seems overly sensitive, like it has no deadzone at all. When the stick is centred or let go of, the crosshair/character wobbles about in an annoying fashion.

Is this just a quirk of the device, or does mine have an issue? I have cleaned the hall effects sensors, which hasn't helped. I am wondering if the spring is worn out, but don't know how easy it would be to find a replacement.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:08 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 922
I haven't been following this much lately, but has anybody done a comparison of the different GameCube 480p devices/mods which output RGBS? (don't care/want HDMI). I think there's quite a few available now, right? Both plug and play types, and internal mods? --still see the GCVideo is out of stock (was it ever in stock or they're still working on it?).

Same question for the Wii - seems like the WiiDual is the only one which can export RGBS, correct? And it looks like they already did the first round and pre-orders are open for the second round? Any other options? ---trying to get all my systems to RGBS (and 480p) and these are the last two.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:09 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
I haven't been following this much lately, but has anybody done a comparison of the different GameCube 480p devices/mods which output RGBS? (don't care/want HDMI). I think there's quite a few available now, right? Both plug and play types, and internal mods? --still see the GCVideo is out of stock (was it ever in stock or they're still working on it?).

Same question for the Wii - seems like the WiiDual is the only one which can export RGBS, correct? And it looks like they already did the first round and pre-orders are open for the second round? Any other options? ---trying to get all my systems to RGBS (and 480p) and these are the last two.


does it have to be RGBS specifically? the official gamecube component cable can be easily modded to output RGBHV 480p, but I'm unclear if it has a composite sync mode

if that doesn't work for you, I think the only other options that have RGBS 480p are citrus3000psi's designs - the gcdual and the Eon MkII


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:18 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 922
maxtherabbit wrote:
does it have to be RGBS specifically? the official gamecube component cable can be easily modded to output RGBHV 480p, but I'm unclear if it has a composite sync mode


Yeah, has to be RGBS (hopefully Csync for my Crosspoint switcher) which Sony PVM and BVM monitors take. Specifically also not looking at the component cables because of their super high cost - would rather pay $50 for a mod like the GCVideo Analog than $150+ for the original cables (these aren't consoles I play all that much).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:23 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
does it have to be RGBS specifically? the official gamecube component cable can be easily modded to output RGBHV 480p, but I'm unclear if it has a composite sync mode


Yeah, has to be RGBS (hopefully Csync for my Crosspoint switcher) which Sony PVM and BVM monitors take. Specifically also not looking at the component cables because of their super high cost - would rather pay $50 for a mod like the GCVideo Analog than $150+ for the original cables (these aren't consoles I play all that much).

I think your only option is dan's internal mod then. Not sure how much that costs. The only COTS solution is the Eon MkII which is also $150


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:25 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Same question for the Wii - seems like the WiiDual is the only one which can export RGBS, correct? And it looks like they already did the first round and pre-orders are open for the second round? Any other options? ---trying to get all my systems to RGBS (and 480p) and these are the last two.


IIRC citrus said there's no analog-only (or digital-only) option for the Wii because each part adds a negligible cost. There might be a simpler mod or a region switch or something you could do for the Wii to get RGBHV though.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:25 am 


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A stock Wii won't output 480p in either RGBS or RGBHV.
The plug and play route is transcoding from component. You won't have to mess around with softmodding the system to PAL.

480p RGBHV was actually implemented, if never used, by the Gamecube component cable.
Doesn't look to me like there's RGBS. But my cable is not modded.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:05 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 922
theclaw wrote:
A stock Wii won't output 480p in either RGBS or RGBHV.
The plug and play route is transcoding from component. You won't have to mess around with softmodding the system to PAL.


