Questions that do not deserve a thread

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Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

SamIAm wrote: I just mean in terms of timing. Some systems have weird timing quirks that Extrons with ADSP enabled will try to fix...sometimes successfully, sometimes not...and it might be significant to the specific monitors I use if this Crosspoint does anything along similar lines.
Not that I'm aware of. Which systems specifically are you talking about? And what weird things would I be on the lookout for?

I have the usual mainstream consoles: NES, TG16, Genesis, SNES, Saturn, PS1, N64, DC, PS2, GC, OG Xbox, 360, Wii, and no problems I've seen (and have 2x+ of each console I've tried through 3x different sizes of Crosspoints, normally going to Sony PVM and BVM monitors, along with Component consumer sets...have tried a bunch of JVC, Panasonic, and an Ikegami or two as well).
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

auto gain control is a fully analog process, if it changed the sync timing at all it would be by nanoseconds
SamIAm
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by SamIAm »

Dochartaigh wrote: Not that I'm aware of. Which systems specifically are you talking about? And what weird things would I be on the lookout for?

I have the usual mainstream consoles: NES, TG16, Genesis, SNES, Saturn, PS1, N64, DC, PS2, GC, OG Xbox, 360, Wii, and no problems I've seen (and have 2x+ of each console I've tried through 3x different sizes of Crosspoints, normally going to Sony PVM and BVM monitors, along with Component consumer sets...have tried a bunch of JVC, Panasonic, and an Ikegami or two as well).
That's all good to hear. A few things were worrying me a little:

1. My Ikegami HTM-2050R2 is super-picky about imperfect sync. I have to put PC Engine sync through an Extron 160xi with ADSP and serration removal enabled to get it to work with it. Interestingly, other models of Extrons with the same options won't do this successfully.
2. My Shibasoku CM-201N has an old Extron 202 Plus in front of it to help with horizontal positioning because the monitor's own pot that controls that is on the inside, on the deflection board. I'd like to keep using this particular Extron since every system I have gets along with it.

I actually have the Crosspoint already, which I got for a good price. Now, I just need to commit to buying cables. :)
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

SamIAm wrote: That's all good to hear. A few things were worrying me a little:

1. My Ikegami HTM-2050R2 is super-picky about imperfect sync. I have to put PC Engine sync through an Extron 160xi with ADSP and serration removal enabled to get it to work with it. Interestingly, other models of Extrons with the same options won't do this successfully.
Yeah, unfortunately those Ikegami's are super picky - that's why I stay away from those, the BVM-esque JVC's, the entire Sony BVM A-Series (you know, if I found one with that $1500+ card...), the Sony BVM D9 and D14...all of those suck with these non-broadcast grade console signals from more than a few different systems.

This might be useless for you, I haven't been following the JVC and Ikegami sync-problem threads that much of late (don't know what their latest snd greatest solutions may be), but I did add to my equipment an Extron RGB 580xi to try out. I had several D14's and D9's which had similar sync issues to the Ikegami and JVC's, and the 580xi's Comp dipswitch (which the other Extron RGB's don't have), is supposed to help on some systems and on some monitors with those type of sync issues. --Just a thought, as the 580xi is cheap (I paid $24 shipped a few months ago I think), just to keep around if I happened to pickup yet another D9/D14 (which would also be the first device I tried on any other monitor with issues like these).

Anyway, I don't have your exact monitor to test, but from what I've seen so far the Crosspoint isn't changing the signal in any way besides the sync lines to TTL (which can even be corrected with a resistor, which I do for my OSSC, Framemeister, and Shinybow SB-2840 - all of which can be damaged from that higher sync since they're consumer-oriented devices). Good luck with your Crosspoint - if you have any questions feel free to PM me, I'm up to a 32x32 now... (after outgrowing the 12x8 and 16x16).
SamIAm
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by SamIAm »

