Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Fudoh]

we're not talking real time saves here, but standard battery/sram saves that original games would support as well.

[Dochartaigh]

we're not talking real time saves here, but standard battery/sram saves that original games would support as well.

Oh, that makes a difference then. Does the v3 let you save whenever you want? (like my EverDrive N8/NES one does on most games?)

[nmalinoski]

we're not talking real time saves here, but standard battery/sram saves that original games would support as well.

Oh, that makes a difference then. Does the v3 let you save whenever you want? (like my EverDrive N8/NES one does on most games?)

As far as I know, the ED64 does not support save states; just the regular cartridge saves as Fudoh said.

[729]

Has anyone recapped a 20L5 before, and if so how exactly do I get a "cap kit" together for this model? Does anyone have a personal list, documentation or a shopping cart I could work with to recap?

There's not much information on what I specifically need aside from just, "Read the service manual" or "Ask Savon-Pat". I genuinely do not know what I'm supposed to be getting.

[orange808]

What does everyone think of the the Retrotink x2 as a 240p decoder for the OSSC?

For svideo, it's nice enough, but I have been disappointed with the composite output and the loss of sync/HDMI handshake delays over composite.

The Extron CD 400 and XRGB-1 don't lose sync and need HDMI handshake time during some transitions. The loss of sync is double frustrating because the Retrotink needs time to handshake with the DAC, and the OSSC needs time to handshake with the switch, and the switch has to handshake with the display. It's a jarring delay. SMB triggers loss of sync during transitions the Atari also loses sync at black screens (over composite).

I rate the comb filter of the Retrotink x2 with the DVDO. The XRGB-1 and CD 400 look better to my eyes.

Definitely a mixed bag for me. Svideo is great, composite not so much.

Edit: Power cycling the device and trying again seems to have gotten rid of the odd sync drops for now, but the composite output remains the same quality: a little blurry.

Please excuse cell photos, but you can see what I'm talking about.

CRT TV (direct composite)

Spoiler

Retrotink 2x 240p > HDFury Nano > OSSC linex5
Yes, it's in focus!

Spoiler

XRGB-1 > OSSC linex5

Spoiler

Retrotink 2x
Yes, it's in focus!

Spoiler

XRGB-1

Spoiler

Is anybody seeing this in their setups?

[paulb_nl]

For svideo, it's nice enough, but I have been disappointed with the composite output and the loss of sync/HDMI handshake delays over composite.

Looking at Mario's pants there is some interpolation going on. Where it should go from white to black it goes white-grey-black. Is the HD Fury doing that?

I have seen some kind of edge enhancement in RetroRGB's RetroTink2x video but I don't know if that was caused by his capture setup or not.

BTW The RetroTink Batman photo is definitely not in focus. The pixel grid of your display is not visible.

[Fudoh]

still waiting for the 2x to arrive.

All I had to go by this far was Mike's capture of PS1 through composite (pretty static content, Lunar I think) and that looked quite nice.

In the end I'm wondering how well a comb filter CAN perform on low-res video game material. 10 to 15 years ago, when comb filters were still in demand and people were discussing them, even the ones with the highest praise (e.g. the Entech ones) performed pretty poor on gaming material, especially the NES.

Overall it might be question of how far you have to blur the image and how strong to overlay scanlines to mask most of the artfacts.

[FinalBaton]

Thank god for RGB mods

Although from time to time I still play my stock NES on my consumer Sony crt(KV-25XBR). That one's got a pretty crazy NTSC decoder chip, the color palette I get from it for the NES is unlike any other display I've seen, I very much enjoy it

I remember seeing your thoughts/pics on the Entech on other AV sites Fudoh. Back when Tim Worthington's awesome solution for the NES wasn't available to the public yet. Back when these things were somewhat in demand. The improvment is marginal, as you've just said. I remember seeing two comparison pics on a crt, one with the Entech and one witout, and saying "that's it???". And that's with the best transcoder...

[orange808]

For svideo, it's nice enough, but I have been disappointed with the composite output and the loss of sync/HDMI handshake delays over composite.

