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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:57 pm 



Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 32
I have a stock AV Famicom, and I plan to have it RGB modded in the future. For the time being, composite is the best I can get out of it which I will feed into my framemeister. My question is, would the standard Nintendo OEM AV cables be the best for a composite signal? Or are there better quality composite video cables out there for a NES/SNES/N64/GCN?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:16 am 


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Location: France
Got a question about displaying Dreamcast 480p through Toro into a BVM-D14H1E (via BKM129X):

How do you handle the wrong 720x480 output to restore the correct aspect ratio? Even pushing the HSIZE to +31 isn't enough it seems. Do I need something of the likes of the Extron DVS204?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:34 am 


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Quick Extron switch question -

I've got a Crosspoint 300 1616. On the back, it has a series of switches for 75ohm and 510ohm sync.
According to the manual, it should be set to 75ohm for 75ohm outputs, and 510ohm for every other output. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm getting confused and doubting this.

Everything I read by both Voultar and RetroRGB seems to imply that you want 75ohm sync coming out the back of your console, or at the very least your cable. However, the Extron manual seems to imply that they want a TTL level sync coming from the input.

Can I get a bit of clarification on what I should be setting the switches to for a SNES, N64, and Mega Drive?
And would it also be possible to get clarification on the output level of sync signals from the Crosspoint?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:00 am 



Joined: 08 Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Jademalo wrote:
Quick Extron switch question -

I've got a Crosspoint 300 1616. On the back, it has a series of switches for 75ohm and 510ohm sync.
According to the manual, it should be set to 75ohm for 75ohm outputs, and 510ohm for every other output. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm getting confused and doubting this.


The switches are for changing high level non-TTL sync signals down to a range the Crosspoint likes.
Consoles are not going to be outputting that so go ahead and have them in the default 510ohm position.

Jademalo wrote:
Everything I read by both Voultar and RetroRGB seems to imply that you want 75ohm sync coming out the back of your console, or at the very least your cable. However, the Extron manual seems to imply that they want a TTL level sync coming from the input.


It's because the Crosspoint devices weren't really designed for video game consoles, however when cabled correctly they happen to work really good for them.

Jademalo wrote:
And would it also be possible to get clarification on the output level of sync signals from the Crosspoint?

Thanks!


The output level is going to be higher then you would want for most situations. The popular cable manufacturers have cables with the proper components in them specifically for the Crosspoints to get the sync level down to an acceptable level.

That said, if your going into a PVM, it might be able to handle the unmodified signal fine (check the manual for it). Also if you plan to use it as a Component video switcher you also don't need to worry about the sync level as it only applies to the sync outputs, not the RGB outputs.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:36 am 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
Revolver Ocelot wrote:


Thanks for the info. I was not aware that the Framemeister has this Problem with Sega Saturn. Would the packapunch cable help to minimise the problem is there nothing that can be done against it?


The problem is in the Saturn itself. It doesn't have internal video LPF for 352 and 704 modes (at least some Saturns don't anyway), and so these jail bars can even be seen on CRTs or hooking the console up to a display without a Framemeister. Since the OSSC's 9MHz Video LPF setting completely removes the jail bars, it sort of proves the point of it being the Saturn's lack of LPF for those modes.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:45 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
Jademalo wrote:
Quick Extron switch question -

I've got a Crosspoint 300 1616. On the back, it has a series of switches for 75ohm and 510ohm sync.
According to the manual, it should be set to 75ohm for 75ohm outputs, and 510ohm for every other output. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm getting confused and doubting this.

Everything I read by both Voultar and RetroRGB seems to imply that you want 75ohm sync coming out the back of your console, or at the very least your cable. However, the Extron manual seems to imply that they want a TTL level sync coming from the input.

Can I get a bit of clarification on what I should be setting the switches to for a SNES, N64, and Mega Drive?
And would it also be possible to get clarification on the output level of sync signals from the Crosspoint?

Thanks!


In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC, Framemeister, Shinybow SB-2840, or a RGB TV if you live in Europe (guessing here as I live in the states), you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line. That's it. You need this because the sync coming off the extron is 5vp-p, and those consumer-oriented devices are only safe to use with around 1vp-p and under. Your PVM, BVM, any other pro-type converter/transcoder/up/downscaler boxes (i.e. Extron, Kramer, etc.) are all fine with the higher level sync for the most point. Even YPbPr/Component coming off the Crosspoint is fine since only the H Sync and V Sync lines are raised up to that ;dangerous' 5vp-p level.

Here's a good article about this: https://www.snailtoothgaming.com/articl ... nc-output/


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:38 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Dochartaigh wrote:
In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC... you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line.

Minor correction/clarification: AV3 on the OSSC (VGA/DE-15 port) requires TTL sync; it's only AV1 (SCART) that you would need to bring sync down to 1Vp-p with that resistor.

Now, you could very well connect the output of the CrossPoint directly to AV3 on the OSSC, but AV3 is intended for high-quality sources, like PCs, and has insufficient filtering for retro consoles.

