Questions that do not deserve a thread

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
Revolver Ocelot
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

Thanks for the Infos Star. Then it is just as I thought. I have already assumed that both cables are of decent Quality and it is more a matter of personal taste which one I should buy.

Then it is a easy question. If I Need it now the cable from the foe is the best choice. If I can wait, the Retro gaming uk cable is a good choice as well.

They are both similar in Price, if I get the packerpunch cable, the Retro gaming cables uk Option is even more expensiv.

That brings to my next question. are the Standard cables from Retro gaming cables good enough or shall I get the packapunch Version?
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Revolver Ocelot wrote:Thanks for the Infos Star. Then it is just as I thought. I have already assumed that both cables are of decent Quality and it is more a matter of personal taste which one I should buy.

Then it is a easy question. If I Need it now the cable from the foe is the best choice. If I can wait, the Retro gaming uk cable is a good choice as well.

They are both similar in Price, if I get the packerpunch cable, the Retro gaming cables uk Option is even more expensiv.

That brings to my next question. are the Standard cables from Retro gaming cables good enough or shall I get the packapunch Version?
I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
Revolver Ocelot
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:Thanks for the Infos Star. Then it is just as I thought. I have already assumed that both cables are of decent Quality and it is more a matter of personal taste which one I should buy.

Then it is a easy question. If I Need it now the cable from the foe is the best choice. If I can wait, the Retro gaming uk cable is a good choice as well.

They are both similar in Price, if I get the packerpunch cable, the Retro gaming cables uk Option is even more expensiv.

That brings to my next question. are the Standard cables from Retro gaming cables good enough or shall I get the packapunch Version?
I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).
I see. Thanks for your opinion. I will use the cable on my Pansonic LCD TV with my Framemeister. On the FM the normal cables should be fine enought as well I suppose?
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Revolver Ocelot wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).
I see. Thanks for your opinion. I will use the cable on my Pansonic LCD TV with my Framemeister. On the FM the normal cables should be fine enought as well I suppose?
The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
Revolver Ocelot
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:I would argue that if you're using it on a CRT or going into an OSSC with adjustable low-pass filtering, you're fine with the regular cables (unless you're a real stickler for quality).
I see. Thanks for your opinion. I will use the cable on my Pansonic LCD TV with my Framemeister. On the FM the normal cables should be fine enought as well I suppose?
The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.
Not an expert on the Framemeister either. I am just trying to find out the right settings for it. In general noise is no problem. My Gamecube with RGB and and my Dreamcast with RGB offers a very nice Image. Just my cheap Saturn rgb cable has some noise in the Picture thats why i am looking for a update.
User avatar
FBX
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:18 am
Location: DFW area, Texas
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FBX »

bobrocks95 wrote:
The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.
The Framemeister as of the current firmware has 'shoddy' LPF that cannot be controlled. The major issue with this being Sega Saturn games that run in 352 H-res mode. Many Saturn consoles will show ugly jail bars on the Framemeister in this mode, wheres on the OSSC, you can set it to 9MHz video LPF (or simply Auto) and it completely removes the jail bars.

At any rate, I've got a question for Dreamcast experts:

The wiki for DC VGA mode claims it outputs in 720x480p, but the OS menu and my copy of Code Veronica both only show 640 active graphics. Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?

-FBX
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?
not really. I think there a few titles that use transition screens in full res. Just like the white DC bootscreen, which fills the full 720 px width.
User avatar
FBX
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:18 am
Location: DFW area, Texas
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FBX »

Fudoh wrote:
Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?
not really. I think there a few titles that use transition screens in full res. Just like the white DC bootscreen, which fills the full 720 px width.
I scoured the Internet and pretty much the consensus is there's no game that goes beyond 640. I needed to know this for my optimal timing work on the OSSC. Thanks!
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by BuckoA51 »

Does anyone know if there's an EDID minder/emulator for 4k capable gear that supports 60hz and HDR?
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
Revolver Ocelot
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Revolver Ocelot »

FBX wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
The Framemeister might show noise more easily? Or I thought in another thread I read FBX talking about it having forced low-pass filtering, which would make things fine? I'm not really the expert for the Framemeister.
The Framemeister as of the current firmware has 'shoddy' LPF that cannot be controlled. The major issue with this being Sega Saturn games that run in 352 H-res mode. Many Saturn consoles will show ugly jail bars on the Framemeister in this mode, wheres on the OSSC, you can set it to 9MHz video LPF (or simply Auto) and it completely removes the jail bars.