Looking at Mario's pants there is some interpolation going on. Where it should go from white to black it goes white-grey-black. Is the HD Fury doing that?

I have seen some kind of edge enhancement in RetroRGB's RetroTink2x video but I don't know if that was caused by his capture setup or not.

BTW The RetroTink Batman photo is definitely not in focus. The pixel grid of your display is not visible.

The 240p pass through doesn't have a filter option.

It really is that blurry. Could also be the 4:2:2 sampling, but that really shouldn't be an issue with composite.

[ZellSF]

I got my Retrotink 2X, but too lazy to play with it much. Any mode above 2x on the OSSC made it seem like the sample rate needed to be tweaked though. 480pX2 looked the best on s-video, better than 240pX3 or 240pX5 and overall looked pretty good. But composite... so much noise, I'm not sure it's possible to get a that bad signal to look good regardless of settings.

[paulb_nl]

It really is that blurry. Could also be the 4:2:2 sampling, but that really shouldn't be an issue with composite.

White to black is not affected by Chroma subsampling. So either the Retrotink is causing it or the HD Fury. Did you try the RetroTink 2x directly connected to your display?

[orange808]

It really is that blurry. Could also be the 4:2:2 sampling, but that really shouldn't be an issue with composite.

White to black is not affected by Chroma subsampling. So either the Retrotink is causing it or the HD Fury. Did you try the RetroTink 2x directly connected to your display?

The only HDMI display I own that accepts 240p is my Sony LCD.

The problem is still there, but more subtle. I suspect the Sony is filtering the image as well.

I can't get a picture with the cell phone to capture the effect properly on the Sony--while the monitor doesnt try to handle noise at all. To be fair, the effect looked worse than it is in person in the photo above, but the blurry appearance is real. (So, my lousy capture method isn't great for the conversation.)

My monitor has a DB15, so I also chained the XRGB-1 through the OSSC out back through the HDFury DAC and into the monitor--and the results are the same. I don't see the subtle artifacts and blurriness I see from the Retrotink.

I think the Retrotink may be averaging and smoothing pixels and creating that ringing halo effect on the black pixels.

Overall, everything out of the Retrotink is a little less sharp than the XRGB-1 output--and that extends to svideo as well. In person, the issue is sharpness, not ringing or halos.

I'm looking forward to Fudoh's impressions, as he is much more knowledgeable about these things than I am.

[nmalinoski]

I hope it's not lost on people that, when the RetroTINK 2X reaches general availability, it'll be the first readily-available device since the Framemeister that will let people use composite, S-Video, and SD YPbPr on modern TVs, at less than a third of the price, and it'll be significantly easier to operate.

It'll be significantly useful for those who don't have one of those unicorn transcoders, RGB decoders, or scalers and still wants to play their composite and S-Video consoles in lieu of RGB/YPbPr/HDMI mods.

[ZellSF]

Of course, it'll be my first recommendation when people ask what to buy to connect their retro consoles to their TV. S-Video or component, it looks great. Composite, not so much, but considering how many TVs lag while deinterlacing still preferable to direct TV connection.

That doesn't prevent us from discussing more use cases for it though.

[Dochartaigh]

It'll be significantly useful for those who don't have one of those unicorn transcoders, RGB decoders, or scalers and still wants to play their composite and S-Video consoles in lieu of RGB/YPbPr/HDMI mods.

Kramer FC-4044's show up on eBay pretty frequently for around $100. Those will take Composite and S-Video and output RGBS or YPbPr (maybe RGsB as well, I forget). I did need to replace 2x caps on mine but it was perfect after that. I use it for N64 (S-Video), GameCube (S-Video), and my TG16 (with a 5 minute Composite no-solder mod) while I was waiting for my SSDS3 to arrive. Couldn't be happier with it and it lets me run RGBS to everything I want (my CRT BVM's and PVM's, or OSSC and such).

[ZellSF]

To a causual user, setting up automated eBay searches and replacing caps is pretty much hunting for unicorns. Also pretty useless unicorns if they're 100$ each as causual users still need a linedoubler. The Retrotink 2X is 100$ and will do everything.

