Questions that do not deserve a thread

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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Guile wrote: I tried this and I managed to get a very green rgb output.
It's not going to transcode the signal to RGB for you. You would have to hook it up to the component input of a TV.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

Which hdmi to component converter can output 240p? Would this one work? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HT11MH

I'm trying to test if I can convert the gbs control 240p going into an ossc and out to 240p component.

I also tried downscaling on an iscan hd+ but I couldn't get it to work but I will test more. I had some trouble with the analog component output but I did have that working before.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Get the Portta one. Here's my rundown of all the converters I tested:
viewtopic.php?p=1441618#p1441618
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

Fudoh wrote:Get the Portta one. Here's my rundown of all the converters I tested:
viewtopic.php?p=1441618#p1441618
Thanks, that's a great list. Do you know if a vga to svideo cable would work to get 240p from the output?

On the Startech converter would the ypbpr output be lower level or TTL sync?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Thanks, that's a great list. Do you know if a vga to svideo cable would work to get 240p from the output?
no, if you need s-video you need to a get a HDMI to VGA unit (ideally the Portta again) along with a VGA2NTSC unit.
On the Startech converter would the ypbpr output be lower level or TTL sync?
regular luma level, same as in composite video.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

I want to calibrate a PVM-2950 using the SMPTE pattern.

I'm using RGB.
the SMPTE-calibration tutorials I've seen mention at some point to, in blue-only mode, play with the Color setting to get two sets of bars towards the center to match on the pattern (after brightness is taken care of(bars towards edge)). but there's no ''color'' setting on RGB. which settings should I use at this step then : the white balance ones? (CUT and GAIN)?



I do have a PVM-20L5 that I can put next to the 2950 and can use as reference
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

FinalBaton wrote:I want to calibrate a PVM-2950 using the SMPTE pattern.

I'm using RGB.
the SMPTE-calibration tutorials I've seen mention at some point to, in blue-only mode, play with the Color setting to get two sets of bars towards the center to match on the pattern (after brightness is taken care of(bars towards edge)). but there's no ''color'' setting on RGB. which settings should I use at this step then : the white balance ones? (CUT and GAIN)?



I do have a PVM-20L5 that I can put next to the 2950 and can use as reference
It sounds like that tutorial is to calibrate NTSC demodulation. RGB doesn't go through NTSC color demod, so it wouldn't be a relevant procedure. I don't know if the 2950 has a service mode, but that's what you would use for something like this. It's possible (probable) that it doesn't, and you are expected to use a color monitor pattern generator to put up specific slides at specific temperatures for calibration. You can probably fake it with an RGB source that has the appropriate slides (240p test suite or something).

The Cut is for low level, the gain is for high. You typically start with either a white HOR line in the center of the screen (service mode) or a white raster with the contrast all the way down and the brightness so low you can just barely see the white (patter generator). The service mode will disable the brightness and contrast and you must use the G2 control (screen) to turn the brightness down to just the point you can barely see the line.
You back off the RGB output transistors with the Cut pots. Then you bring up one of the three and get a barely visible line or raster (lets say red) then you raise the blue until you have a perfect magenta (as good as your eyes can do) and then you raise the green until it's perfectly white (but still barely visible).

Then you would turn off service mode (if you are using one) and crank the brightness and contrast as high as they will go without blooming. Then you adjust the Gain until you get pure white. Some sets only have 2 Gain controls and typically have the red as a constant voltage so you won't have much guesswork to do, just make the green and the blue levels create pure white.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

thanks for the answer Vol. 2

I'm using the 240p test suite here

The 2950 has RCUT, GCUT, BCUT, GGAIN and BGAIN ajustments in the service menu (no RGAIN though but since it's the only one missing, I guess I can work all other settings around it)

Brightness and Contrast are outside of the service menu (in the regular menu) and i can't switch between these menus without turning the TV off, but... oh well that's a minor annoyance I guess


I'll try the stuff you mentionned. What's HOR? and when you mentionned an alternative : a ''white raster'', do you mean a full white screen, or a white grid(guessing it's the former but... just to be sure)?
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

FinalBaton wrote:thanks for the answer Vol. 2

I'll try the stuff you mentionned. What's HOR? and when you mentionned an alternative : a ''white raster'', do you mean a full white screen, or a white grid(guessing it's the former but... just to be sure)?

