Questions that do not deserve a thread

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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

It first came on the scene with PC video cards that had DVI support. They would scale the output to the native resolution of the LCD panel as per its EDID. However this was done in the TMDS transmitter chip IIRC not the GPU

The first of these cards were indeed contemporary with the original xbox, so it's possible the feature made it over, but I seriously doubt it
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TrantaLocked_
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by TrantaLocked_ »

What about when an OS is downscaling or upscaling images on a desktop, something that has surely existed since before the Xbox? Is that not something the OS is calling on the GPU to do or is the CPU calculating that before the image gets sent to the GPU? I suppose if the OS can do it maybe it could be with a kernel patch on the Xbox. Only reason I really care is for input lag reasons. I'm trying to pair the upcoming MakeMHz 1080i upscale feature to my Sony Trinitron which can do 1080i lagless if set correctly in the service menu, so it would kind of be a setback if the upscaling was even single-frame buffered which I'd really prefer not to have. At the least nearest neighbor should be pretty fast regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.
Guile
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

I'm trying to solve a problem of serious noise or interference when going from PS2 component > gbs-control > ossc. I've seen that the ossc AV3 does not have full lpf options so I was thinking of trying AV1 to see if it can filter the noise out.

What is the best way to connect the vga output from the gbs to the SCART AV1 on the ossc? From what I've seen, it would require going from RGBHV to RGBS?

It could also be a problem with the actual power outlets in the room. I tested it on an outlet closer to the ossc and the noise seemed to be gone. Any suggestions for dealing with that?
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Kez
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Kez »

The source of power-related interference can be pretty hard to pin down. How are you powering the GBS-C? I used to have wavy interference on mine but I got an Anker USB charger and now the image is super clean. You could try powering the devices from different outlets if that's an option.
nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

Guile wrote:What is the best way to connect the vga output from the gbs to the SCART AV1 on the ossc? From what I've seen, it would require going from RGBHV to RGBS?
You may not end up going this route if you can directly solve the interference issue, but you can use an Extron RGB interface to do so; just beware that SCART applications expect video-level sync, and VGA and pro AV gear (like the RGB interfaces) use 5V TTL sync, so you'll either need a BNC to SCART adapter that attenuates the sync line or an inline attenuator (Retro Access at least used to make these).
Guile
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

I was able to mostly solve the interference noise problem. I applied copper tape to the traces on the bottom of the gbs-c which eliminated about 90% of the noisy horizontal lines but the biggest one was still barely visible. So I connected it to an rgb interface and that totally got rid of the last band.

I still have shimmering when the image is still but it is also heavily reduced, not visible in motion, and mostly acceptable to me now. I'll look into that more.

Of course this just led to another issue. If I plug in the rgb interface it will often not seem to pick up the signal unless I power it on and off a few times. I'm using component in and component out and its a 109xi. Is there some way to get it to pick up the signal without toggling the power?
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Would a cheap RGB interface to convert from RGsB to RGBHV like an Extron 160xi or 192v .......i.e. can the RGB signals be passed through an Extron without processing or degradation?
yes and yes.

But the method to switching from 15 to 31khz widely varies from game to game, so to fly "blind" during the boot up isn't easy, if you don't want to memorize the exact procedure for every single game you want to try.
atohmdiy
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by atohmdiy »

Hello,
Finally got my vision master pro 454. I have it for a week or so. First i thought it doesn't work. I bought a Delock 62967 as Fudoh advice, and also a simple lindy hdmi to vga. Both were defective :roll: When i plug the lindy the image started to jump between the two monitors. With the delock nothing happens at all when i plugged it, i tried with windows, linux, two different vga monitor (another one was a lcd), two graphic card... Lindy sent me a new one that is working fine, delock is on its way for RMA.

Anyway, a chance i got another dac that i knew was working. The monitor was finally working, but i quickly discover ot emit an unpleasant smell. Also the image is dark, very dark. I put the contrast and luminosity at 100, gamma at 50, and some game are dark as hell.
Some game are playable but in some extreme case it's unplayable, for example i try sky of arcadia with dolphin, you do not see a thing. I tried mother russia bleed on my switch and it's the same, you don't see the floor, it's like your character is moving in the dark. I manage to make it better by increasing the gamma in the option to 120, but it still far too dark.