[nmalinoski]

It'll be significantly useful for those who don't have one of those unicorn transcoders, RGB decoders, or scalers and still wants to play their composite and S-Video consoles in lieu of RGB/YPbPr/HDMI mods.

Kramer FC-4044's show up on eBay pretty frequently for around $100. Those will take Composite and S-Video and output RGBS or YPbPr (maybe RGsB as well, I forget). I did need to replace 2x caps on mine but it was perfect after that. I use it for N64 (S-Video), GameCube (S-Video), and my TG16 (with a 5 minute Composite no-solder mod) while I was waiting for my SSDS3 to arrive. Couldn't be happier with it and it lets me run RGBS to everything I want (my CRT BVM's and PVM's, or OSSC and such).

True. I have an FC-4044. It's great; it does a straight transcode, won't screw with 240p, and it works well in conjunction with my OSSC. Like ZellSF said, you still need a line-doubler. An OSSC--any other analogue AV line doublers, like the XRGB-1/2, are also unicorns--combined with the $100 for the 4044, means you're up to Framemeister money, and there's the possibility that it will need caps replaced.

Sure, we're okay with that, but there's a lot of people who aren't going to want to do any soldering or cap replacement, nor are they going to want to make accommodations for rackmount equipment, nor are they going to want to pay the $250 plus shipping both ways to get Kramer to repair it (this is what I was quoted to get my busted FC-4040 repaired) on top of whatever they need to pay for a line doubler. I could get two RT2Ks for that money (assuming they're still $100), and have enough left over for liquor and snacks.

And yes, those of us who already have a line doubler (be it an OSSC or one of the XRGBs) would likely be okay with spending another $100 to add composite and S-Video compatibility to our setups, but, for the same price as the FC-4044, the RT2K is new, significantly smaller, can take SD YPbPr, outputs HDMI (which is more relevant these days than analogue output) but can be easily paired with an HDMI to VGA converter without adding lag, has an LPF built-in (the FC-4044 doesn't), and, importantly, is more versatile, in that it can be used either in conjunction with another line doubler (has a passthrough mode) or on its own.

For now, the only reason I'm not looking to pick up an RT2K is because I already have an FC-4040 paired with an OSSC for S-Video and composite duties, but I may trade up to the RT2K at some point to reduce my power consumption (I've been thinking about getting some USB->barrel plug cables and powering a bunch of 5V devices from a USB hub), to save some space on my AV stand, and so I have the option of playing one of my non-modded consoles on a different TV in my house without uprooting my entire AV setup or spending Wireless HDMI money.

[FinalBaton]

Agreed that RetroTINK is gonna be conveniant for a lot of people. Looks like it will have a pretty big market

[Dochartaigh]

have enough left over for liquor and snacks.

Totally with you nmalinoski, especially about liquor and snacks

I guess the greatest differentiator is if they also have a 15khz CRT integrated into their setup (which EVERYBODY should have at least one nice CRT for light gun use! -- no excuses!). It would be awesome if the RetroTINK 2x could take 240p S-Video in, then output 240p RGBS or YPbPr (guess it would have to be through a HDMI to VGA dongle like you mention, then a breakout to BNC or RCA's) but I'm pretty sure things don't work like that. If not, then the Kramer (and yes, it's old like most of these devices which is a detriment) still has a legs up for us people who game on both CRT's and big old flatscreens (which I'm highly adamant everybody should have both in a proper retro gaming setup).

Anyway, I totally agree that the RetroTINK 2x has a ton going for it, with many benefits to some people, but it just doesn't personally fit into my setup and how I like to run things on both CRT's and my flatscreen.



