Questions that do not deserve a thread

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
Einzelherz
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

I'll have to defer to the folks at digitalfaq. Search through their forums for specifics or even ask questions. They're pretty quick on responding.
AaronSR
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:01 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by AaronSR »

I just ordered a PS1 sync on luma cable from RGC to replace my old 3rd party one which had a little bit of noise/interference.

I'm wondering though, does using a PS1 RGB scart on a PS2 damage the console/scart/TV? I know that the PS1 scart has 200uF capacitors whereas the PS2 has them in the console so for PS2 you need a RGB scart without those capacitors so I'll probably get the PS2 specific cable down the line. What exactly are the side effects to using a PS1 scart on a PS2 though, is there some comparison pictures?

Also for PS2 sync on luma is also the preferred sync type and PS2 can output 480p over scart right? I've read in some places you need sync on green but on RGC they only sell luma and CSYNC.
nmalinoski
Posts: 1974
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

AaronSR wrote:I'm wondering though, does using a PS1 RGB scart on a PS2 damage the console/scart/TV? I know that the PS1 scart has 200uF capacitors whereas the PS2 has them in the console so for PS2 you need a RGB scart without those capacitors so I'll probably get the PS2 specific cable down the line. What exactly are the side effects to using a PS1 scart on a PS2 though, is there some comparison pictures?
I've only used my PS1-specific SCART cable (220uF caps, from Retro-Access) on my PS2 for sporadic testing, but I've encountered no issues with that configuration. It's technically not electrically to spec, but it should have no negative side effects.
AaronSR wrote:Also for PS2 sync on luma is also the preferred sync type...
Sync-on-luma is definitely preferred over sync-on-composite for PS1/PS2, but whether you get luma or CSync depends on whether you absolutely need CSync for use with a device like an Extron CrossPoint, RGB Interface, or PVM/BVM that otherwise is incompatible with sync-on-composite or sync-on-luma.
AaronSR wrote:...and PS2 can output 480p over scart right? I've read in some places you need sync on green but on RGC they only sell luma and CSYNC.
The short answer is yes, the PS2 will technically output 480p RGB over SCART, but there are caveats.

With the colorspace set to RGB, the PS2 outputs 15kHz modes (240p/288p/480i/576i) in RGBS and 31kHz+ video modes (480p/576p/720p/1080i) in RGsB. Those RGsB signals will be transmitted just fine over the SCART cable, but the device you have that SCART cable hooked to needs to be able to 1) understand RGsB over SCART and 2) be able to handle 31kHz+ over its SCART input, both of which are, as I understand it, extremely rare.

If you're hooking your PS2 into a gscartsw 5.x or an OSSC, you'll be fine, because those were designed to consider and handle RGsB over SCART. If you're trying to get 480p RGsB from your PS2 directly into a modern TV, chances are it won't understand RGsB and, even if you were to reformat it to RGBS with a sync stripper, the display likely won't be able to take more than 15kHz on its SCART input. You might be able to use a PC monitor, but analogue inputs are being phased out, RGsB support has always been spotty at best, and the monitor will most likely not take any 15kHz RGBS signals you throw at it.

As for what you can do, there are a few solutions. First, the easiest method to get 480p output from the PS2 is going to be YPbPr component. No, it's not RGB, but it only requires a quality component cable, either first-party Sony or HD Retrovision, and it works when you have YPbPr-compatible equipment but not RGsB-compatible equipment.

If you want to stick with RGB SCART, as I mentioned, direct connection to the OSSC or running through a gscartsw 5.x will be your best bet. With the OSSC's automatic input switching, you'll be able to switch between 15kHz and 31kHz+ modes without manually changing the input on the OSSC. The gscartsw 5.x models are able to detect sync on the green line and either forward RGsB as-is or strip sync from green and output RGBS, and I believe it can seamlessly switch between the two.

