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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:18 am 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
orange808 wrote:
I use a Kramer FC-49 unit. It does a good job without damaging the signal.


I was just researching that after I couldn't find one made by Extron. Thanks for letting me know if does a good job - some on ebay for around $50-60.

Oh, wanted to ask, will there be any problem on the new 4K TV's with using something like this? Going to get one of those new TCL's and I'm not up to date on the different flavors of HDMI they're using now (1.0, 2.0, ARC, etc.).


You'll have to test it out to be absolutely certain, but it "should" work.

With HDMI, I never feel 100% confident anymore.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:06 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
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Hi everyone!

I have a Extron Crosspoint 300 8x4 switcher with ADSP, and recently ordered a Crosspoint Series Switcher that don't have the ADSP feature.

While waiting for the delivery, I wonder which one is a better unit? Having the ADSP feature will make a significant differance? Which unit would You prefer to use?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:44 pm 



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Namingway_PL wrote:
While waiting for the delivery, I wonder which one is a better unit? Having the ADSP feature will make a significant differance? Which unit would You prefer to use?


Having ADSP usually (but not always) means it's a newer switcher and I like using newer electronics especially when many of these are 20+ years old at this point (just less chance of problems)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:15 pm 


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Namingway_PL wrote:
Hi everyone!

I have a Extron Crosspoint 300 8x4 switcher with ADSP, and recently ordered a Crosspoint Series Switcher that don't have the ADSP feature.

While waiting for the delivery, I wonder which one is a better unit? Having the ADSP feature will make a significant differance? Which unit would You prefer to use?


ADSP sync voltage is too high for some of our gear. You'll need to manage that.

Read here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60283
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:42 pm 



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orange808 wrote:
ADSP sync voltage is too high for some of our gear. You'll need to manage that.

Read here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60283


Even more here: https://www.snailtoothgaming.com/articl ... nc-output/

But in a nutshell a 470Ω resistor on the sync line should do it if it runs to devices like the OSSC, FM, or Shinybow SB-2840 (this is a common device people use to convert RGB to YPbPr for their consumer CRT TV's).



**EDIT** to the below: seems like VGA is safe, and Component isn't an amplified signal since it doesn't use the sync lines. Can anybody confirm that's correct?
Does anybody know if this needs to be done on YPbPr/Component coming off the Crosspoint? I've read that standards for YPbPr are different than RGBS and I have that Shinybow SB-2840 I mentioned above looped back into my Crosspoint switcher, so the YPbPr coming off the Crosspoint to my consumer CRT TV is going to be that higher TTL ~5vp-p as well I would think. OR, is it only the Sync line on the Crosspoint which jacks up the signal to that ~5vp-p level so on YPbPr which doesn't use the sync line it's fine?

Also curious about VGA devices taking RGBHV from the Crosspoint. Always thought those were fine with the higher 5vp-p as well but better safe than sorry so I wanted to ask... (I have a bunch of Corio 2's hooked up, an Audio Authority 9A65 --YPbPr to RGBS-- converter, etc. -- I'm assuming my Extron RGB's are fine since they're Extron).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:25 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 331
Dochartaigh wrote:
**EDIT** to the below: seems like VGA is safe, and Component isn't an amplified signal since it doesn't use the sync lines. Can anybody confirm that's correct?
Does anybody know if this needs to be done on YPbPr/Component coming off the Crosspoint? I've read that standards for YPbPr are different than RGBS and I have that Shinybow SB-2840 I mentioned above looped back into my Crosspoint switcher, so the YPbPr coming off the Crosspoint to my consumer CRT TV is going to be that higher TTL ~5vp-p as well I would think. OR, is it only the Sync line on the Crosspoint which jacks up the signal to that ~5vp-p level so on YPbPr which doesn't use the sync line it's fine?

Also curious about VGA devices taking RGBHV from the Crosspoint. Always thought those were fine with the higher 5vp-p as well but better safe than sorry so I wanted to ask... (I have a bunch of Corio 2's hooked up, an Audio Authority 9A65 --YPbPr to RGBS-- converter, etc. -- I'm assuming my Extron RGB's are fine since they're Extron).

Through ownership of a CrossPoint Ultra 88, I can confirm that, basically, you only need to worry about 5Vp-p TTL sync damaging your equipment if you're trying to get RGBS out your CrossPoint.

As I understand it, the R, G, and B lines are all 75Ohm, 1Vp-p; so, when you're switching composite, S-Video, or component (be it YPbPr or RGsB), you're not using any of the sync lines to begin with; and, when you're using RGBHV (VGA), TTL sync is expected by your downstream devices.

When you're getting RGBS out of your CrossPoint, however, that composite sync signal is 510Ohm, 5Vp-p, just like with RGBHV; and consumer RGBS applications, like SCART, are generally designed for 75Ohm, 1Vp-p sync signals; so, you would need to attenuate the sync signal of any RGBS output from the CrossPoint in order to make it safe for consumer equipment. (The exception probably being if you're running RGBS output directly into another Extron device, like another CrossPoint) that can handle the 510Ohm, 5Vp-p composite sync signal.)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:48 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 27
Thanks for all the replies!