The OSSC wiki specifically recommends AV1 and AV2 for retro consoles, as they have stronger low-pass filtering, so, if your CrossPoint is going to be primarily for retro consoles, it would be preferable to connect it to AV1 on the OSSC, with the composite sync signal attenuated with the 470Ω resistor.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:05 pm 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 220
Does anyone recognize this?

I've had 2 model 1 genesis' apart in the past week and found this thing inside one of them under the bottom RF shield

Never seen it before, pretty sure it's not meant to be in there. Even watched 3 youtube vids of console tear-downs and saw nothing of the sort

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:09 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 624
nmalinoski wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC... you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line.

Minor correction/clarification: AV3 on the OSSC (VGA/DE-15 port) requires TTL sync; it's only AV1 (SCART) that you would need to bring sync down to 1Vp-p with that resistor.

Now, you could very well connect the output of the CrossPoint directly to AV3 on the OSSC, but AV3 is intended for high-quality sources, like PCs, and has insufficient filtering for retro consoles.

The OSSC wiki specifically recommends AV1 and AV2 for retro consoles, as they have stronger low-pass filtering, so, if your CrossPoint is going to be primarily for retro consoles, it would be preferable to connect it to AV1 on the OSSC, with the composite sync signal attenuated with the 470Ω resistor.


Yup, and all mine look dirty without the low pass filter which is why I use the SCART AV1 which needs a resistor ;) (it would be a lot easier and cheaper to use a simple BNC to VGA cable though! Wish that port had a LPF!).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:54 pm 



Joined: 28 Mar 2018
Posts: 30
Location: Germany
I am thinkning of getting a Gamecube and wonder if it s worth considering one of the HDMI mods or is a neat RGB Scart cable in connection with the Framemeister good enough? I will get most likely a pal gamecube so most of the games do not offer 480p. And one the big advantages for the component or HDMi outputs should be the 480p ouput. But how well 576i or 480 i would look with HDMI. Is HDMI still worth considering or shall I just get a scart rgb cable for the Framemeister?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:15 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 900
Location: Australia
maxtherabbit wrote:
Does anyone recognize this?

I've had 2 model 1 genesis' apart in the past week and found this thing inside one of them under the bottom RF shield

Never seen it before, pretty sure it's not meant to be in there. Even watched 3 youtube vids of console tear-downs and saw nothing of the sort




Its the tab for the security screw on the back of the MD.
Look for the hole around the centre of the case and slot it in there, nothing else holds it in.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:09 am 


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Posts: 209
Dochartaigh wrote:
In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC, Framemeister, Shinybow SB-2840, or a RGB TV if you live in Europe (guessing here as I live in the states), you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line. That's it. You need this because the sync coming off the extron is 5vp-p, and those consumer-oriented devices are only safe to use with around 1vp-p and under. Your PVM, BVM, any other pro-type converter/transcoder/up/downscaler boxes (i.e. Extron, Kramer, etc.) are all fine with the higher level sync for the most point. Even YPbPr/Component coming off the Crosspoint is fine since only the H Sync and V Sync lines are raised up to that ;dangerous' 5vp-p level.

Here's a good article about this: https://www.snailtoothgaming.com/articl ... nc-output/


Thank you, that was an extremely interesting read. It definitely looks like I'm going to have to add some resistors to my BNC to SCART outputs from the Crosspoint. I had no idea that it boosted the sync to such high levels.

So my current setup is this. All consoles are feeding either RGBs or YPbPr into the Crosspoint. I then have three outputs;
    A Sony BVM-20F1E
    An XRGB Mini
    An OSSC

According to the manual, the BVM can handle sync signals between "0.3 to 8 Vp-p". This is connected to the Crosspoint with a straight through BNC to BNC cable for all signal types - RGBs, YPbPr, Y/C, and Composite. I'm assuming this means it's absolutely fine with the output from the Crosspoint as it is now straight into the BVM.
The XRGB Mini and the OSSC are both connected using Retrogamingcables.co.uk's BNC to Male SCART cable. They're older ones without the directional switch, but they're wired for output. As far as I'm aware, these don't have the 470ohm resistor in them, so they'll need that to attenuate the sync line.

My biggest concern is I've been using this setup for years. I remember noticing snow when using the SNES through the Mini, and I'm wondering if this is related.
How much damage could this realistically have done to my Mini and OSSC? They seem to be fine, but I'm still pretty concerned.

Anyway, I've ordered myself a few 470ohm resistors and an actually usable soldering iron, hopefully that will let me sort it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:58 pm 


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Joined: 05 Jun 2016
Posts: 130
Hey All,

I recently picked up a Sony PVM-14L4.

Does anyone know if this monitor needs 75ohm termination plugs on the RGBs outputs, or is it self terminating? I checked the manual but I'm not 100% sure.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:19 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 34
All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:22 am 


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Posts: 209
Damn, one of my Extron PSUs has died. Absolutely no idea why. Devices are fine since the other one works, but I'm not getting anything with one of them.

What's the go to extron replacement PSU in the UK/EU nowadays?
I know there's this one, but £40 is pretty steep.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:40 am 


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Location: Germany
TME has the Mean Well at 27 EUR incl. tax. (EDIT: sorry, out of stock till late summer).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:53 am 


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Alright, ty! I'll keep my eye on it
No real rush, it's just for my Andora.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:52 pm 


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Posts: 130
Namingway_PL wrote:
All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.