Dochartaigh wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately those Ikegami's are super picky - that's why I stay away from those, the BVM-esque JVC's, the entire Sony BVM A-Series (you know, if I found one with that $1500+ card...), the Sony BVM D9 and D14...all of those suck with these non-broadcast grade console signals from more than a few different systems.
It certainly would be a relief not to have to worry about compatibility and positioning. The thing is, I just love the way the Shibasoku and Ikegamis look. I actually picked up three Ikegami HTM-2050R2s because they weren't so expensive in Japan at the time and they're gorgeous.
This might be useless for you, I haven't been following the JVC and Ikegami sync-problem threads that much of late (don't know what their latest snd greatest solutions may be), but I did add to my equipment an Extron RGB 580xi to try out. I had several D14's and D9's which had similar sync issues to the Ikegami and JVC's, and the 580xi's Comp dipswitch (which the other Extron RGB's don't have), is supposed to help on some systems and on some monitors with those type of sync issues. --Just a thought, as the 580xi is cheap (I paid $24 shipped a few months ago I think), just to keep around if I happened to pickup yet another D9/D14 (which would also be the first device I tried on any other monitor with issues like these).
I have one 160xi, and it does indeed fix PCE video. I suspect that any of the "xi" Extrons would do the same, but I can't be sure. Meanwhile, the SS 200, which is new and is supposed to have the same ADSP technology, won't work with it. Neither will the ancient RGB 202 Plus or the somewhat younger RGB 304.

Getting Extron boxes is tough because I'm in Japan, where they are quite rare. Getting what I have so far was the product of much luck and patience.
Anyway, I don't have your exact monitor to test, but from what I've seen so far the Crosspoint isn't changing the signal in any way besides the sync lines to TTL (which can even be corrected with a resistor, which I do for my OSSC, Framemeister, and Shinybow SB-2840 - all of which can be damaged from that higher sync since they're consumer-oriented devices). Good luck with your Crosspoint - if you have any questions feel free to PM me, I'm up to a 32x32 now... (after outgrowing the 12x8 and 16x16).
Thanks! I'll probably do that! I remember your giant setup thread in CRTGaming - you probably know how these things work better than anyone at this point.
GojiFan90
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by GojiFan90 »

Hello all. I'm considering doing an RGB mod on my N64 but I have a question before I proceed. I realize that S-video can still be used with an RGB amp installed, but is the S-video output signal affected at all by the presence of the RGB amp? Or will picture quality over S-video still be identical?
nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

GojiFan90 wrote:Hello all. I'm considering doing an RGB mod on my N64 but I have a question before I proceed. I realize that S-video can still be used with an RGB amp installed, but is the S-video output signal affected at all by the presence of the RGB amp? Or will picture quality over S-video still be identical?
S-Video functionality won't be affected.

RGB should be as clear as S-Video, but the colors will be better; it won't be as revolutionary a jump from S-Video to RGB as the one from composite to S-Video.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

nmalinoski wrote:
GojiFan90 wrote:Hello all. I'm considering doing an RGB mod on my N64 but I have a question before I proceed. I realize that S-video can still be used with an RGB amp installed, but is the S-video output signal affected at all by the presence of the RGB amp? Or will picture quality over S-video still be identical?
S-Video functionality won't be affected.

RGB should be as clear as S-Video, but the colors will be better; it won't be as revolutionary a jump from S-Video to RGB as the one from composite to S-Video.
Correct

The onboard video encoder's output is not altered in anyway. CVBS and Y/C will not change whatsoever
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Kez
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Kez »

Has anyone here used the Sega Saturn Mission Stick? I have a Japanese one (in diarrhoea brown) and it works okay, but it seems overly sensitive, like it has no deadzone at all. When the stick is centred or let go of, the crosshair/character wobbles about in an annoying fashion.

Is this just a quirk of the device, or does mine have an issue? I have cleaned the hall effects sensors, which hasn't helped. I am wondering if the spring is worn out, but don't know how easy it would be to find a replacement.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

I haven't been following this much lately, but has anybody done a comparison of the different GameCube 480p devices/mods which output RGBS? (don't care/want HDMI). I think there's quite a few available now, right? Both plug and play types, and internal mods? --still see the GCVideo is out of stock (was it ever in stock or they're still working on it?).

Same question for the Wii - seems like the WiiDual is the only one which can export RGBS, correct? And it looks like they already did the first round and pre-orders are open for the second round? Any other options? ---trying to get all my systems to RGBS (and 480p) and these are the last two.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

Dochartaigh wrote:I haven't been following this much lately, but has anybody done a comparison of the different GameCube 480p devices/mods which output RGBS? (don't care/want HDMI). I think there's quite a few available now, right? Both plug and play types, and internal mods? --still see the GCVideo is out of stock (was it ever in stock or they're still working on it?).