I don't have a Framemeister or the OSSC, and I use my Crosspoint with CRT RGB monitors, so I have nothing to worry about :) If I ever buy a Framemeister, I will make sure to have proper cables.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:45 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 474
orange808 wrote:
You'll have to test it out to be absolutely certain, but it "should" work.

nmalinoski wrote:
you only need to worry about 5Vp-p TTL sync damaging your equipment if you're trying to get RGBS out your CrossPoint.


Thank you, and thank you gents.




Another question: I've never used DVI for much of anything before. How do the DVI breakout cables (to BNC connectors) work? I need to go from DVI to BNC. Can I use the same 5x BNC breakout cable for RGBHV, RGBS, and YPbPr? Or is it device dependent?

Are the different brands pretty much universal? As in the same pins for Red are used on them all, same for Green, etc. Right now only the Polycom DVI to 5x BNC ones are available on eBay (there's others, but I need to order five of them at once). Just making sure the brand of break-out doesn't matter (would love all Extron's, or Kramer, or TVOne brands but those just aren't available).

I can also buy StarTech VGA to DVI adapter dongles from Amazon for $6/each then use my existing VGA to BNC breakouts but figure that might be a bit much as each cable will then be three parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:28 pm 


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Quote:
Can I use the same 5x BNC breakout cable for RGBHV, RGBS, and YPbPr?

yes, you can, although technically RGBs is likely no specified anywhere in the DVI-I specs.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:32 am 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Right now only the Polycom DVI to 5x BNC ones are available on eBay (there's others, but I need to order five of them at once). Just making sure the brand of break-out doesn't matter (would love all Extron's, or Kramer, or TVOne brands but those just aren't available).


https://www.ebay.com/itm/KRAMER-VGA-BNC ... SwZqZaJ~9s

But first tell the seller that it's a proper DVI to BNC cable that you're after. I've bought from him and he doesn't seem to know much about the cables he sells.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:33 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Can I use the same 5x BNC breakout cable for RGBHV, RGBS, and YPbPr?

yes, you can, although technically RGBs is likely no specified anywhere in the DVI-I specs.


Thanks.



Xer Xian wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
Right now only the Polycom DVI to 5x BNC ones are available on eBay (there's others, but I need to order five of them at once). Just making sure the brand of break-out doesn't matter (would love all Extron's, or Kramer, or TVOne brands but those just aren't available).


https://www.ebay.com/itm/KRAMER-VGA-BNC ... SwZqZaJ~9s

But first tell the seller that it's a proper DVI to BNC cable that you're after. I've bought from him and he doesn't seem to know much about the cables he sells.


I decided to go with regular DVI to VGA adapter dongles off Amazon. Everything after that is Extron so it should still carry a good signal. This also lets me keep my 3' length cables (everything else seemed to be 6'+ ~2meters) so I don't have to wrap up with zip ties 5x more cables to add to my beehive, and the Extron cables are always long enough to go from Red to V Sync left/right on my 32x32 Crosspoint (no other brand I've tried reaches and I have to use extension cables).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:07 pm 


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Any recommendations for a VGA splitter? Asking for a friend as he needs 2 outputs for his Dreamcast Kuro + to record.

Extron Crosspoint seems a little bulky for what he wants. Would one of Extrons VGA switchers be good? it would need to have audio as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 2:08 am 



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ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Extron Crosspoint seems a little bulky for what he wants. Would one of Extrons VGA switchers be good? it would need to have audio as well.

The matrix VGA switchers should work fine. The regular Extron VGA switchers normally only have one output; the ones with two outputs, the 8- and 12-port ones, are very hard to find.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:17 am 



Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 114
Looking to buy a SCART cable for the Wii.

With sync-on-composite being the only option, do I need to pay extra for RGC's PACKAPUNCH cable, or would I be safe with their regular option?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:21 am 


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ross wrote:
Looking to buy a SCART cable for the Wii.

With sync-on-composite being the only option, do I need to pay extra for RGC's PACKAPUNCH cable, or would I be safe with their regular option?

I'd go for the coax option. IMO all video cables should be coax but especially so when using CVBS as sync


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:41 am 



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it took some time but yesterday i was finally ready to order a better Rgb Scart cable for my NTSC Japan Saturn. As recommended here in the thread i wanted to get a Retro gaming uk RGB cable. But according their Websites cables are not in stock at the Moment.

So either have to wait or get an alternative. I found out the cables from the polish eBay seller to Foe are also very nice.

Would you guys consider the cables from the Foe as a equal alternative to the Retro gaming cables stuff or would it be better to wait till the Retro gaming cables uk Saturn cable is is back on sale again?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:37 am 


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Is it ok to replace the Electrolytic caps in scart leads with Tantlums?

I'm finding it hard to find space for electros is all.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:50 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Is it ok to replace the Electrolytic caps in scart leads with Tantlums?

I'm finding it hard to find space for electros is all.


I have tantalums in my GCDual component cable. Not sure if this would apply in all cases
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:01 pm 


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Revolver Ocelot wrote:
it took some time but yesterday i was finally ready to order a better Rgb Scart cable for my NTSC Japan Saturn. As recommended here in the thread i wanted to get a Retro gaming uk RGB cable. But according their Websites cables are not in stock at the Moment.