I just open the monitor today to see if i don't see any problem, like a leaking cap. Don't see a thing, maybe a cap that begin to round off a little but it's slight. After some hour of utilization it seems the unpleasant smell is far less pronounce, the seller told me the monitor wasn't use the last four years, it's likely some dust that emit this smell when the monitor starts heating.
strayan
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by strayan »

ross wrote:I'm looking to hook my PS2 up to a PC CRT exclusively for (the few) 480p titles on there. Would prefer to keep an analogue signal path from console to monitor aside from any sync processing. Would a cheap RGB interface to convert from RGsB to RGBHV like an Extron 160xi or 192v be a better buy than a YPbPr/RGB transcoder, i.e. can the RGB signals be passed through an Extron without processing or degradation?
Have you checked to see whether your monitor accepts RGsB already?
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Is there a good way to play light gun games on a PC?

I'm not really a fan of the Wiimote method.
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

I tried mother russia bleed on my switch and it's the same, you don't see the floor
sounds if you're getting black crush. Switch between full and limited range RGB ouput on the PC side to see if this makes a difference. Many of the DACs require one specific setting and don't play well with the other.
ldeveraux
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

vol.2 wrote:Is there a good way to play light gun games on a PC?

I'm not really a fan of the Wiimote method.
https://www.sindenlightgun.com/
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Thanks

I think I ran into that on youtube at some point, but I wasn't sure if it is any good. Has anyone here actually used one of them?
ldeveraux
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

vol.2 wrote:
Thanks

I think I ran into that on youtube at some point, but I wasn't sure if it is any good. Has anyone here actually used one of them?
I have 2 of them! I haven't gone deep dive into it, but it's constantly in development and it's just a USB connection. I tested the gun out with their software and it worked even without making the monitor adjustments they ask to. I didn't try it in a game, but it worked in test. They have a pretty active discord too!
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

yes, I have. Fantastic. I don't have on of my own yet, but a friend got one from an earlier production batch and unfortunately we did run the setup at 1080p, which causes the camera fps drop down to something under 30 the this causes a hint of lag. Later on we learned that running in 720p instead will increase the camera fps to 60 and it feels much snappier. This I couldn't try myself yet, but the original experience was great already and my friend's claiming that dropping down to 720p does indeed feel flawless.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Fudoh wrote:yes, I have. Fantastic. I don't have on of my own yet, but a friend got one from an earlier production batch and unfortunately we did run the setup at 1080p, which causes the camera fps drop down to something under 30 the this causes a hint of lag. Later on we learned that running in 720p instead will increase the camera fps to 60 and it feels much snappier. This I couldn't try myself yet, but the original experience was great already and my friend's claiming that dropping down to 720p does indeed feel flawless.
Is that 720p on the actual camera inside the lightgun, or were you having to output software to the monitor at 720p?
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

That's actually a really important point. I'm not sure I would go for it if I was unable to run my projector at it's native resolution.
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

I think at this moment the resolutions are locked, so PC output res = cam resolution (so you're indeed lowering your output resolution).

What games do you want to play? You can certainly leave the graphics card scaling enabled and I don't see how a lower resolution would hurt anything natively running in 240p or 480p.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Fudoh wrote:I think at this moment the resolutions are locked, so PC output res = cam resolution (so you're indeed lowering your output resolution).

What games do you want to play? You can certainly leave the graphics card scaling enabled and I don't see how a lower resolution would hurt anything natively running in 240p or 480p.
GPU scaling should be fine, didn't think about that- I was most interested in console interfacing with the Sinden myself so I'll have to see how that's going these days, I remember at the start it was just PS1 and I think involved a Raspberry Pi.
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atohmdiy
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by atohmdiy »

Fudoh wrote:
I tried mother russia bleed on my switch and it's the same, you don't see the floor
sounds if you're getting black crush. Switch between full and limited range RGB ouput on the PC side to see if this makes a difference. Many of the DACs require one specific setting and don't play well with the other.
Problem is, in the case of sky of arcadia, i try it with a computer with a r5 230 and it's vga out. No external dac here. For the nintendo switch, i try two dac, also try the limited range of rgb and the problem is still here. Also i know that one of these dac i used can do full range rgb as i have no problem with my other crt.
But in the case of the other crt, it's a 20f1e and as it's 240p, i downscaled with a gbs, and the gbs have an automatic brightness boost function if i remember.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by atohmdiy »

I didn't try much the higher res, but with lindy dac it recognize the monitor as iiyama hm903D/DT. I tried 1600 x 1200 and the image is very slobbery, there is two small line in 1/4 and 3/4 and some distortion in the top. Also the image is like zooming in and out slightly.