At any rate, I've got a question for Dreamcast experts:

The wiki for DC VGA mode claims it outputs in 720x480p, but the OS menu and my copy of Code Veronica both only show 640 active graphics. Are there any VGA DC games that actually go past 640 H-res?

-FBX

Thanks for the info. I was not aware that the Framemeister has this Problem with Sega Saturn. Would the packapunch cable help to minimise the problem is there nothing that can be done against it?
User avatar
orange808
Posts: 3196
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:43 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by orange808 »

BuckoA51 wrote:Does anyone know if there's an EDID minder/emulator for 4k capable gear that supports 60hz and HDR?
HDFury Integral is probably the best answer. The Linker and Vertex have scaling and I don't know if they degrade the video signal during passthrough.
We apologise for the inconvenience
GojiFan90
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:28 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by GojiFan90 »

I have a stock AV Famicom, and I plan to have it RGB modded in the future. For the time being, composite is the best I can get out of it which I will feed into my framemeister. My question is, would the standard Nintendo OEM AV cables be the best for a composite signal? Or are there better quality composite video cables out there for a NES/SNES/N64/GCN?
User avatar
Turom
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:15 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Turom »

Got a question about displaying Dreamcast 480p through Toro into a BVM-D14H1E (via BKM129X):

How do you handle the wrong 720x480 output to restore the correct aspect ratio? Even pushing the HSIZE to +31 isn't enough it seems. Do I need something of the likes of the Extron DVS204?
User avatar
Jademalo
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Jademalo »

Quick Extron switch question -

I've got a Crosspoint 300 1616. On the back, it has a series of switches for 75ohm and 510ohm sync.
According to the manual, it should be set to 75ohm for 75ohm outputs, and 510ohm for every other output. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm getting confused and doubting this.

Everything I read by both Voultar and RetroRGB seems to imply that you want 75ohm sync coming out the back of your console, or at the very least your cable. However, the Extron manual seems to imply that they want a TTL level sync coming from the input.

Can I get a bit of clarification on what I should be setting the switches to for a SNES, N64, and Mega Drive?
And would it also be possible to get clarification on the output level of sync signals from the Crosspoint?

Thanks!
jayde6
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:20 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by jayde6 »

Jademalo wrote:Quick Extron switch question -

I've got a Crosspoint 300 1616. On the back, it has a series of switches for 75ohm and 510ohm sync.
According to the manual, it should be set to 75ohm for 75ohm outputs, and 510ohm for every other output. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm getting confused and doubting this.
The switches are for changing high level non-TTL sync signals down to a range the Crosspoint likes.
Consoles are not going to be outputting that so go ahead and have them in the default 510ohm position.
Jademalo wrote: Everything I read by both Voultar and RetroRGB seems to imply that you want 75ohm sync coming out the back of your console, or at the very least your cable. However, the Extron manual seems to imply that they want a TTL level sync coming from the input.
It's because the Crosspoint devices weren't really designed for video game consoles, however when cabled correctly they happen to work really good for them.
Jademalo wrote: And would it also be possible to get clarification on the output level of sync signals from the Crosspoint?

Thanks!
The output level is going to be higher then you would want for most situations. The popular cable manufacturers have cables with the proper components in them specifically for the Crosspoints to get the sync level down to an acceptable level.

That said, if your going into a PVM, it might be able to handle the unmodified signal fine (check the manual for it). Also if you plan to use it as a Component video switcher you also don't need to worry about the sync level as it only applies to the sync outputs, not the RGB outputs.
User avatar
FBX
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:18 am
Location: DFW area, Texas
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FBX »

Revolver Ocelot wrote:

Thanks for the info. I was not aware that the Framemeister has this Problem with Sega Saturn. Would the packapunch cable help to minimise the problem is there nothing that can be done against it?
The problem is in the Saturn itself. It doesn't have internal video LPF for 352 and 704 modes (at least some Saturns don't anyway), and so these jail bars can even be seen on CRTs or hooking the console up to a display without a Framemeister. Since the OSSC's 9MHz Video LPF setting completely removes the jail bars, it sort of proves the point of it being the Saturn's lack of LPF for those modes.
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

Jademalo wrote:Quick Extron switch question -

I've got a Crosspoint 300 1616. On the back, it has a series of switches for 75ohm and 510ohm sync.
According to the manual, it should be set to 75ohm for 75ohm outputs, and 510ohm for every other output. However, the more I'm reading the more I'm getting confused and doubting this.

