Questions that do not deserve a thread

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Ikaruga11
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Are there any advantages or disadvantages of installing a Unibios if you've already got a Neo SD Pro?
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kitty666cats
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

NoAffinity wrote:If I incorporate a lm1881 based sync stripper into the output of my scart switch, will it pass through csync without affecting it?

I have 4 consoles connected to the switch that are csync and 2 that are sync on luma. Looking to clean up the sync on luma signals without affecting the csync'ers.

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Very highly doubt the csync will be affected. I've ran csync through tons of different stripping cables/devices with no issue (the exception being my old RGB-Pi, its 12v signal being the cause. But that thing is a GPIO hat, not a game console cable!)
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NoAffinity
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NoAffinity »

Thanks for the guidance, folks. I incorporated the sync stripper in and it fixed my issues. Tested outputs with crt and ossc - good all around...with one exception. Output from my supergun no longer worked. It was producing the same type of scrambled image that the two sync on luma devices were producing prior to incorporating the stripper.

The supergun is a ali express $40 special. It's actually quite good. I havent had any complaints with it to date. Upon examination, I found the supergun has a ths7314+lm1881 solution on board. I tried bypassing the lm1881 on the supergun altogether, and no difference. I finally ended up using the mini din output on the supergun instead of the scart output, and it works. I cant find a good reason why it works, as all significant pins between the two are continuous, no extra or different circuitry one way or the other. But, it's working so I've stopped thinking about it. There's always gotta be at least one fly in the ointment. :/

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pigswill
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by pigswill »

I recently installed voultar's PC Engine RGB board into a Duo-R and it seems to work great, except on my Sony PVM 14-L2 at the top there's some warping. This doesn't happen for my other systems like SNES. It also doesn't happen with the PC engine hooked up to my 20m2mdu. So I did some searching and found some threads here about sync problems that seem similar on BVMs and Ikegami monitors being fixed with an Extron RGB's SERR feature. So a couple questions about this:

Can this same sync issue happen on some PVMs like the 14-L2 too?

And if so, can the csync at 75ohm from a PCE RGB board be used on an Extron device with a passive scart to db-15 cable, or do I need something like a sync strike?

Any help is appreciated.
fernan1234
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by fernan1234 »

pigswill wrote:I recently installed voultar's PC Engine RGB board into a Duo-R and it seems to work great, except on my Sony PVM 14-L2 at the top there's some warping. This doesn't happen for my other systems like SNES. It also doesn't happen with the PC engine hooked up to my 20m2mdu. So I did some searching and found some threads here about sync problems that seem similar on BVMs and Ikegami monitors being fixed with an Extron RGB's SERR feature. So a couple questions about this:

Can this same sync issue happen on some PVMs like the 14-L2 too?

And if so, can the csync at 75ohm from a PCE RGB board be used on an Extron device with a passive scart to db-15 cable, or do I need something like a sync strike?

Any help is appreciated.
Does your monitor have a "VCR mode" setting somewhere within its menu? That usually fixed warping/flagging on the top of the picture from PC Engines modded for RGB.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

pigswill wrote:I recently installed voultar's PC Engine RGB board into a Duo-R and it seems to work great, except on my Sony PVM 14-L2 at the top there's some warping.
Hooked up via the regular built-in hookups, or the optional 129x card? 129x cards can have some funkiness so definitely try it via the regular connections. Myself personally, and YMMV, I would start out by resetting the 14L2 to factory (how to do this is in the manual, write down your values beforehand if you want – and you will have to redo your geometry). I would do this just in case somebody messed with a setting they shouldn't have.

pigswill wrote:And if so, can the csync at 75ohm from a PCE RGB board be used on an Extron device with a passive scart to db-15 cable, or do I need something like a sync strike?
Extron requires clean sync so as long as that's kosher looks like it would be fine. TG16/PCE is one of the consoles with sync issues and I commonly run it through an Extron RGB with SERR, but like you said usually only has issues on my BVM's (PVM's are usually fine).

Also keep in mind that SCART to db15/VGA is wired differently than db15/VGA to SCART so make sure you get or build the correct cable.
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pigswill
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by pigswill »

fernan1234 wrote: Does your monitor have a "VCR mode" setting somewhere within its menu? That usually fixed warping/flagging on the top of the picture from PC Engines modded for RGB.
I don't think pvms have the vcr mode sadly.
Dochartaigh wrote: Hooked up via the regular built-in hookups, or the optional 129x card? 129x cards can have some funkiness so definitely try it via the regular connections. Myself personally, and YMMV, I would start out by resetting the 14L2 to factory (how to do this is in the manual, write down your values beforehand if you want – and you will have to redo your geometry). I would do this just in case somebody messed with a setting they shouldn't have.