And, lastly, if you're okay with hard mods, there is a method to disable RGsB output and have the console output RGBS full-time, regardless of video mode.
fernan1234
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

Extron RGB interfaces, scalers, VGA switch units will all take RGsB and pass it along like that or (for the interfaces and scalers) convert it to RGBS or RGBHV if you want. You'll just need a DE15 connection either with a DE15 cable from the PS2 or a SCART to DE15 cable if you already have a SCART cable. A PVM/BVM will work with RGsB or RGB fed into it from either of these. Though I believe you can also go straight from a SCART cable outputting RGsB to a regular BNC breakout cable, you'll just have to switch to internal sync on the monitor when the signal changes.
AaronSR
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:01 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by AaronSR »

Okay thanks for that super detailed response. Right now I have the Sony PS3 component cables so I wasn't in too much of a hurry for the PS2 scart cable. In future I do plan on getting an OSSC because right now I'm using one of those generic scart to HDMI boxes which as you might know are, not too terrible honestly, but not perfect. But I'm 99% sure it doesn't work with RGsB because testing God of War it just cuts out to a no signal.
Bassa-Bassa
Posts: 1153
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:18 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Sorry if this has been explained already, but is there a final word on how TTL spec cables affect Trinitron SCART TV sets? Is the additional wear something to worry about?

Asking because I'm not sure about thefoo.83's Saturn TTL 5V cables sold before the current revision being fine for a TV (picture quality is excellent, though).
EnragedWhale
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:26 am
Location: UK

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by EnragedWhale »

I keep seeing 720p as the recommended resolution for users of 4K screens as seemingly it’s an exact multiple of 2160p. That’s all well and good but do any TV’s actually do an integer scale from 720p?

If not then surely 1080p is better as there is more information for the tv to scale from for motion clarity etc?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

It's more important what's happening before. For example since you can't integer scale 240p to 1080p, you simply drag your scaling problems along with the secondary upscaling from 1080p to 4K.
strayan
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by strayan »

EnragedWhale wrote:I keep seeing 720p as the recommended resolution for users of 4K screens as seemingly it’s an exact multiple of 2160p. That’s all well and good but do any TV’s actually do an integer scale from 720p?
Not to my knowledge.

I believe there is a 39inch zisworks engineering sample that does 720p integer scaling though: http://www.zisworks.com/shop.html
fernan1234
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

EnragedWhale wrote: If not then surely 1080p is better as there is more information for the tv to scale from for motion clarity etc?
4K TVs and monitors seem to all present upscaled 1080p content better than upscaled 720p, in the sense of a crisper image. I don't think it affects motion one way or the other though.

The reason to recommend 720p is so that when "scanlines" are used they line up properly, for the reasons Fudoh mentioned.
User avatar
orange808
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by orange808 »

fernan1234 wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote: If not then surely 1080p is better as there is more information for the tv to scale from for motion clarity etc?
4K TVs and monitors seem to all present upscaled 1080p content better than upscaled 720p, in the sense of a crisper image. I don't think it affects motion one way or the other though.

The reason to recommend 720p is so that when "scanlines" are used they line up properly, for the reasons Fudoh mentioned.
There are no guarantees.

It depends on the individual display. I've seen uneven scanlines feeding 720p to a 4k television.
We apologise for the inconvenience
EnragedWhale
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:26 am
Location: UK

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by EnragedWhale »

Thanks guys
Fudoh wrote:It's more important what's happening before. For example since you can't integer scale 240p to 1080p, you simply drag your scaling problems along with the secondary upscaling from 1080p to 4K.
Hadn’t considered that, cheers Fudoh
User avatar
vol.2
Posts: 2422
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: bmore

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Sorry if this is silly... Is it normal that the top of the screen on PVM has an odd lighting cast on it? I don't notice anything in normal operation, but when all the lights are off in the room I can see a spot that's noticably brighter in kind of a cone shape towards the top. Is this possibly indicative of a particular calibration issue, or is it just normal?