Same question for the Wii - seems like the WiiDual is the only one which can export RGBS, correct? And it looks like they already did the first round and pre-orders are open for the second round? Any other options? ---trying to get all my systems to RGBS (and 480p) and these are the last two.
does it have to be RGBS specifically? the official gamecube component cable can be easily modded to output RGBHV 480p, but I'm unclear if it has a composite sync mode

if that doesn't work for you, I think the only other options that have RGBS 480p are citrus3000psi's designs - the gcdual and the Eon MkII
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

maxtherabbit wrote:does it have to be RGBS specifically? the official gamecube component cable can be easily modded to output RGBHV 480p, but I'm unclear if it has a composite sync mode
Yeah, has to be RGBS (hopefully Csync for my Crosspoint switcher) which Sony PVM and BVM monitors take. Specifically also not looking at the component cables because of their super high cost - would rather pay $50 for a mod like the GCVideo Analog than $150+ for the original cables (these aren't consoles I play all that much).
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

Dochartaigh wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:does it have to be RGBS specifically? the official gamecube component cable can be easily modded to output RGBHV 480p, but I'm unclear if it has a composite sync mode
Yeah, has to be RGBS (hopefully Csync for my Crosspoint switcher) which Sony PVM and BVM monitors take. Specifically also not looking at the component cables because of their super high cost - would rather pay $50 for a mod like the GCVideo Analog than $150+ for the original cables (these aren't consoles I play all that much).
I think your only option is dan's internal mod then. Not sure how much that costs. The only COTS solution is the Eon MkII which is also $150
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bobrocks95
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Dochartaigh wrote:Same question for the Wii - seems like the WiiDual is the only one which can export RGBS, correct? And it looks like they already did the first round and pre-orders are open for the second round? Any other options? ---trying to get all my systems to RGBS (and 480p) and these are the last two.
IIRC citrus said there's no analog-only (or digital-only) option for the Wii because each part adds a negligible cost. There might be a simpler mod or a region switch or something you could do for the Wii to get RGBHV though.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
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theclaw
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by theclaw »

A stock Wii won't output 480p in either RGBS or RGBHV.
The plug and play route is transcoding from component. You won't have to mess around with softmodding the system to PAL.

480p RGBHV was actually implemented, if never used, by the Gamecube component cable.
Doesn't look to me like there's RGBS. But my cable is not modded.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

theclaw wrote:A stock Wii won't output 480p in either RGBS or RGBHV.
The plug and play route is transcoding from component. You won't have to mess around with softmodding the system to PAL.
I know a stock Wii won't output 480p in RGBS/RGBHV - but it seems there's mod(s) out there now which let you do this. Already have like 4 different types of quality YPbPr to RGBS converters - just want to loose the converter and use a mod instead (trying to simplify my A/V server rack, slowly).
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Extrems
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Extrems »

The AVE-RVL is capable of 480p RGBHV output, but the HV lines aren't connected.
nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

Wouldn't be ideal in any regard, but a GCVideo HDMI solution plus an active HDMI to VGA adapter plus an Extron RGB Interface should work.
Ikaruga11
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

So I know the Wii U can output a digital 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's HDMI port and an analog YPbPr 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's AV Multi-Out port, but can it output an analog RGB 1080p/720p/480p signal through the same AV Multi-Out port too?

I want to get pure analog RGB out of the Wii U and play at 720p and 1080p. Is this possible?
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

no, but a HDMI to RGBHV converter dongle ($15) will do the trick.
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Extrems
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Extrems »

The Wii U is too poorly documented to answer that.
SavagePencil
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by SavagePencil »

I'm trying to hook my Atari Lynx with VGA out into my existing setup. Is it better to go VGA -> SCART or VGA -> Component?
nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

SavagePencil wrote:I'm trying to hook my Atari Lynx with VGA out into my existing setup. Is it better to go VGA -> SCART or VGA -> Component?
Depends on what you want to do, really; whether your setup relies more on RGB or YPbPr, or you want to use a display that supports one but not the other.

Going to SCART is easier, because all you'd need to do is combine HV to composite sync, leaving the original RGB intact. I expect you'll be able to get a cable made by Retro-Access or RGC that includes a sync combiner in the SCART head, otherwise you can use an RGB Interface, such as those made by Extron, and a BNC->SCART adapter or cable.

Going to YPbPr (assuming that's what you meant by component, as pretty much anything aside from RF and composite can be considered component), your choices are more limited. The only readily-available VGA->YPbPr converter that I'm aware of is this one made by Retrotek, which supports 1080i (1080p supposedly should work, but it hasn't been extensively tested, so it's not advertised).

You could go VGA->SCART->YPbPr component, as SCART->YPbPr component equipment is more readily available, but it increases both cost and complexity.
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orange808
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by orange808 »

The new Garo component to RGB design starts shipping within a week.

