Questions that do not deserve a thread

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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

1) When you say Bluray is 4:2:0, is that just movies/TV shows on Bluray, or does that mean everything on Bluray, including video games?
video material in general, not games. Prerendered cut scenes on games might be 4:2:0 as well - it's really about the codec used.
2) Along with Bluray, what other video content is 4:2:2 or less?
DVD is 4:2:0 and so is all broadcast video material (cable, satellite and terestrial). Also all streaming media.
3) Does SDI or HD-SDI have input lag?
not per se, but maybe there's a ms added at some point - who knows?
4) How much input lag do you get from converting HDMI to RGB/YPbPr?
with a simple D/A converter there's no lag. "Higher" end converters that possible offer scaling or other features will add lag though.
Ikaruga11
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Thank you Fudoh.

What I think I'll do is have a dedicated DVD+Bluray player hooked up to HD-SDI through HDMI to output 1080p24 for Bluray movies and 480p/24/30/60 for DVDs. Unless you think analogue would be better for those as well. The PS3 I'll have hooked up to an HD analogue port with HDMI (since the PS3's component encoder is soft) and get 4:4:4 that way.

Is Limited Range RGB 4:2:2 and Full Range RGB 4:4:4?
Will HDCP (High Definition Copy Protection) get in the way of anything? How can I get around it or strip it away? I heard hacked PS3s can disable it.
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Xer Xian
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xer Xian »

GeneraLight wrote:What I think I'll do is have a dedicated DVD+Bluray player hooked up to HD-SDI through HDMI to output 1080p24 for Bluray movies
That won't work. Your BVM can only accept 1080/24psF which is a sort of hybrid between interlaced and progressive (frames are still interlaced but are displayed at even 2:2 cadence in which the first field has even lines, the next odd lines - every frame is segmented into two fields). You need something like a Crystalio II to process 1080p24 and get 1080/24psF.
GeneraLight wrote:Is Limited Range RGB 4:2:2 and Full Range RGB 4:4:4?
Will HDCP (High Definition Copy Protection) get in the way of anything? How can I get around it or strip it away? I heard hacked PS3s can disable it.
Limited and full range has nothing to do with chroma sampling, which is not really a thing in the RGB format as far as I know. You don't need to worry about HDCP, you just need to find a converter that can correctly expand from limited to full RGB. The HdFury 2 and 3 can allegedly do this but I'm afraid that this feature has not really been tested/reported by anyone.

Edit: Wait, if you use the component out with the WiiU you won't have to deal with limited range RGB. So forget about that last bit.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Xer Xian wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:What I think I'll do is have a dedicated DVD+Bluray player hooked up to HD-SDI through HDMI to output 1080p24 for Bluray movies
That won't work. Your BVM can only accept 1080/24psF which is a sort of hybrid between interlaced and progressive (frames are still interlaced but are displayed at even 2:2 cadence in which the first field has even lines, the next odd lines - every frame is segmented into two fields). You need something like a Crystalio II to process 1080p24 and get 1080/24psF.
GeneraLight wrote:Is Limited Range RGB 4:2:2 and Full Range RGB 4:4:4?
Will HDCP (High Definition Copy Protection) get in the way of anything? How can I get around it or strip it away? I heard hacked PS3s can disable it.
Limited and full range has nothing to do with chroma sampling, which is not really a thing in the RGB format as far as I know. You don't need to worry about HDCP, you just need to find a converter that can correctly expand from limited to full RGB. The HdFury 2 and 3 can allegedly do this but I'm afraid that this feature has not really been tested/reported by anyone.

Edit: Wait, if you use the component out with the WiiU you won't have to deal with limited range RGB. So forget about that last bit.
Thanks. I tried searching for the Crystalio II on Google, eBay, Amazon, etc. and found absolutely nothing. The official website has links to regional distributors, but they're all 404s.

Oh, okay! Thank you for the clarification. Anything cheaper than the HD Fury 2/3?

So does that mean component YPbPr cables will give me better colors since Limited Range RGB isn't present?
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Xer Xian
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xer Xian »

GeneraLight wrote: Thanks. I tried searching for the Crystalio II on Google, eBay, Amazon, etc. and found absolutely nothing. The official website has links to regional distributors, but they're all 404s.
Fudoh should have three of them, maybe ask him :mrgreen:
GeneraLight wrote:Oh, okay! Thank you for the clarification. Anything cheaper than the HD Fury 2/3?
See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59860
GeneraLight wrote:So does that mean component YPbPr cables will give me better colors since Limited Range RGB isn't present?
Kind of.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Xer Xian wrote:Fudoh should have three of them, maybe ask him :mrgreen:
Definitely :)
Xer Xian wrote:See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59860
Thanks. My BVM doesn't have a VGA input though.
Xer Xian wrote:Kind of.
Can you elaborate?