These photos didn't come out very bright because of my camera, but they show where it is:

top of screen https://imgur.com/a/vjidZBh
Logan Jones
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:35 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Logan Jones »

What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.
User avatar
vol.2
Posts: 2422
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: bmore

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Logan Jones wrote:What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.
I think it's down to the scan line spacing and the pixel aspect ratio. (not square)
640x400 is an extension of IBMs EGA, so my gut tells me NEC was using that.
If that doesn't help and no one here can answer, then the vintage computer federation forum is p good for such matters.
fernan1234
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

Logan Jones wrote:What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.
Nice, another fellow PC-98 game fan. I've actually never used a NEC monitor for PC-98, but I've seen pictures of both 4:3 monitors and some wider looking ones (not sure about the aspect ratio though). On the 4:3 monitors the games did have an anamorphic presentation, whereas on the wider ones they filled out more of the screen but not completely. When I emulate this computer I send 480p video to my BVM and it looks great. I'm assuming this looks close to the 4:3 monitors, which must have used a progressive picture where only 400 out of the 480 lines were used.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

I'm assuming this looks close to the 4:3 monitors, which must have used a progressive picture where only 400 out of the 480 lines were used.
no, 400p is 31khz as well, so the 400 lines cover the whole screen. To keep the scan rate at 31khz the refresh rate is increased to 70Hz.
User avatar
vol.2
Posts: 2422
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: bmore

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

fernan1234 wrote:
Logan Jones wrote:What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.
Nice, another fellow PC-98 game fan. I've actually never used a NEC monitor for PC-98, but I've seen pictures of both 4:3 monitors and some wider looking ones (not sure about the aspect ratio though). On the 4:3 monitors the games did have an anamorphic presentation, whereas on the wider ones they filled out more of the screen but not completely. When I emulate this computer I send 480p video to my BVM and it looks great. I'm assuming this looks close to the 4:3 monitors, which must have used a progressive picture where only 400 out of the 480 lines were used.
I honestly don't think PC-98 is anamorphic as such. OP is referring to a special anamorphic mode that msdos (msdos the program) ran in. It would simply stretch itself to suit whatever resolution it was run in. It was done to avoid situations like an impossibly small input cursor in a high resolution text mode.
I still think the pc-98 makes up the screen real estate with scanline spacing, the same way EGA is 4:3 at 640x350 (normally) or 640x400 (special extension used by ATI)
If you think you're seeing a non 4:3 monitor in use it could be a monochrome monitor used for a text mode in some dedicated way.
User avatar
Harrumph
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:06 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Harrumph »

I got a bit curious about pc98 because of the earlier question. Certainly, it does have a 24kHz mode, then the refresh rate is below 60 Hz.
http://retro-type.com/PC98/NEC-MultiSyn ... WNX_04.jpg

This other guy has a lot of screenshots of games, he’s using a similar LCD, but the games look perfectly fine stretched to 4:3.
https://www.leadedsolder.com/2018/10/08 ... o-day.html
https://www.leadedsolder.com/2018/10/09 ... stall.html
fernan1234
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

To me squares do look square, and in general graphics look right, when the 640x400 image is displayed with top and bottom borders on a 4:3 screen. The scanline spacing may have been more on the original NEC monitors, covering more of the screen but still with some underscan, preserving geometry in the game graphics.

In catalogue pictures from the time I remember seeing games did seem to be displayed as if underscanned.
omgdmp
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by omgdmp »

I got a question concerning the 3 cave games DDPDOJ ESPGALUDA1 and Ketsui on PGM conversion.

This question is mainly concerning Ketsui.

Do they play exactly the same as the original PCB? Is the slowdown the same as the PCB?
Its different hardware right? I guess I just dont understand how they can be the same.
Namingway_PL
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

vol.2 wrote:Sorry if this is silly... Is it normal that the top of the screen on PVM has an odd lighting cast on it? I don't notice anything in normal operation, but when all the lights are off in the room I can see a spot that's noticably brighter in kind of a cone shape towards the top. Is this possibly indicative of a particular calibration issue, or is it just normal?