On a sidenote (going in the totally opposite direction), I've been looking for a proper RGBS to Composite and S-Video box. Anybody have any suggestions of one which is CURRENTLY available? I'm talking one with all the connectors already on it, and a power supply and such. I already have the Tindie/low_budget bare-board one (which I'll probably never get around to making a box for it and adding proper connectors and a power supply), I know there's the J-Rok which needs the same/similar things added to it as the low_budget, there's a Kramer I think which I haven't seen on eBay for well over a year, and the Shinybow SB-3682 one is discontinued everywhere (well, I found one in Australia but they won't take payment from, or ship to somebody not in Australia).

[Steamflogger Boss]

It'll be significantly useful for those who don't have one of those unicorn transcoders, RGB decoders, or scalers and still wants to play their composite and S-Video consoles in lieu of RGB/YPbPr/HDMI mods.

Kramer FC-4044's show up on eBay pretty frequently for around $100. Those will take Composite and S-Video and output RGBS or YPbPr (maybe RGsB as well, I forget). I did need to replace 2x caps on mine but it was perfect after that. I use it for N64 (S-Video), GameCube (S-Video), and my TG16 (with a 5 minute Composite no-solder mod) while I was waiting for my SSDS3 to arrive. Couldn't be happier with it and it lets me run RGBS to everything I want (my CRT BVM's and PVM's, or OSSC and such).

True. I have an FC-4044. It's great; it does a straight transcode, won't screw with 240p, and it works well in conjunction with my OSSC. Like ZellSF said, you still need a line-doubler. An OSSC--any other analogue AV line doublers, like the XRGB-1/2, are also unicorns--combined with the $100 for the 4044, means you're up to Framemeister money, and there's the possibility that it will need caps replaced.

Sure, we're okay with that, but there's a lot of people who aren't going to want to do any soldering or cap replacement, nor are they going to want to make accommodations for rackmount equipment, nor are they going to want to pay the $250 plus shipping both ways to get Kramer to repair it (this is what I was quoted to get my busted FC-4040 repaired) on top of whatever they need to pay for a line doubler. I could get two RT2Ks for that money (assuming they're still $100), and have enough left over for liquor and snacks.

And yes, those of us who already have a line doubler (be it an OSSC or one of the XRGBs) would likely be okay with spending another $100 to add composite and S-Video compatibility to our setups, but, for the same price as the FC-4044, the RT2K is new, significantly smaller, can take SD YPbPr, outputs HDMI (which is more relevant these days than analogue output) but can be easily paired with an HDMI to VGA converter without adding lag, has an LPF built-in (the FC-4044 doesn't), and, importantly, is more versatile, in that it can be used either in conjunction with another line doubler (has a passthrough mode) or on its own.

For now, the only reason I'm not looking to pick up an RT2K is because I already have an FC-4040 paired with an OSSC for S-Video and composite duties, but I may trade up to the RT2K at some point to reduce my power consumption (I've been thinking about getting some USB->barrel plug cables and powering a bunch of 5V devices from a USB hub), to save some space on my AV stand, and so I have the option of playing one of my non-modded consoles on a different TV in my house without uprooting my entire AV setup or spending Wireless HDMI money.

I agree with this but just wanted to say that a simple cap replacement can be done by any av repairman worth their salt. Unless you don't have any remotely close, I can't imagine sending in to Kramer is a better option.

[orange808]

On a sidenote (going in the totally opposite direction), I've been looking for a proper RGBS to Composite and S-Video box. Anybody have any suggestions of one which is CURRENTLY available? I'm talking one with all the connectors already on it, and a power supply and such. I already have the Tindie/low_budget bare-board one (which I'll probably never get around to making a box for it and adding proper connectors and a power supply), I know there's the J-Rok which needs the same/similar things added to it as the low_budget, there's a Kramer I think which I haven't seen on eBay for well over a year, and the Shinybow SB-3682 one is discontinued everywhere (well, I found one in Australia but they won't take payment from, or ship to somebody not in Australia).

I think the alibaba C Box-Jamma Box supergun accepts and outputs a few different formats.

[SamIAm]

Picked up an Extron Crosspoint. Apparently someone thought he didn't have time to take the cables off the back one-by-one and instead decided to clip them.



They were all good quality, properly shielded Canare cables, too. Such a shame.