Discussions:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/wii-u ... 453579115/
https://www.avforums.com/threads/wii-u- ... e.1710873/
EuroGamer's Wii U hardware review wrote:Nintendo hasn't encrypted the digital output of the Wii U. There's no HDCP implementation, meaning that you can connect the Wii U to older DVI monitors with no support for the nigh-on useless digital encryption system.
EuroGamer's Wii U hardware review wrote:Nintendo appears to have taken a leaf out of Microsoft's book in terms of how various screen resolutions are dealt with. All of the games we've tested to date appear to operate at native 720p, but just like Xbox 360 the console outputs at any resolution you select, upscaling - or indeed downscaling - to your preferred video format. We'd have liked a 1366x768 option for native output for "HD ready" panels, but the available options are fine overall.

However, there is some unwelcome news - specifically that the HDMI output is locked to limited-range RGB only, with footage from all games we've captured thus far revealing absolutely no information in the 0-16 or 235-255 areas. Many digital displays - PC monitors in particular - don't operate correctly with limited-range RGB, giving washed out colours principally defined by blacks being more grey-like in nature. This is something Nintendo really needs to address as a matter of urgency - it's the most basic of omissions, something that Sony and Microsoft resolved to everyone's satisfaction many, many years ago.

Bizarrely, for a console launching when digital video standards are established and mature, many users may well find that they get a more vibrant picture by using the legacy component outputs.
Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-ha ... i-u-review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1dPcCSRi84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csVxrMKa7XM
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Xer Xian
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xer Xian »

Sorry I'm not going to delve on those links, there's no need to, it's really easy - just use component to play with a WiiU on CRTs, it will save you a headache. I replied like that because if you have an RGB range mismatch, it's improper to just say that colors will be worse (even if they will). You seem to be good at reasearching stuff, so have a look around the web for more info.

Also not sure how much of a movie buff you are, there's a chance that 1080i60 might be just fine for your needs (or just use a modern display that supports 1080p24). Crystalio II VPs are hard to find and tend to be expensive, so if you need to have explained why you'd need it, it's probably overkill.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

Oh Xer Xian. How naïve you are.
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Xer Xian
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xer Xian »

Eh, probably just dumb :roll:
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

Smart, but probably too kind :P
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Xer Xian wrote:Sorry I'm not going to delve on those links, there's no need to, it's really easy - just use component to play with a WiiU on CRTs, it will save you a headache. I replied like that because if you have an RGB range mismatch, it's improper to just say that colors will be worse (even if they will). You seem to be good at reasearching stuff, so have a look around the web for more info.

Also not sure how much of a movie buff you are, there's a chance that 1080i60 might be just fine for your needs (or just use a modern display that supports 1080p24). Crystalio II VPs are hard to find and tend to be expensive, so if you need to have explained why you'd need it, it's probably overkill.
Ok. I'll do that then. I'm not a huge movie buff. I have a decent selection of fims that I like to watch, and I want to squeeze the highest quality out of them with my D24. That's what Fudoh said too.
RottenToTheGore
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by RottenToTheGore »

Any tips on soldering to these style pins? Try as I might I keep bumping the plastic and making a mess.

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Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

RottenToTheGore wrote:Any tips on soldering to these style pins? Try as I might I keep bumping the plastic and making a mess.
Hitting the plastic is fine, as long as it's not below where the pin goes through to the other side - you don't want the pin to be able to move of course.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

A flat iron tip can help, too. Or a very pointy one.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Do you guys think HDMI will be here to stay or do you think it will eventually be phased out by a new connector? I ask because I want to make sure HDMI is future-proof before I get any consoles modded with HDMI, such as the Hi-Def NES and the Ultra HDMI for N64.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Syntax »

What about poor old Mr Display Port??
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Binx_Narra »

Hey everyone, I was wondering, where do people go to share their Shmups with the community, to bring up the exposure of their game? Most sites and forums block posts which advertise or try to point the community in the direction of their game.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by orange808 »

Binx_Narra wrote:Hey everyone, I was wondering, where do people go to share their Shmups with the community, to bring up the exposure of their game? Most sites and forums block posts which advertise or try to point the community in the direction of their game.
The Development section is the place. A lot of us don't post there, but many of us do read it. Seems to be a very friendly forum as well.
We apologise for the inconvenience
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Hellfromabove »

Looking at converting a digital signal to analog (HDMI to VGA). I have been told that HDFury is great for this as it is reported to be lag free. Looking at converting a signal to display it on my 15kHz monitor. Will the HDFury Nano GX work for this? If not, can someone recommend a model of the HDFury that would be able to give me what I'm looking for? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Speaking of digital to analog conversion, I am also looking for a DAC solution for HDMI -> BNC to a BVM. Do Extron switchers do this, or do I need a dedicated DAC device?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by citrus3000psi »