Ah I see, thanks for clarifying!

On a related note....is there any way to connect a PVM output to a CRT SCART input? (I'm in Europe). If using a BNC > SCART cable, The RGBs output of the PVM wouldn't have the correct voltage on SCART pin 16 to make the CRT switch to RGB.

I saw Coury from MLiG has a Toshiba CRT daisy chained to his PVM, but maybe that's more straight forward as it's a TV with component inputs, rather than SCART?

EDIT: Rob from RetroGamingCables suggested wiring a DC power source into the SCART head at the TV end, to provide the power to pin 16 on the TV, therefore switching it to RGB mode. Any easier way?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:54 pm 


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Quote:
If using a BNC > SCART cable, The RGBs output of the PVM wouldn't have the correct voltage on SCART pin 16 to make the CRT switch to RGB.

If your TV can't be manually set to RGB (many Sony TVs can), then you can add a battery or a USB power supply to your connection cable.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:00 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
If using a BNC > SCART cable, The RGBs output of the PVM wouldn't have the correct voltage on SCART pin 16 to make the CRT switch to RGB.

If your TV can't be manually set to RGB (many Sony TVs can), then you can add a battery or a USB power supply to your connection cable.


Ah you beat me to it before I got a chance to edit my post....thanks Fudoh! It looks like I can indeed manually change my Sony TV to the RGB SCART input. So in that case this cable should do the trick to link my PVM output to my Sony CRT?

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/aud ... rter-cable


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:52 am 


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Namingway_PL wrote:
All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.


Sony has the "PVM" moniker trademarked so this is technically true, but I had an Ikegami that needed the terminations.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:36 pm 


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I recently picked up a JVC BM-H2000PN 20" monitor but it's still in storage and I haven't tested it much yet. Do I need 75 ohm terminating plugs on this monitor?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:37 pm 


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Good news and bad news.

The good news is that my soldering job seems to have worked, and the cables work great. The bad news is that this didn't fix the issue I've been having, and i'm now concerned it's a bit more sinister.

My SNES Jr with the internal amp mod has a TON of noise when put through the crosspoint. I can only describe it as a sort of static snow over the whole image, especially noticeable in dark colours. When plugged in directly, for some reason the image has a weird doubling effect on the OSSC. When plugged through the crosspoint it's correct and the pixels are sharp, but with even more noise.
I assumed this was some sort of weird sync issue, but i'm not totally sure now after adding the resistor. The output of the SNES directly is 75ohm, and now the output of the crosspoint should be 75ohm.

The weird thing is other consoles seem to be fine. I haven't been able to test the N64 properly yet, but it seems to have substantially less noise at a quick glance. My cables are all absolutely fine, and I've tried swapping the N64 and SNES cable to no effect.

Any ideas what this could be?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:22 am 


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arithmaldor wrote:
Namingway_PL wrote:
All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.


Sony has the "PVM" moniker trademarked so this is technically true, but I had an Ikegami that needed the terminations.


This isn't neogaf. When we say PVM here we mean Sony's monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:30 pm 


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IPD wrote:
I recently picked up a JVC BM-H2000PN 20" monitor but it's still in storage and I haven't tested it much yet. Do I need 75 ohm terminating plugs on this monitor?


I think this monitor has manual switches on the back to enable termination


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:49 pm 


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Einzelherz wrote:
arithmaldor wrote:
Namingway_PL wrote:
All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.


Sony has the "PVM" moniker trademarked so this is technically true, but I had an Ikegami that needed the terminations.


This isn't neogaf. When we say PVM here we mean Sony's monitors.

Lol true, I guess I should expect a higher level of precision in language here
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:53 pm 



Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 32
Does anyone know a good place to purchase a Retro Freak that ships to the United States? I know it's emulation, but I'm mostly interested in backing up all my games. Also, is there a stock issue/situation with these things? The price seems to have skyrocketed on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:55 am 


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GojiFan90 wrote:
Does anyone know a good place to purchase a Retro Freak that ships to the United States? I know it's emulation, but I'm mostly interested in backing up all my games. Also, is there a stock issue/situation with these things? The price seems to have skyrocketed on them.


I believe it was removed from Amazon because they're illegally selling non-commercially-licensed emulators.
https://www.libretro.com/index.php/update-on-the-retro-freak-situation/


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:33 pm 



Joined: 11 Aug 2016
Posts: 14
This is a long shot, but if I can find a solution, it will probably be on here. :D

I'm trying to hook my PS3 via component to my Philips 24PT6341/37 CRT, and I for the life of me can't find the component video input (CVI) channel. I consulted the manual for the TV online. The manual says CVI should be in the list of AV channels, but mine only displays AV1, AV2, and FRONT. I ran the Auto Program feature and still no luck.

Has anyone encountered this TV and this problem? Would there be a way to factory reset everything to see if the CVI would show up as an option?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:02 pm 


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Posts: 256
The manual on Philips' site seems to suggest that CVI replaces AV1 when a component source is connected.


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