Is there anything I can do with all of these decapitated male BNC heads? There have got to be around 50 of them.

[Dochartaigh]

I think the alibaba C Box-Jamma Box supergun accepts and outputs a few different formats.

Thanks, but if I'm looking at the right one that's a bare board type as well (looking for something more in-line with the rest of the equipment in my rack where I don't have to like rig up a CPU power supply to power it and such).

[orange808]

I think the alibaba C Box-Jamma Box supergun accepts and outputs a few different formats.

Thanks, but if I'm looking at the right one that's a bare board type as well (looking for something more in-line with the rest of the equipment in my rack where I don't have to like rig up a CPU power supply to power it and such).

It's not really a bare board. It's a supergun in a glass case with nice ports mounted. RGBS input (or output) is handled on RCA plugs, SCART, or using the JAMMA port; there are switches to toggle the RGBS behavior. It plugs into a nice power supply that comes with it. Probably the same power supply used on the C Box console Neo Geo MVS.

The power supply is very similar to what you would use to plug in a laptop. Nothing exotic at all. All sides are enclosed. It's not the glass sandwich design you often find. It's enclosed.

Output can be RGBS, component, composite, or svideo. (Does not accept component, composite, or svideo input.) Just tested mine and it works fine.


SCART in and composite out

Spoiler

[Dochartaigh]

It's not really a bare board. It's a supergun in a glass case with nice ports mounted.

Cool. Can you please line me to where you got yours? Only one I found was a bare board with a CPU-style (ATX?) power supply.

If it's not too much this might actually get me to buy a jamma-compatible arcade board at some point too! Thanks.

[orange808]

It's not really a bare board. It's a supergun in a glass case with nice ports mounted.

Cool. Can you please line me to where you got yours? Only one I found was a bare board with a CPU-style (ATX?) power supply.

If it's not too much this might actually get me to buy a jamma-compatible arcade board at some point too! Thanks.

Sure. You'll have to search the store to see if they're in stock. The supergun is still a good deal. I think it cost me about $140 total to buy the supergun and the power supply from Amazon, but the prices at the aliexpress store seem to keep increasing. (The "cheap" console MVS is now $218 and the inexpensive shipping option is gone. The MVS now costs $270 shipped to me in the states. Hopefully, the supergun will stay cheap.)

Here's the AliExpress store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/607318

Here's the power supply:
https://www.amazon.com/KNACRO-100-240V- ... B06Y2QZB2T

Keep in mind that this arrives as a component, svideo, or composite "safe output" machine. The voltages for RGBS output are reported to be unsafe. They are (probably) not attenuated properly and you shouldn't use the SCART or RGBS RCA outputs without some testing and (probably) mod work.

Component, svideo, and composite output should be fine out of the box.

[airco]

Does anyone who has experience with the manual Bandridge SCART switches know how the front panel RCA audio inputs work? I have an OSSC 1.5, so I need to pass audio through SCART when using component/VGA inputs and I haven't seen any other ways to inject it besides taking up a whole SCART slot on a switch with an RCA adapter. Does the front input inject audio into SCART output? Does it only do so when AV1 is selected? Can I use the SCART AV1 for a separate system as long as I don't use both the SCART and RCA inputs at the same time? Is there any difference in audio quality? Does the OSSC recognize audio-only SCART signals when using other inputs?

[Lawfer]

Picked up an Extron Crosspoint. Apparently someone thought he didn't have time to take the cables off the back one-by-one and instead decided to clip them.



They were all good quality, properly shielded Canare cables, too. Such a shame.

Is there anything I can do with all of these decapitated male BNC heads? There have got to be around 50 of them.

You might be able to salvage them and sell the heads on ebay, Canare connectors are good.

[andykara2003]

Bit of an odd question I know, but does anyone know whether Wii games run slower at 576i? I realise the refresh rate on the TV will be 50Hz, but do the games actually play at a slower speed?

[Fudoh]

they're usually adjusted to compensate for the lower refresh rate. Can't say though if that's true for every single Wii title, but it should be for most of them.