HOR is just me being too lazy to write horizontal.

White raster=white screen

no RGAIN though but since it's the only one missing, I guess I can work all other settings around it
Yes, that's what I meant by:
Some sets only have 2 Gain controls and typically have the red as a constant voltage so you won't have much guesswork to do, just make the green and the blue levels create pure white.
It's a typical setup for TVs. PC monitors often have all three.


If you have a service menu, that makes things more complicated. There will be a certain order of operations. Also, you will still need to get inside. The menu only gives you access to some of the controls, not the Focus and the G2.

Here, read this: https://archive.org/details/sony_PVM-29 ... 5/mode/2up
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by AaronSR »

In OBS when streaming PS1 stuff (320X240 > 320X224) should the image be skewed to a 4:3 ratio? Just want to double check because I usually instead of upscaling the image to 1028X720 (after cropping the top and bottom black bars) the image should then be skewed to a 960X720 resolution, correct? This is sort of how a CRT does it (well, it kinda cuts off the top and bottom overscan to achieve the same)? There's also some games like Crash and Spyro that run at really wide resolution (512X224)

So 960X720 for pretty much everything from SD consoles (except games with widescreen support)? Thanks
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

If I connect a Dreamcast vga to av3 rgbhv on the ossc and a 3.5mm rca audio adapter then to a dsc 301 I get no audio.

It works fine for ypbpr and I even tested plugging in the Dreamcast audio while it was on the ypbpr input and I did get the Dreamcast audio then.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

AaronSR wrote:In OBS when streaming PS1 stuff (320X240 > 320X224) should the image be skewed to a 4:3 ratio? Just want to double check because I usually instead of upscaling the image to 1028X720 (after cropping the top and bottom black bars) the image should then be skewed to a 960X720 resolution, correct? This is sort of how a CRT does it (well, it kinda cuts off the top and bottom overscan to achieve the same)? There's also some games like Crash and Spyro that run at really wide resolution (512X224)

So 960X720 for pretty much everything from SD consoles (except games with widescreen support)? Thanks
I'd say yes; if the game does not have explicit widescreen support, then the resulting image should be adjusted to 4:3. Apply overscan as/if desired.

Variable horizontal resolutions are pretty common up through the 5th and 6th generation, when CRTs still ruled, so they should not be displayed 1:1 on a fixed-pixel display.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

Guile wrote:If I connect a Dreamcast vga to av3 rgbhv on the ossc and a 3.5mm rca audio adapter then to a dsc 301 I get no audio.

It works fine for ypbpr and I even tested plugging in the Dreamcast audio while it was on the ypbpr input and I did get the Dreamcast audio then.
From what you said, and assuming you have a 1.6 OSSC (you didn't specify), you're using the wrong audio input for AV3; you need to use the TRS jack next to the DE-15 input. The TRS jack next to the HDMI output is for AV2 input (or AV1 breakout, if you flip the little switch).
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

nmalinoski wrote: From what you said, and assuming you have a 1.6 OSSC (you didn't specify), you're using the wrong audio input for AV3; you need to use the TRS jack next to the DE-15 input. The TRS jack next to the HDMI output is for AV2 input (or AV1 breakout, if you flip the little switch).
Thanks that did it. I was also confused as one of my scalers doesn't pass audio. I do have a 1.6 ossc and the audio jack was next to the hdmi port on the opposite side of the AV1 jack, there was no jack near the DE-15.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by TrantaLocked_ »

I have a Sony Trinitron KV-34HS510 and had a few questions about the service menu.

1. First, there were a couple settings I found that looked like they actually raised the white level past the regular user adjustable range (increasing contrast ratio without clipping) but want to make sure I'm not being fooled. Those settings are SPIC and YGN. SPIC at 15 appears to increase true contrast ratio but I wasn't sure if this was a good idea to set past the default 7. The set does appear to lower brightness level if it detects a scene with too much pure white in when I have "Picture" set close to max.