Nothing too complex. :) Plug the cords in.
We apologise for the inconvenience
fernan1234
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

GeneraLight wrote:So I know the Wii U can output a digital 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's HDMI port and an analog YPbPr 1080p/720p/480p signal through it's AV Multi-Out port, but can it output an analog RGB 1080p/720p/480p signal through the same AV Multi-Out port too?

I want to get pure analog RGB out of the Wii U and play at 720p and 1080p. Is this possible?
As suggested you can use an HDMI to VGA dongle, though as far as I know the Wii U digital output only does limited RGB so the analog component probably looks just as good. The HDFury 3 (and 4?) supposedly can do color upscaling to full RGB. That's what I use but I have not bothered to make comparisons and check if it really makes a difference or not.
Ikaruga11
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Thanks everyone. I think I'll just stick to YPbPr instead of converting to RGB for my analog output, since that seems to be what the Wii U generates internally anyway, like the GameCube and Wii.

1) Is the Wii U's YPbPr output higher quality than it's HDMI output, since the HDMI signal suffers from Limited Range RGB (16-235) while the YPbPr output does not?
2) Since the Wii U's digital HDMI output is Limited Range RGB (16-235), would converting it to 4:2:2 HD-SDI reduce the picture quality at all?
fernan1234
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

GeneraLight wrote:Thanks everyone. I think I'll just stick to YPbPr instead of converting to RGB for my analog output, since that seems to be what the Wii U generates internally anyway, like the GameCube and Wii.

1) Is the Wii U's YPbPr output higher quality than it's HDMI output, since the HDMI signal suffers from Limited Range RGB (16-235) while the YPbPr output does not?
2) Since the Wii U's digital HDMI output is Limited Range RGB (16-235), would converting it to 4:2:2 HD-SDI reduce the picture quality at all?
1) YPbPr won't be better than HDMI, it's also a limited color range compared to full RGB, but it shouldn't be worse if you're going to go analog in the end anyway.
2) Maybe not in terms of picture quality, but I recall hearing that converting to HD-SDI has other disadvantages, including adding a bit of lag. This is why I ended up converting HDMI to RGB through an Extron rxi unit rather than using an HD-SDI input card (plus I can't stand the fan noise on it).

BTW the GC/Wii does generate YPbPr internally but I do think there's advantage to using their analog RGB output when possible (either through a PAL console or one of the Dual kits or plug-and-play solutions now available) if using an RGB monitor. At least on my BVM it's easier to get colors and white balance to look "right" on RGB input rather than component. But it's a minor difference probably.
BONKERS
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by BONKERS »

So, bought a new PSU for my SNES. Still a black screen. CPU is probably dead then huh? (You know over the years it has had some trouble reading games here and there. Where you'd have to insert it multiple times to get it to work. I always assumed dirty cart connectors and dirty Zif. But maybe that was the CPU slowly failing??)

Man, even getting just a replacement console (No cords,controllers) is still really expensive on Ebay these days. Darn.
Stainomo
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Stainomo »

Can anyone advice on on a simple device which can realize the following Picture in Picture situation?

Image

2x HDMI - in 1x out
Lag does not matter (not for fast gaming)

A lot of Chinese devices do Picture-in-Picture but hardly any devices which show what kind of configuration they actually support.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

Stainomo wrote:Can anyone advice on on a simple device which can realize the following Picture in Picture situation?
Closest off the top of my head (just because I own one), and probably way more advanced than you might be looking for, is the TVOne C2-6104A. I've only really messed with it's 4-up picture defaults (i.e. 4x inputs displayed on a single 1080p screen in a number of different grid configurations), but the PC programming/setup software is pretty advanced and lets you (I think, not positive - it's been a while since I've messed with mine...could never really figure it out 100% yet TBH) do whichever grids you want, at whatever resolutions you want, in whatever grid(s) configuration you want (including upscaling and downscaling). They can be really expensive though, but you can always setup an alert on eBay which is how I got mine for a good price.

I think the MUCH more affordable (last one seems to have sold for ~$110) TVOne C2-750 is advertised as "Single and Dual PIP" (probably some other similar models too). I believe I have/had a couple of these but have never messed with it's PIP feature. BOTH of these use DVI inputs (Digital=HDMI or Analog), which you can use a cheap HDMI to DVI adapters with to get HDMI in and out (might have to look into audio embedding if you want to go that route too).

C2-1250 has PIP listed as well, but that ones inputs/outputs seem to be more focused on analog signals.

Hope you can find something more simple though...
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