I know a stock Wii won't output 480p in RGBS/RGBHV - but it seems there's mod(s) out there now which let you do this. Already have like 4 different types of quality YPbPr to RGBS converters - just want to loose the converter and use a mod instead (trying to simplify my A/V server rack, slowly).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:10 am 


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The AVE-RVL is capable of 480p RGBHV output, but the HV lines aren't connected.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:11 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1364
Wouldn't be ideal in any regard, but a GCVideo HDMI solution plus an active HDMI to VGA adapter plus an Extron RGB Interface should work.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:54 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1302
So I know the Wii U can output a digital 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's HDMI port and an analog YPbPr 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's AV Multi-Out port, but can it output an analog RGB 1080p/720p/480p signal through the same AV Multi-Out port too?

I want to get pure analog RGB out of the Wii U and play at 720p and 1080p. Is this possible?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:18 pm 


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Location: Germany
no, but a HDMI to RGBHV converter dongle ($15) will do the trick.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:55 pm 


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The Wii U is too poorly documented to answer that.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 192
I'm trying to hook my Atari Lynx with VGA out into my existing setup. Is it better to go VGA -> SCART or VGA -> Component?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:02 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1364
SavagePencil wrote:
I'm trying to hook my Atari Lynx with VGA out into my existing setup. Is it better to go VGA -> SCART or VGA -> Component?

Depends on what you want to do, really; whether your setup relies more on RGB or YPbPr, or you want to use a display that supports one but not the other.

Going to SCART is easier, because all you'd need to do is combine HV to composite sync, leaving the original RGB intact. I expect you'll be able to get a cable made by Retro-Access or RGC that includes a sync combiner in the SCART head, otherwise you can use an RGB Interface, such as those made by Extron, and a BNC->SCART adapter or cable.

Going to YPbPr (assuming that's what you meant by component, as pretty much anything aside from RF and composite can be considered component), your choices are more limited. The only readily-available VGA->YPbPr converter that I'm aware of is this one made by Retrotek, which supports 1080i (1080p supposedly should work, but it hasn't been extensively tested, so it's not advertised).

You could go VGA->SCART->YPbPr component, as SCART->YPbPr component equipment is more readily available, but it increases both cost and complexity.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:39 pm 


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The new Garo component to RGB design starts shipping within a week.

Nothing too complex. :) Plug the cords in.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:24 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 516
GeneraLight wrote:
So I know the Wii U can output a digital 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's HDMI port and an analog YPbPr 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's AV Multi-Out port, but can it output an analog RGB 1080p/720p/480p signal through the same AV Multi-Out port too?

I want to get pure analog RGB out of the Wii U and play at 720p and 1080p. Is this possible?


As suggested you can use an HDMI to VGA dongle, though as far as I know the Wii U digital output only does limited RGB so the analog component probably looks just as good. The HDFury 3 (and 4?) supposedly can do color upscaling to full RGB. That's what I use but I have not bothered to make comparisons and check if it really makes a difference or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:41 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1302
Thanks everyone. I think I'll just stick to YPbPr instead of converting to RGB for my analog output, since that seems to be what the Wii U generates internally anyway, like the GameCube and Wii.

1) Is the Wii U's YPbPr output higher quality than it's HDMI output, since the HDMI signal suffers from Limited Range RGB (16-235) while the YPbPr output does not?
2) Since the Wii U's digital HDMI output is Limited Range RGB (16-235), would converting it to 4:2:2 HD-SDI reduce the picture quality at all?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 516
GeneraLight wrote:
Thanks everyone. I think I'll just stick to YPbPr instead of converting to RGB for my analog output, since that seems to be what the Wii U generates internally anyway, like the GameCube and Wii.

1) Is the Wii U's YPbPr output higher quality than it's HDMI output, since the HDMI signal suffers from Limited Range RGB (16-235) while the YPbPr output does not?
2) Since the Wii U's digital HDMI output is Limited Range RGB (16-235), would converting it to 4:2:2 HD-SDI reduce the picture quality at all?


1) YPbPr won't be better than HDMI, it's also a limited color range compared to full RGB, but it shouldn't be worse if you're going to go analog in the end anyway.
2) Maybe not in terms of picture quality, but I recall hearing that converting to HD-SDI has other disadvantages, including adding a bit of lag. This is why I ended up converting HDMI to RGB through an Extron rxi unit rather than using an HD-SDI input card (plus I can't stand the fan noise on it).