Extron requires clean sync so as long as that's kosher looks like it would be fine. TG16/PCE is one of the consoles with sync issues and I commonly run it through an Extron RGB with SERR, but like you said usually only has issues on my BVM's (PVM's are usually fine).

Also keep in mind that SCART to db15/VGA is wired differently than db15/VGA to SCART so make sure you get or build the correct cable.
It's hooked up through the built in BNC connectors, don't have a bkm-129x unfortunately. I'll go ahead and buy an extron, because the picture adjustment knobs will be useful even if it doesn't fix the PC engine problem. And if that doesn't fix it I'll reset to factory settings.
I was planning on building my own cable using the pinout on the left here.
Image

Thanks for the advice on this stuff guys.
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

When I replace a CRT tube with a LCD screen inside an existing chassis, what I can use to fill up the gaps between the new flat screen and the existing (curved) bezel ?
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

pigswill wrote:
fernan1234 wrote: Does your monitor have a "VCR mode" setting somewhere within its menu? That usually fixed warping/flagging on the top of the picture from PC Engines modded for RGB.
I don't think pvms have the vcr mode sadly.
Dochartaigh wrote: Hooked up via the regular built-in hookups, or the optional 129x card? 129x cards can have some funkiness so definitely try it via the regular connections. Myself personally, and YMMV, I would start out by resetting the 14L2 to factory (how to do this is in the manual, write down your values beforehand if you want – and you will have to redo your geometry). I would do this just in case somebody messed with a setting they shouldn't have.

Extron requires clean sync so as long as that's kosher looks like it would be fine. TG16/PCE is one of the consoles with sync issues and I commonly run it through an Extron RGB with SERR, but like you said usually only has issues on my BVM's (PVM's are usually fine).

Also keep in mind that SCART to db15/VGA is wired differently than db15/VGA to SCART so make sure you get or build the correct cable.
It's hooked up through the built in BNC connectors, don't have a bkm-129x unfortunately. I'll go ahead and buy an extron, because the picture adjustment knobs will be useful even if it doesn't fix the PC engine problem. And if that doesn't fix it I'll reset to factory settings.
I was planning on building my own cable using the pinout on the left here.
Image

Thanks for the advice on this stuff guys.

A couple of suggestions for you.

-check to see if the mod lets you switch between composite sync and c-sync

-if it's a sync issue, you would fix it by using a sync stripper, you wouldn't need the extron. in that case, buy a cheap device that has an lm1881 on it. you can even just buy a PCB from OSH Park and build your own. they are dead simple

-the extron might not work without clean sync anyway (some of them are more tolerant than others)

-if none of that works, try sync on green. raphnet has an article on it, but basically just take clean sync and combine it with the green through a 100uf cap and the green through a 680 ohm resistor. google raphnet sync on green for details. you need to clean the sync before that will work.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Fudoh wrote:When I replace a CRT tube with a LCD screen inside an existing chassis, what I can use to fill up the gaps between the new flat screen and the existing (curved) bezel ?
ideally, you build a bracket with some wood (plywood or MDF). if you don't have the tools for that, you could try either a putty that will fit in there or some foam.

if you use foam, try to get something that won't break down too quickly or turn to goo. Silicone foam strips are good for that, but a little on the expensive side. We have a mail order company in the US called McMaster that people order stuff like that from, and it let's you go through and pick the density of the foam and everything. You would want something on low density side, like medium-low. If it's too dense, it won't compress around the shape of the bezel.
GojiFan90
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by GojiFan90 »

What's the best way to play Wii games through a Wii U? Should I set the output resolution of the Wii U to 480p and use analog component cables, or should I just set to my display resolution (1080p) and let the Wii U upscale over HDMI?
nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

GojiFan90 wrote:What's the best way to play Wii games through a Wii U? Should I set the output resolution of the Wii U to 480p and use analog component cables, or should I just set to my display resolution (1080p) and let the Wii U upscale over HDMI?
I would think digital to digital would be best, so skip analogue output. You will need to be the one to determine whether letting the Wii U or your TV upscale to 1080p looks best to you.
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

For a 6ft run of component video, if I use your "next best" cable (let's say a 50 ohm audio cable), what's the expected loss compared to a proper 75 ohm coax cable ? Is there really any ? After all I think that proper (but flexible) audio cables are still better than the majority of original OEM console component cables.