I made two photos with my phone to show you. One is with my lcd. As you can see the color of the window is a lot darker.

Image

Image
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

Fudoh wrote:I think at this moment the resolutions are locked, so PC output res = cam resolution (so you're indeed lowering your output resolution).

What games do you want to play? You can certainly leave the graphics card scaling enabled and I don't see how a lower resolution would hurt anything natively running in 240p or 480p.
I was thinking about both emulator stuff via the PC, in which case I guess GPU scaling does it, but I'm not sure how retroarch interacts with the system-wide GPU scaling. As long as that is possible to enact, I should be fine with that.

Unfortunately, I also would like to use it on Raspberry Pi, so it sounds like that would not be such a pleasant experience.

Still though, it's probably enough to get if I can use it on a PC. I would be playing stuff like House of the Dead and Time Crisis; you know, usual light gun stuff.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

Is there still someone making quality S-video cables for consoles?

I know Retro Access made some for a while but I don't see any on their site now...
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

FinalBaton wrote:Is there still someone making quality S-video cables for consoles?

I know Retro Access made some for a while but I don't see any on their site now...
Which system are you looking for? Might be best to just buy the official cable.
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FinalBaton
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

vol.2 wrote:Which system are you looking for? Might be best to just buy the official cable.
Snes for the moment. but I might need PS1, saturn and dreamcast.
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nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

ross wrote:I'm looking to hook my PS2 up to a PC CRT exclusively for (the few) 480p titles on there. Would prefer to keep an analogue signal path from console to monitor aside from any sync processing. Would a cheap RGB interface to convert from RGsB to RGBHV like an Extron 160xi or 192v be a better buy than a YPbPr/RGB transcoder, i.e. can the RGB signals be passed through an Extron without processing or degradation?
Yes, but my understanding is that Extron's RGB interfaces require clean composite sync, which unmodded PS2s do not provide. You'll need something like Ultimarc's PS2/PS3 cable, which has a built-in sync stripper and provides a DE-15 connector, which you should be able to directly connect to with RGB interfaces.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

FinalBaton wrote: Snes for the moment. but I might need PS1, saturn and dreamcast.
Yeah, I would just go with an official cables. PS is easy because they are the same all the way down to PS3 so lots of high quality options. I'm not familiar with the SEGA stuff, but I imagine it's similar.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

nmalinoski wrote:
ross wrote:I'm looking to hook my PS2 up to a PC CRT exclusively for (the few) 480p titles on there. Would prefer to keep an analogue signal path from console to monitor aside from any sync processing. Would a cheap RGB interface to convert from RGsB to RGBHV like an Extron 160xi or 192v be a better buy than a YPbPr/RGB transcoder, i.e. can the RGB signals be passed through an Extron without processing or degradation?
Yes, but my understanding is that Extron's RGB interfaces require clean composite sync, which unmodded PS2s do not provide. You'll need something like Ultimarc's PS2/PS3 cable, which has a built-in sync stripper and provides a DE-15 connector, which you should be able to directly connect to with RGB interfaces.
PS dongle on the bottom - sync stripper inside, can output 15kHz RGBS or RGBHV
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bobrocks95
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

So, what's the actual recommended Dreamcast VGA solution these days? I'm having trouble getting OSSC settings right, and confirmed now that mine has clipping on bright colors like most Dreamcast VGA outputs, so I might want to replace my box.

BeharBros is a no-go, I don't use SCART for RGC cables, I've tried either the Retrobit or Tomee straight cables a long time ago and they were hot garbage, and Retro-Access doesn't offer a Dreamcast connector on the custom DSUB cable builder.

What else is out there?
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Guspaz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guspaz »

You can find a bunch of the period-specific VGA boxes here:

https://segaretro.org/Dreamcast_third-p ... ccessories

Personally I'd just wait for the HDRV cables or use an RGC/RAC cable. Wire the RGC/RAC cable up to a DSUB if you really must use that. You're encountering the downside of using a connector standard that the rest of the community has not standardized on.
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