Everything I read by both Voultar and RetroRGB seems to imply that you want 75ohm sync coming out the back of your console, or at the very least your cable. However, the Extron manual seems to imply that they want a TTL level sync coming from the input.

Can I get a bit of clarification on what I should be setting the switches to for a SNES, N64, and Mega Drive?
And would it also be possible to get clarification on the output level of sync signals from the Crosspoint?

Thanks!
In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC, Framemeister, Shinybow SB-2840, or a RGB TV if you live in Europe (guessing here as I live in the states), you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line. That's it. You need this because the sync coming off the extron is 5vp-p, and those consumer-oriented devices are only safe to use with around 1vp-p and under. Your PVM, BVM, any other pro-type converter/transcoder/up/downscaler boxes (i.e. Extron, Kramer, etc.) are all fine with the higher level sync for the most point. Even YPbPr/Component coming off the Crosspoint is fine since only the H Sync and V Sync lines are raised up to that ;dangerous' 5vp-p level.

Here's a good article about this: https://www.snailtoothgaming.com/articl ... nc-output/
nmalinoski
Posts: 1974
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

Dochartaigh wrote:In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC... you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line.
Minor correction/clarification: AV3 on the OSSC (VGA/DE-15 port) requires TTL sync; it's only AV1 (SCART) that you would need to bring sync down to 1Vp-p with that resistor.

Now, you could very well connect the output of the CrossPoint directly to AV3 on the OSSC, but AV3 is intended for high-quality sources, like PCs, and has insufficient filtering for retro consoles.

The OSSC wiki specifically recommends AV1 and AV2 for retro consoles, as they have stronger low-pass filtering, so, if your CrossPoint is going to be primarily for retro consoles, it would be preferable to connect it to AV1 on the OSSC, with the composite sync signal attenuated with the 470Ω resistor.
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

Does anyone recognize this?

I've had 2 model 1 genesis' apart in the past week and found this thing inside one of them under the bottom RF shield

Never seen it before, pretty sure it's not meant to be in there. Even watched 3 youtube vids of console tear-downs and saw nothing of the sort

Image
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

nmalinoski wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC... you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line.
Minor correction/clarification: AV3 on the OSSC (VGA/DE-15 port) requires TTL sync; it's only AV1 (SCART) that you would need to bring sync down to 1Vp-p with that resistor.

Now, you could very well connect the output of the CrossPoint directly to AV3 on the OSSC, but AV3 is intended for high-quality sources, like PCs, and has insufficient filtering for retro consoles.

The OSSC wiki specifically recommends AV1 and AV2 for retro consoles, as they have stronger low-pass filtering, so, if your CrossPoint is going to be primarily for retro consoles, it would be preferable to connect it to AV1 on the OSSC, with the composite sync signal attenuated with the 470Ω resistor.
Yup, and all mine look dirty without the low pass filter which is why I use the SCART AV1 which needs a resistor ;) (it would be a lot easier and cheaper to use a simple BNC to VGA cable though! Wish that port had a LPF!).
iceman_0
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:29 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by iceman_0 »

I am thinkning of getting a Gamecube and wonder if it s worth considering one of the HDMI mods or is a neat RGB Scart cable in connection with the Framemeister good enough? I will get most likely a pal gamecube so most of the games do not offer 480p. And one the big advantages for the component or HDMi outputs should be the 480p ouput. But how well 576i or 480 i would look with HDMI. Is HDMI still worth considering or shall I just get a scart rgb cable for the Framemeister?
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Syntax »

maxtherabbit wrote:Does anyone recognize this?