My reason for asking: for test setups I can't stand those strong and unflexible component cables. For short and temporary connection I would prefer slim and flexible cables, but of course those aren't "made" for component video.

Signals are limited to 15 and 31khz, so no HD tranmissions via those.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

Fudoh wrote:For a 6ft run of component video, if I use your "next best" cable (let's say a 50 ohm audio cable), what's the expected loss compared to a proper 75 ohm coax cable ? Is there really any ? After all I think that proper (but flexible) audio cables are still better than the majority of original OEM console component cables.

My reason for asking: for test setups I can't stand those strong and unflexible component cables. For short and temporary connection I would prefer slim and flexible cables, but of course those aren't "made" for component video.

Signals are limited to 15 and 31khz, so no HD tranmissions via those.
Loss isn't so much the concern as reflection is. It probably won't be a big deal at 15kHz but might become noticeable at 480p.

Why not get something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/HD-Retrovision-Y ... B07KRKM96K

flexible and 75 ohm
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Why not get something like this:
because I assume that the middle part isn't as flexible as I need it to be.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Fudoh wrote:
Why not get something like this:
because I assume that the middle part isn't as flexible as I need it to be.
It's not quite that simple.

The "quality" of the cable is more about the construction of the cable than it is about the impedance. In general, 50 ohm coax is always going to thicker, stiffer and higher quality than 75 ohm coax. It's lower impedance because it's physically bigger. So, for line loss, lower is better.

However, for video signals, the equipment is expecting the cable to be 75 ohms. This sounds backwards but the way that it works is that the circuits are actually designed to operate with a specific load impedance.

If you were to graph the effect of line impedance on the signal, you are looking at signal degradation VS total power throughput. 75 ohms was chosen for video because it's a sweet-spot for signal integrity. 50 ohms is generally used for power delivery and such.

So, as maxtherabbit stated, it's about reflections. What happens is, every time you have an impedance mismatch, you lose roughly 5% of your signal. So that's 5% on both ends of the cable.
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

What about coax vs. stranded wire in general. The majority of original console cables are stranded, no coax after all. This is mainly where the flexibility comes from, right?
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Fudoh wrote:What about coax vs. stranded wire in general. The majority of original console cables are stranded, no coax after all. This is mainly where the flexibility comes from, right?
More or less. Stranding is definitely important for a number of reasons, including flexibility, but I have found that the choice of jacketing material plays a much more substantial role in the flexibility of the finished cable than does the amount of standing.

But if we are talking just solid coax VS stranded then, yes, the solid core coax is going to be stiffer. I'm sure you've used that cable TV stuff. It's hard to make that bend.

The trouble is that you can't really know how flexible one jacketing material is compared to another without trying it, unless they declare exactly what material they are using.

If you can find a cable that says it's got a silicone jacket, that has more likely chance to be flexible. That's like the white jackets that Apple uses for the iphone cables. It's very soft and flexible.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

Fudoh wrote:
Why not get something like this:
because I assume that the middle part isn't as flexible as I need it to be.
well I'm not exactly sure how much flexibility your require, but it's not as stiff as it looks

worst case you could just get some individual lengths of 75 ohm mini-coax and tip tie them together
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

well I'm not exactly sure how much flexibility your require
I would like some cables that don't push around lighter gear (like an OSSC or even a Portta converter) when the cables are being moved.

This has been bothering me for decades now. I don't care for any permanent setup, but for any test setup with little space, it's really annoying. Recently a bought a bunch of cables and among them was a 6ft audio RCA to 3.5mm cable that's so flexible that it just falls in place whichever way you move or place it.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Fudoh wrote:
well I'm not exactly sure how much flexibility your require
I would like some cables that don't push around lighter gear (like an OSSC or even a Portta converter) when the cables are being moved.

This has been bothering me for decades now. I don't care for any permanent setup, but for any test setup with little space, it's really annoying. Recently a bought a bunch of cables and among them was a 6ft audio RCA to 3.5mm cable that's so flexible that it just falls in place whichever way you move or place it.
I worked in event production for years, and there was only one real solution for that. For less permanent setups, just use small strips about 5cm apart along the cable.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Gaf ... 669&sr=8-6
ldeveraux
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

Fudoh wrote:
well I'm not exactly sure how much flexibility your require
I would like some cables that don't push around lighter gear (like an OSSC or even a Portta converter) when the cables are being moved.