2. I was also wondering if there was a good test image or test suite for the dozen or so settings under "CXA2170D-1" which control image dimensions and warping. It has been nearly impossible getting these correct just with a menu or game.

3. I want to get a view of the full 1080i frame but when I try to disable horizontal blanking, the set doesn't really allow me to see the whole picture when I lower HSIZ. Even with left blanking set the best I can it still cuts off the left side, and depending on what I do it will often overwrite itself on the right side of the image which makes me think the set just isn't capable of scanning the full width of a 1920x1080i frame in the user viewable space. Not that the width is the only problem, as trying to see more of the top results in horizontal break distortions that are unsuitable for viewing. So essentially I need to live with a slight overscan on 1080i signals, correct?

4. Then, I was trying to find settings like AXPL, AXNT and AXIS and was not able to find them. Is there some sub menu I need to access?

5. I was really interested in HDPT because it looked great to me for the most part, increasing perceived resolution but I don't know how much of it is natural or fake like a sharpening filter. Playing games I have to decide between the apparent increase in resolution with higher lag or with HDPT off with near zero-lag.

6. I went through convergence settings and maybe improved things a little bit as white vertical lines match up well enough, but the biggest problem still is horizontal lines not matching up. Also the sides of the screen are blurrier than the center. Do I need to open up the set to fix these?

Despite some of my issues and questions the set looks amazing. I haven't played on a CRT in over ten years. I wanted to get an XBR960 but they all go for at least $400. Maybe one day, but for now I'm happy to experience the HS510.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

TrantaLocked_ wrote:
1. Not sure. Haven't messed with that.

2. Test patterns should ideally be from the system you are using. People use 240p test suite a lot, but that won't help for 1080i. You can buy a pattern generator, or you can use a DVD player with a burned series of test patterns that you download online.

3. I think there might be more than one setting in there that controls H Size. Keep poking around in the geometry stuff.

4.No clue.

5. HDPT on turns the digital processing off, reducing lag, not the other way around. It's High Definition Pass Through, it was created because of a bug in the original design that prevented certain cable satellite services from working correctly on the set. It's speculated that Sony knew about the issue before the set was released and included the pass through to safeguard against issues.

6. You would have to buy and learn to use convergence strips to do that. It's not impossible, but it's kind of an art and I've never tried it before. There are some youtube videos on it.

If you really want to go further down the road, you should read all the history, which is mostly on the AVS Forums. That's where stuff like this was discussed in the early 2000s. Make sure you get the end of it all before you apply anything; there are many developments that change over the course of it.

This one mostly:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/signal ... vs.293741/

But also this one:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/comput ... ts.270471/
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by TrantaLocked_ »

vol.2 wrote:
TrantaLocked_ wrote:
1. Not sure. Haven't messed with that.

2. Test patterns should ideally be from the system you are using. People use 240p test suite a lot, but that won't help for 1080i. You can buy a pattern generator, or you can use a DVD player with a burned series of test patterns that you download online.

3. I think there might be more than one setting in there that controls H Size. Keep poking around in the geometry stuff.

4.No clue.

5. HDPT on turns the digital processing off, reducing lag, not the other way around. It's High Definition Pass Through, it was created because of a bug in the original design that prevented certain cable satellite services from working correctly on the set. It's speculated that Sony knew about the issue before the set was released and included the pass through to safeguard against issues.

6. You would have to buy and learn to use convergence strips to do that. It's not impossible, but it's kind of an art and I've never tried it before. There are some youtube videos on it.

If you really want to go further down the road, you should read all the history, which is mostly on the AVS Forums. That's where stuff like this was discussed in the early 2000s. Make sure you get the end of it all before you apply anything; there are many developments that change over the course of it.

This one mostly:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/signal ... vs.293741/

But also this one:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/comput ... ts.270471/
Thanks. Do you have a clear idea of what the digital processing is actually doing? To me it looks like an advanced sharpening filter, probably the best I've ever seen, but I also speculated that it also involved speed modulation of the laser to help increase definition at color transitions. i also don't get what it's doing to the color, as in how or why, but it looks really good to me.