So either have to wait or get an alternative. I found out the cables from the polish eBay seller to Foe are also very nice.

Would you guys consider the cables from the Foe as a equal alternative to the Retro gaming cables stuff or would it be better to wait till the Retro gaming cables uk Saturn cable is is back on sale again?


For what it's worth, I've had both. I got one from TheFoo, but it broke due to me messing around to get c-sync from it (opening the connector without issues was difficult). Now I have one from RGC. I didn't do any A-B comparison, but both seem to work very well.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:43 pm 



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Thanks for the Infos Star. Then it is just as I thought. I have already assumed that both cables are of decent Quality and it is more a matter of personal taste which one I should buy.

Then it is a easy question. If I Need it now the cable from the foe is the best choice. If I can wait, the Retro gaming uk cable is a good choice as well.

They are both similar in Price, if I get the packerpunch cable, the Retro gaming cables uk Option is even more expensiv.

That brings to my next question. are the Standard cables from Retro gaming cables good enough or shall I get the packapunch Version?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:06 pm 


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Revolver Ocelot wrote:
Thanks for the Infos Star. Then it is just as I thought. I have already assumed that both cables are of decent Quality and it is more a matter of personal taste which one I should buy.

Then it is a easy question. If I Need it now the cable from the foe is the best choice. If I can wait, the Retro gaming uk cable is a good choice as well.

They are both similar in Price, if I get the packerpunch cable, the Retro gaming cables uk Option is even more expensiv.

That brings to my next question. are the Standard cables from Retro gaming cables good enough or shall I get the packapunch Version?


I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:15 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
Thanks for the Infos Star. Then it is just as I thought. I have already assumed that both cables are of decent Quality and it is more a matter of personal taste which one I should buy.

Then it is a easy question. If I Need it now the cable from the foe is the best choice. If I can wait, the Retro gaming uk cable is a good choice as well.

They are both similar in Price, if I get the packerpunch cable, the Retro gaming cables uk Option is even more expensiv.

That brings to my next question. are the Standard cables from Retro gaming cables good enough or shall I get the packapunch Version?


I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).


I see. Thanks for your opinion. I will use the cable on my Pansonic LCD TV with my Framemeister. On the FM the normal cables should be fine enought as well I suppose?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:32 pm 


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Revolver Ocelot wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).


I see. Thanks for your opinion. I will use the cable on my Pansonic LCD TV with my Framemeister. On the FM the normal cables should be fine enought as well I suppose?


The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:02 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).


I see. Thanks for your opinion. I will use the cable on my Pansonic LCD TV with my Framemeister. On the FM the normal cables should be fine enought as well I suppose?


The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.


Not an expert on the Framemeister either. I am just trying to find out the right settings for it. In general noise is no problem. My Gamecube with RGB and and my Dreamcast with RGB offers a very nice Image. Just my cheap Saturn rgb cable has some noise in the Picture thats why i am looking for a update.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:50 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:

The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.


The Framemeister as of the current firmware has 'shoddy' LPF that cannot be controlled. The major issue with this being Sega Saturn games that run in 352 H-res mode. Many Saturn consoles will show ugly jail bars on the Framemeister in this mode, wheres on the OSSC, you can set it to 9MHz video LPF (or simply Auto) and it completely removes the jail bars.

At any rate, I've got a question for Dreamcast experts:

The wiki for DC VGA mode claims it outputs in 720x480p, but the OS menu and my copy of Code Veronica both only show 640 active graphics. Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:10 am 


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Quote:
Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?

not really. I think there a few titles that use transition screens in full res. Just like the white DC bootscreen, which fills the full 720 px width.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:13 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?

not really. I think there a few titles that use transition screens in full res. Just like the white DC bootscreen, which fills the full 720 px width.


I scoured the Internet and pretty much the consensus is there's no game that goes beyond 640. I needed to know this for my optimal timing work on the OSSC. Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:36 pm 


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Does anyone know if there's an EDID minder/emulator for 4k capable gear that supports 60hz and HDR?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:52 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
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FBX wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:

The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.


The Framemeister as of the current firmware has 'shoddy' LPF that cannot be controlled. The major issue with this being Sega Saturn games that run in 352 H-res mode. Many Saturn consoles will show ugly jail bars on the Framemeister in this mode, wheres on the OSSC, you can set it to 9MHz video LPF (or simply Auto) and it completely removes the jail bars.

At any rate, I've got a question for Dreamcast experts:

The wiki for DC VGA mode claims it outputs in 720x480p, but the OS menu and my copy of Code Veronica both only show 640 active graphics. Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?

-FBX



Thanks for the info. I was not aware that the Framemeister has this Problem with Sega Saturn. Would the packapunch cable help to minimise the problem is there nothing that can be done against it?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:26 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Does anyone know if there's an EDID minder/emulator for 4k capable gear that supports 60hz and HDR?


HDFury Integral is probably the best answer. The Linker and Vertex have scaling and I don't know if they degrade the video signal during passthrough.
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