This has been bothering me for decades now. I don't care for any permanent setup, but for any test setup with little space, it's really annoying. Recently a bought a bunch of cables and among them was a 6ft audio RCA to 3.5mm cable that's so flexible that it just falls in place whichever way you move or place it.
I can certainly get on board with this! Those SCART cables from KabelDirect love to unfurl randomly and knock my OSSC and switches onto the floor.
vol.2 wrote:I worked in event production for years, and there was only one real solution for that. For less permanent setups, just use small strips about 5cm apart along the cable.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Gaf ... 669&sr=8-6
I shouldn't need to tape my devices down for it to stay put.
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

For less permanent setups, just use small strips about 5cm apart along the cable.
:mrgreen: I often hook up systems, converters or upscalers for just half an hour or so - just to so kind of test run. I would feel silly taping down my cables.

I know, not the same thing, but compare HDMI cables from 15 years ago, when the connector was just introduced, to slim HDMI cables you can buy today and that work perfectly well with way higher transmission than those cables 15 years ago.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Fudoh wrote:
For less permanent setups, just use small strips about 5cm apart along the cable.
:mrgreen: I often hook up systems, converters or upscalers for just half an hour or so - just to so kind of test run. I would feel silly taping down my cables.
I often test hundreds of pcbs at a time and have to tape down cables to a bench in order to relieve tension on the connectors. Gaffers tape is the easiest thing in the world to use. All you have to do is use a tiny tab to keep the cable from moving around, and it can be reused many times.

If that still rubs you the wrong way, then keep looking for different cables that claim to be soft and flexible and eventually you're bound to find one that works well enough for you.
ldeveraux wrote: I shouldn't need to tape my devices down for it to stay put.
This is a request for a temporary solution. Gaffers tape degrades eventually and you wouldn't want to rely on it for a permanent setup.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

vol.2 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote: I shouldn't need to tape my devices down for it to stay put.
This is a request for a temporary solution. Gaffers tape degrades eventually and you wouldn't want to rely on it for a permanent setup.
I shouldn't need to tape my devices down temporarily for them to stay put.
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NewSchoolBoxer
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

vol.2 wrote:So, as maxtherabbit stated, it's about reflections. What happens is, every time you have an impedance mismatch, you lose roughly 5% of your signal. So that's 5% on both ends of the cable.
That's a good explanation. Part of that power loss creates a reflection of the signal that moves in the opposite direction. Can itself cause more interference especially being at the same frequencies. Bigger impedance mismatch the higher the frequencies so 240p and 480i aren't as bad as 480p or higher. Going between 50 and 75 ohm isn't catastrophic but I expect you can notice a difference in colors and sharpness versus 75 ohm to 75 ohm.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

NewSchoolBoxer wrote:Part of that power loss creates a reflection of the signal that moves in the opposite direction. Can itself cause more interference especially being at the same frequencies. Bigger impedance mismatch the higher the frequencies so 240p and 480i aren't as bad as 480p or higher. Going between 50 and 75 ohm isn't catastrophic but I expect you can notice a difference in colors and sharpness versus 75 ohm to 75 ohm.
I think the most important part is to understand that there is a difference between resistance and impedance. I think people get tripped up because they think, "hey, why doesn't this cable measure as 75 ohms?" I ran across this web page about matching video signals that clearly demonstrates that the author has absolutely no understanding of impedance at all; in one of the bullet point, they actually say that the cables aren't 75 ohms because they don't measure any resistance. (insert emoji of guy slapping his forehead) https://chipnetics.com/tutorials/unders ... o-signals/

The cable impedance is AC. That's the important figure because it's what constitutes your video signal.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by thchardcore »

ldeveraux wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote: I shouldn't need to tape my devices down for it to stay put.
This is a request for a temporary solution. Gaffers tape degrades eventually and you wouldn't want to rely on it for a permanent setup.
I shouldn't need to tape my devices down temporarily for them to stay put.
I got some tile samples and used double sided to secure smaller items to them. Flipped them over and put rubber feet on the bottom. They look nice and are heavy so everything stays put.

Did this for OSSC, some component to VGA adapters, and my controller adapters. Cost next to nothing. No cable changes needed.
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ldeveraux
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

thchardcore wrote:I got some tile samples and used double sided to secure smaller items to them. Flipped them over and put rubber feet on the bottom. They look nice and are heavy so everything stays put.

Did this for OSSC, some component to VGA adapters, and my controller adapters. Cost next to nothing. No cable changes needed.
Oh that's a great technique actually.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

vol.2 wrote:
The cable impedance is AC. That's the important figure because it's what constitutes your video signal.
Not only is it AC, but impedance consists of both a resistive and reactive (capacitive/inductive) component. You can't measure the reactance with common tools
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