As for H size, you're right but there are a ton of sub-settings to go through. I mean if I'm really set on it I will figure it out and it's likely it ends up futile, so I thought someone might have already done it themselves (as in completely disabling overscan without any edge artifacts and with a full view, edge to edge, of a full 1920x1080i frame). Not that I'm sure that's a totally good thing though, maybe it's better for small text clarity to be zoomed in more.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

TrantaLocked_ wrote:Do you have a clear idea of what the digital processing is actually doing?
It's not just doing one thing. The DRC chip is actually pretty advanced. SONY was generally pretty cagey about that stuff, and I don't think there is a confirmed set of what it does anywhere, but there are some good empirical guesses in those threads that I linked for you. If you really want to know, the best way is to read the AVS threads.

Keep reading the service manual. The geometry stuff is all in the same place. Get a notebook, make a chart of the values every time you change anything to keep track of what's happening. Don't switch around sources when you are setting geometry. Different inputs have different geometry settings.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by AaronSR »

nmalinoski wrote:
AaronSR wrote:In OBS when streaming PS1 stuff (320X240 > 320X224) should the image be skewed to a 4:3 ratio? Just want to double check because I usually instead of upscaling the image to 1028X720 (after cropping the top and bottom black bars) the image should then be skewed to a 960X720 resolution, correct? This is sort of how a CRT does it (well, it kinda cuts off the top and bottom overscan to achieve the same)? There's also some games like Crash and Spyro that run at really wide resolution (512X224)

So 960X720 for pretty much everything from SD consoles (except games with widescreen support)? Thanks
I'd say yes; if the game does not have explicit widescreen support, then the resulting image should be adjusted to 4:3. Apply overscan as/if desired.

Variable horizontal resolutions are pretty common up through the 5th and 6th generation, when CRTs still ruled, so they should not be displayed 1:1 on a fixed-pixel display.
And same for 256X224 (SNES games) should be stretched to also be 4:3 (960X720) I'm assuming?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bulbafett »

I have a gamecube setup running with EON MKII outputting through some SCART cables I got from console5 (https://console5.com/store/nintendo-wii ... cable.html) and I'm having issue where the screen just gradually gets whiter and whiter until its solid white and unusable.

I'm not sure how to trouble shoot if this is an issue with the gamecube, the Eon or the cable.

Here are examples of what it is doing
https://paste.pics/0ae84f9841b6a6b10b38133050a156d6 - started at 9:07
https://paste.pics/bc20ac836dd1b05184856ab488ade668 - 9:09
https://paste.pics/2c5aa17c74bfbcd108b35deb310efd1a - 9:12

by 9:15 its completely white and unplayable.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

Guile wrote:
nmalinoski wrote: From what you said, and assuming you have a 1.6 OSSC (you didn't specify), you're using the wrong audio input for AV3; you need to use the TRS jack next to the DE-15 input. The TRS jack next to the HDMI output is for AV2 input (or AV1 breakout, if you flip the little switch).
Thanks that did it. I was also confused as one of my scalers doesn't pass audio. I do have a 1.6 ossc and the audio jack was next to the hdmi port on the opposite side of the AV1 jack, there was no jack near the DE-15.
Oops; my mistake; but, yes, it was the other one. :P
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

AaronSR wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
AaronSR wrote:In OBS when streaming PS1 stuff (320X240 > 320X224) should the image be skewed to a 4:3 ratio? Just want to double check because I usually instead of upscaling the image to 1028X720 (after cropping the top and bottom black bars) the image should then be skewed to a 960X720 resolution, correct? This is sort of how a CRT does it (well, it kinda cuts off the top and bottom overscan to achieve the same)? There's also some games like Crash and Spyro that run at really wide resolution (512X224)

So 960X720 for pretty much everything from SD consoles (except games with widescreen support)? Thanks
I'd say yes; if the game does not have explicit widescreen support, then the resulting image should be adjusted to 4:3. Apply overscan as/if desired.