I've had 2 model 1 genesis' apart in the past week and found this thing inside one of them under the bottom RF shield

Never seen it before, pretty sure it's not meant to be in there. Even watched 3 youtube vids of console tear-downs and saw nothing of the sort

Its the tab for the security screw on the back of the MD.
Look for the hole around the centre of the case and slot it in there, nothing else holds it in.
User avatar
Jademalo
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Jademalo »

Dochartaigh wrote:In a nutshell, if from your Crosspoint you run to something like an OSSC, Framemeister, Shinybow SB-2840, or a RGB TV if you live in Europe (guessing here as I live in the states), you want a 470Ω resistor on the sync line. That's it. You need this because the sync coming off the extron is 5vp-p, and those consumer-oriented devices are only safe to use with around 1vp-p and under. Your PVM, BVM, any other pro-type converter/transcoder/up/downscaler boxes (i.e. Extron, Kramer, etc.) are all fine with the higher level sync for the most point. Even YPbPr/Component coming off the Crosspoint is fine since only the H Sync and V Sync lines are raised up to that ;dangerous' 5vp-p level.

Here's a good article about this: https://www.snailtoothgaming.com/articl ... nc-output/
Thank you, that was an extremely interesting read. It definitely looks like I'm going to have to add some resistors to my BNC to SCART outputs from the Crosspoint. I had no idea that it boosted the sync to such high levels.

So my current setup is this. All consoles are feeding either RGBs or YPbPr into the Crosspoint. I then have three outputs;
  • A Sony BVM-20F1E
    An XRGB Mini
    An OSSC
According to the manual, the BVM can handle sync signals between "0.3 to 8 Vp-p". This is connected to the Crosspoint with a straight through BNC to BNC cable for all signal types - RGBs, YPbPr, Y/C, and Composite. I'm assuming this means it's absolutely fine with the output from the Crosspoint as it is now straight into the BVM.
The XRGB Mini and the OSSC are both connected using Retrogamingcables.co.uk's BNC to Male SCART cable. They're older ones without the directional switch, but they're wired for output. As far as I'm aware, these don't have the 470ohm resistor in them, so they'll need that to attenuate the sync line.

My biggest concern is I've been using this setup for years. I remember noticing snow when using the SNES through the Mini, and I'm wondering if this is related.
How much damage could this realistically have done to my Mini and OSSC? They seem to be fine, but I'm still pretty concerned.

Anyway, I've ordered myself a few 470ohm resistors and an actually usable soldering iron, hopefully that will let me sort it.
User avatar
eric90000
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:56 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by eric90000 »

Hey All,

I recently picked up a Sony PVM-14L4.

Does anyone know if this monitor needs 75ohm termination plugs on the RGBs outputs, or is it self terminating? I checked the manual but I'm not 100% sure.

Thanks!
Namingway_PL
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Namingway_PL »

All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.
User avatar
Jademalo
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Jademalo »

Damn, one of my Extron PSUs has died. Absolutely no idea why. Devices are fine since the other one works, but I'm not getting anything with one of them.

What's the go to extron replacement PSU in the UK/EU nowadays?
I know there's this one, but £40 is pretty steep.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

TME has the Mean Well at 27 EUR incl. tax. (EDIT: sorry, out of stock till late summer).
User avatar
Jademalo
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Jademalo »

Alright, ty! I'll keep my eye on it
No real rush, it's just for my Andora.
User avatar
eric90000
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:56 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by eric90000 »

Namingway_PL wrote:All PVM monitors have automatic termination, so there is no need for termination plugs. Only BVM monitors need them.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying!

On a related note....is there any way to connect a PVM output to a CRT SCART input? (I'm in Europe). If using a BNC > SCART cable, The RGBs output of the PVM wouldn't have the correct voltage on SCART pin 16 to make the CRT switch to RGB.

I saw Coury from MLiG has a Toshiba CRT daisy chained to his PVM, but maybe that's more straight forward as it's a TV with component inputs, rather than SCART?

EDIT: Rob from RetroGamingCables suggested wiring a DC power source into the SCART head at the TV end, to provide the power to pin 16 on the TV, therefore switching it to RGB mode. Any easier way?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

If using a BNC > SCART cable, The RGBs output of the PVM wouldn't have the correct voltage on SCART pin 16 to make the CRT switch to RGB.
If your TV can't be manually set to RGB (many Sony TVs can), then you can add a battery or a USB power supply to your connection cable.
Post Reply