BTW the GC/Wii does generate YPbPr internally but I do think there's advantage to using their analog RGB output when possible (either through a PAL console or one of the Dual kits or plug-and-play solutions now available) if using an RGB monitor. At least on my BVM it's easier to get colors and white balance to look "right" on RGB input rather than component. But it's a minor difference probably.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:53 am 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 342
So, bought a new PSU for my SNES. Still a black screen. CPU is probably dead then huh? (You know over the years it has had some trouble reading games here and there. Where you'd have to insert it multiple times to get it to work. I always assumed dirty cart connectors and dirty Zif. But maybe that was the CPU slowly failing??)

Man, even getting just a replacement console (No cords,controllers) is still really expensive on Ebay these days. Darn.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:08 pm 



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 62
Location: Belgium
Can anyone advice on on a simple device which can realize the following Picture in Picture situation?

Image

2x HDMI - in 1x out
Lag does not matter (not for fast gaming)

A lot of Chinese devices do Picture-in-Picture but hardly any devices which show what kind of configuration they actually support.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:40 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 922
Stainomo wrote:
Can anyone advice on on a simple device which can realize the following Picture in Picture situation?


Closest off the top of my head (just because I own one), and probably way more advanced than you might be looking for, is the TVOne C2-6104A. I've only really messed with it's 4-up picture defaults (i.e. 4x inputs displayed on a single 1080p screen in a number of different grid configurations), but the PC programming/setup software is pretty advanced and lets you (I think, not positive - it's been a while since I've messed with mine...could never really figure it out 100% yet TBH) do whichever grids you want, at whatever resolutions you want, in whatever grid(s) configuration you want (including upscaling and downscaling). They can be really expensive though, but you can always setup an alert on eBay which is how I got mine for a good price.

I think the MUCH more affordable (last one seems to have sold for ~$110) TVOne C2-750 is advertised as "Single and Dual PIP" (probably some other similar models too). I believe I have/had a couple of these but have never messed with it's PIP feature. BOTH of these use DVI inputs (Digital=HDMI or Analog), which you can use a cheap HDMI to DVI adapters with to get HDMI in and out (might have to look into audio embedding if you want to go that route too).

C2-1250 has PIP listed as well, but that ones inputs/outputs seem to be more focused on analog signals.

Hope you can find something more simple though...


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:58 pm 


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The 1T-C2-750 will do it too, tho it's not as flashy :) I see quite a few hdmi switches with declared PiP support but I would not trust most of them..


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:12 pm 


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Stainomo wrote:
Can anyone advice on on a simple device which can realize the following Picture in Picture situation?

Image

2x HDMI - in 1x out
Lag does not matter (not for fast gaming)

A lot of Chinese devices do Picture-in-Picture but hardly any devices which show what kind of configuration they actually support.


What's your use case?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:15 pm 



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 62
Location: Belgium
orange808 wrote:

What's your use case?


Picture 1 Streaming or TV
Picture 2 Zwift => virtual cycling

Maybe a game but not a retro game :)

Thanks for all the recommendations, i hoped to realize this for a low amount of money and using HDMI, that would fit my setup fine. Will try to find some reviews of some of those cheaper devices on ebay/aliexpress.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:50 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 64
Location: UK
I have a question about switch modified 32x’s if anyone can understand what I’m rambling about :oops:

Would a 50/60hz modified PAL 32x (set to 60hz) used in conjunction with a NTSC genesis suffer from an off spec refresh rate like a modified PAL Megadrive? Does the genesis or the 32x dictate the video refresh?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:37 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 227
I bought a Behar Bros Toro a while ago as the best solution to get my Dreamcast to SCART. I've since replaced it with an HDMI adapter so no longer need the Toro. Is there a way to convert it to something more useful, like a Garo? Does the Taro only have the 3 or 4 pin input that takes the Dreamcast connector?


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