GeneraLight wrote:Speaking of digital to analog conversion, I am also looking for a DAC solution for HDMI -> BNC to a BVM. Do Extron switchers do this, or do I need a dedicated DAC device?
Does your BVM have SDI?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

citrus3000psi wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:Speaking of digital to analog conversion, I am also looking for a DAC solution for HDMI -> BNC to a BVM. Do Extron switchers do this, or do I need a dedicated DAC device?
Does your BVM have SDI?
It does. SDI (240p/480i) and HD-SDI (480p+)

But Fudoh and Xer Xian say that HD-SDI is worse than HD analog because HD-SDI is transmitted as 4:2:2 only, meaning I'll lose information with 4:4:4 sources. This restriction doesn't exist on the HD analog ports.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

It does. SDI (240p/480i) and HD-SDI (480p+)
hey, young padawan, 240p through SDI usually doesn't work and also 480p usually isn't supported through HD-SDI (just 720p and higher).
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Fudoh wrote:
It does. SDI (240p/480i) and HD-SDI (480p+)
hey, young padawan, 240p through SDI usually doesn't work and also 480p usually isn't supported through HD-SDI (just 720p and higher).
My bad. And wow, that makes SDI/HD-SDI even more unappealing.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xyga »

Has anyone ever used a DualShock 4 pcb to build a custom stick ?

thread/tutorial anywhere ?
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Xer Xian
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xer Xian »

Xyga wrote:Has anyone ever used a DualShock 4 pcb to build a custom stick ?

thread/tutorial anywhere ?
I don't even have a PS4, but here's what's out there..

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/ ... ad-instead
http://www.instructables.com/id/Arcade- ... -Pad-Hack/
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

It's generally accepted that NeoGeo AES systems with serial numbers ranging from 20,000 to 33,000 have the best RGB output, but according to this page https://nfggames.com/games/neorgb/, any
NeoGeo AES system with a serial number below 86,000 will have the best RGB output. Is this true?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ASDR »

GeneraLight wrote:It's generally accepted that NeoGeo AES systems with serial numbers ranging from 20,000 to 33,000 have the best RGB output, but according to this page https://nfggames.com/games/neorgb/, any
NeoGeo AES system with a serial number below 86,000 will have the best RGB output. Is this true?
It's a bit more complicated AFAIK. The 20-33k ones have generally excellent quality, but they might have brightness issues. Mine is massively too dark, there's clearly wrong resistors soldered to the board (matches neither the correct values nor the silkscreen). Apparently either the resistors in the voltage divider before the video encoder are wrong (1.5k vs 2.2k vs 3.0k) or the components behind it (68ohm + 100uF vs 75ohm + 220uF) are not what they're supposed to be. There seems to be a range of board revisions and factory mods. This is apparently a common problem, but can be easily fixed by just swapping a few resistors or if you have a video processor with analog gain control (OSSC etc.) fixing it there. Some of the later revisions (3-6, IIRC) have also excellent image quality, but are plagued by jailbars. Thankfully, the fix is a simple trace cut. From what I've read, all other revisions have frequently more severe image quality issues that need a full RGB bypass to be corrected.

So, all AES consoles are terrible junk ( :D ), but the very early (3-1 / 3-2?) and one rather common later model (3-6?) can be fairly trivially fixed to look very, very good indeed.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

ASDR wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:It's generally accepted that NeoGeo AES systems with serial numbers ranging from 20,000 to 33,000 have the best RGB output, but according to this page https://nfggames.com/games/neorgb/, any
NeoGeo AES system with a serial number below 86,000 will have the best RGB output. Is this true?
It's a bit more complicated AFAIK. The 20-33k ones have generally excellent quality, but they might have brightness issues. Mine is massively too dark, there's clearly wrong resistors soldered to the board (matches neither the correct values nor the silkscreen). Apparently either the resistors in the voltage divider before the video encoder are wrong (1.5k vs 2.2k vs 3.0k) or the components behind it (68ohm + 100uF vs 75ohm + 220uF) are not what they're supposed to be. There seems to be a range of board revisions and factory mods. This is apparently a common problem, but can be easily fixed by just swapping a few resistors or if you have a video processor with analog gain control (OSSC etc.) fixing it there. Some of the later revisions (3-6, IIRC) have also excellent image quality, but are plagued by jailbars. Thankfully, the fix is a simple trace cut. From what I've read, all other revisions have frequently more severe image quality issues that need a full RGB bypass to be corrected.

So, all AES consoles are terrible junk ( :D ), but the very early (3-1 / 3-2?) and one rather common later model (3-6?) can be fairly trivially fixed to look very, very good indeed.
Thanks. So are the 3-1, 3-2 and 3-6 motherboard revisions only in the 20,000 - 33,000 serial number range?
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