These photos didn't come out very bright because of my camera, but they show where it is:

top of screen https://imgur.com/a/vjidZBh
I have the same thing on my JVC DT-V1710CG (only with 240p) but I don't know what is causing it. My guess is that the tube or the metal case of the monitor is magnetised, but I'm not realy sure.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Quick purchase advice question: VCR to the LG C8 series OLEDs. These TVs have USB, HDMI, and a stereo composite input (via a weird mini headphone jack-like connector, but with three segments instead of two). I could go with a selector box or I could go with a cheap S-Video to HDMI box. Gaming efficiency isn't a concern; mainly price followed by picture quality (carrying sound over HDMI is a must).
User avatar
FinalBaton
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

Ed Oscuro wrote:Quick purchase advice question: VCR to the LG C8 series OLEDs. These TVs have USB, HDMI, and a stereo composite input (via a weird mini headphone jack-like connector, but with three segments instead of two). I could go with a selector box or I could go with a cheap S-Video to HDMI box. Gaming efficiency isn't a concern; mainly price followed by picture quality (carrying sound over HDMI is a must).
Do you have a upscaler/video processor? I'm expecting 480i to look like absolute trash on a 4K panel, especially a poor source like VHS (not hating, I watch some VHS every now and then too)
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Nope, I've managed to avoid those - aside from the X-RGB series of course. I'm setting this up for someone else, so I'm hoping to go with a cheap solution.

I realize now that I didn't do my homework - I should have tried connecting via composite and seeing how it looked.

LG TVs have done a good job of scaling 480i (ish) content in my experience. I have some VHS rips of an old TV program, saved as 240p (ish) video files, and the video seems just fine on a TV. No miracles, but fine. The older 42lm3700 this set is finally replacing was a good performer in this regard (I've written before about how a prerecorded tape of Jurassic Park looked pretty good and clean).

It would be interesting to see how S-Video to HDMI fares compared to just playing via composite, but price might preclude that option for now.
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by DejahThoris »

omgdmp wrote:I got a question concerning the 3 cave games DDPDOJ ESPGALUDA1 and Ketsui on PGM conversion.

This question is mainly concerning Ketsui.

Do they play exactly the same as the original PCB? Is the slowdown the same as the PCB?
Its different hardware right? I guess I just dont understand how they can be the same.
They're identical.

Same hardware, different form factor. No different than Demon Front or Spectral Vs Generation. They both officially came on PGM carts and PGM single game Jamma boards.
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Xyga »

Ed Oscuro wrote:LG TVs have done a good job of scaling 480i (ish) content in my experience.
In the past yeah I would agree, I was impressed with what their full-hd sets did for the ps2 or vhs.
But their current 4k are like 99% different machines for which no one even a thorough reviewer has given 480i a single thought about, afaik, this is unknown territory.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
SuperDeadite
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:31 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by SuperDeadite »

If a insert a 12mhz 68000 into a system16, and change nothing else, the pcb will run at its proper 10mhz speed right?
User avatar
vol.2
Posts: 2422
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:13 pm
Location: bmore

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Namingway_PL wrote:
vol.2 wrote:Sorry if this is silly... Is it normal that the top of the screen on PVM has an odd lighting cast on it? I don't notice anything in normal operation, but when all the lights are off in the room I can see a spot that's noticably brighter in kind of a cone shape towards the top. Is this possibly indicative of a particular calibration issue, or is it just normal?

These photos didn't come out very bright because of my camera, but they show where it is:

top of screen https://imgur.com/a/vjidZBh
I have the same thing on my JVC DT-V1710CG (only with 240p) but I don't know what is causing it. My guess is that the tube or the metal case of the monitor is magnetised, but I'm not realy sure.
I still don't know what causes it, but I remembered that it can be removed by expanding the image vertically toward that direction, either by making the image larger or shifting it up (with internal controls) .
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3345
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by BuckoA51 »

Is Super Turrican on the SNES supposed to be a widescreen game? Because my 4:3 CRT letterboxes the heck out of it...
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
Post Reply