Variable horizontal resolutions are pretty common up through the 5th and 6th generation, when CRTs still ruled, so they should not be displayed 1:1 on a fixed-pixel display.
And same for 256X224 (SNES games) should be stretched to also be 4:3 (960X720) I'm assuming?
Yes. Everything SNES should be distorted to 4:3.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

can the OSSC convert to a locked 60fps?

I want to send a 720p upscaled signal to my capture card and preferably locked at stable 60fps. I recognize the Retrotink 5x does this and that it's a dynamite product at a fair price but I don't have the budget for it at the moment.

I'm eying the OSSC which I can get at $200 CAD and I hope if can convert to stable 60 but if not I might use it anyway. although I'd prefer to capture 60 to avoid stutter, sound pitch-shifting in parts etc. just seems easier for streaming to pump 60 fps all the way from OBS to Youtube.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

The OSSC output ALWAYS follows the input refresh rate.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

I see. Thanks Fudoh!
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by TrantaLocked_ »

Anyone have info on how upscaling is going to work on the MakeMHz XboxHD+ mod? Will it set the GPU to a chosen output resolution or is a chip on the mod doing the upscaling?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

TrantaLocked_ wrote:Anyone have info on how upscaling is going to work on the MakeMHz XboxHD+ mod? Will it set the GPU to a chosen output resolution or is a chip on the mod doing the upscaling?
I think it's unlikely that it's causing the Xbox itself to do any additional work; I think it most likely that the mod itself is performing upscaling.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by TrantaLocked_ »

nmalinoski wrote:
TrantaLocked_ wrote:Anyone have info on how upscaling is going to work on the MakeMHz XboxHD+ mod? Will it set the GPU to a chosen output resolution or is a chip on the mod doing the upscaling?
I think it's unlikely that it's causing the Xbox itself to do any additional work; I think it most likely that the mod itself is performing upscaling.
The reason I thought it could be the Xbox GPU is sort of how you can run games in a 640x480 resolution in your computer's OS but the output to your monitor is higher. Usually when people talk about patching Xbox games to run in 720p like Halo 1, they are talking about actually changing the games internal rendering resolution which has a performance penalty, but I thought maybe there was a way to set the GPU output sort of like how you would on a computer, where the content itself runs the same but is simply nearest neighbor or bilinear upscaled to your output resolution. As far as I know that doesn't add input lag but I'm not really sure.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

TrantaLocked_ wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
TrantaLocked_ wrote:Anyone have info on how upscaling is going to work on the MakeMHz XboxHD+ mod? Will it set the GPU to a chosen output resolution or is a chip on the mod doing the upscaling?
I think it's unlikely that it's causing the Xbox itself to do any additional work; I think it most likely that the mod itself is performing upscaling.
The reason I thought it could be the Xbox GPU is sort of how you can run games in a 640x480 resolution in your computer's OS but the output to your monitor is higher. Usually when people talk about patching Xbox games to run in 720p like Halo 1, they are talking about actually changing the games internal rendering resolution which has a performance penalty, but I thought maybe there was a way to set the GPU output sort of like how you would on a computer, where the content itself runs the same but is simply nearest neighbor or bilinear upscaled to your output resolution. As far as I know that doesn't add input lag but I'm not really sure.
I don't believe the Xbox GPU has that ability but I'm not sure
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

maxtherabbit wrote:
TrantaLocked_ wrote:The reason I thought it could be the Xbox GPU is sort of how you can run games in a 640x480 resolution in your computer's OS but the output to your monitor is higher. Usually when people talk about patching Xbox games to run in 720p like Halo 1, they are talking about actually changing the games internal rendering resolution which has a performance penalty, but I thought maybe there was a way to set the GPU output sort of like how you would on a computer, where the content itself runs the same but is simply nearest neighbor or bilinear upscaled to your output resolution. As far as I know that doesn't add input lag but I'm not really sure.
I don't believe the Xbox GPU has that ability but I'm not sure
I also think it lacks this ability; sure, it's common now, but I don't recall anything like this back in 2000/2001 when the Xbox was designed and produced. CRTs were still the most common display at that point, so needing to disconnect the rendering video mode from the output video mode (Which I'd say is primarily to avoid HDMI blackouts) wasn't even a consideration.
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