Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Gunstar]

@VEGETA Thanks, I've ordered some, I think the stock SNES one is single gauge anyway.

@Odolwa

What does 15-bit color mode do?

It removes the two LSBs of each color channel and outputs a zero instead. Hence, you just have 5 bits for each color left (15bit in total) instead of 7 bits.
As far as I know, the N64 uses these bits to introduce a bit of noise over the picture. This mode removes this noise.
(I'm not 100% sure as I cannot find the reference where I've read this anymore. So just try it out...)

[bobrocks95]

@VEGETA Thanks, I've ordered some, I think the stock SNES one is single gauge anyway.

@Odolwa

What does 15-bit color mode do?

It removes the two LSBs of each color channel and outputs a zero instead. Hence, you just have 5 bits for each color left (15bit in total) instead of 7 bits.
As far as I know, the N64 uses these bits to introduce a bit of noise over the picture. This mode removes this noise.
(I'm not 100% sure as I cannot find the reference where I've read this anymore. So just try it out...)

For nearly every game I've tried it with, they were using the 2 LSBs on the color channels, so you got banding/lower precision with the 15-bit color mode on. I'd love to hear which titles it improves but I haven't seen anyone mention any specific ones. All in all if you have to wire it up manually you can probably skip it.

[Gunstar]

For nearly every game I've tried it with, they were using the 2 LSBs on the color channels, so you got banding/lower precision with the 15-bit color mode on. I'd love to hear which titles it improves but I haven't seen anyone mention any specific ones. All in all if you have to wire it up manually you can probably skip it.

I think I read Star Fox 64 is one game that benefits from it. Maybe F-Zero X too? I don't have that feature hooked up so I can't test it out, unfortunately

[bobrocks95]

For nearly every game I've tried it with, they were using the 2 LSBs on the color channels, so you got banding/lower precision with the 15-bit color mode on. I'd love to hear which titles it improves but I haven't seen anyone mention any specific ones. All in all if you have to wire it up manually you can probably skip it.

I think I read Star Fox 64 is one game that benefits from it. Maybe F-Zero X too? I don't have that feature hooked up so I can't test it out, unfortunately

I can nab some screenshots for Star Fox, don't have F-Zero unfortunately.

[kitty666cats]

Anyone here used one of those ~$50 Monoprice (other brands sell it as well) HDMI to HDMI 1080p/720p/4K30/4K60 up+down scalers?

[bobrocks95]

I've got an issue with a DB-15 connector I'm mounting for an arcade stick project- ground only seems to be working on the screws and isn't properly connected to the shielding around the plug.

https://ibb.co/BP1FXWd
https://ibb.co/swj8Sjw

I figure either I'm mounting it incorrectly and the shield needs to be on the outside, or more likely this is typical shoddy Chinese manufacturing (whole thing was like $2).

The metal plating for the cable shielding doesn't have threads for the 4-40 jackscrews, so as far as I can tell, when the whole thing is mounted, they are floating right smack in the middle of the metal piece while the weight is held by the screw terminal/connector, so the shielding doesn't actually contact the jackscrews anymore (which are what's tied to PCB ground).

Hopefully this picture shows what I mean by that: https://ibb.co/tPhbNYV

So are those normally threaded, or at least tight around the jackscrews? No way panel mounting a D-Sub connector suddenly makes the plug shielding not connected to ground.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm playing PS2 games on my slim console on a fairly new flatscreen TV with only HDMI inputs. I suspect the cheap PS2 HDMI cable I got from Amazon may be having issues (can't justify investing in something pricy like a high end upscaler yet), or it may be the "smart HDMI control" options on the TV are interfering somehow and need to be turned off, but has anyone else had this issue before?

What's happening is about every 15 minutes the screen will go completely black and audio will cut off for 2-3 seconds, then come back. No message on the TV, and the PS2 keeps running while it's black (i.e. it's not a fault of the PS2 console or the game, stuff keeps going while the video and audio cut out). It's clear it's either a cable or a TV issue, have to narrow down which, but has anyone else heard of this happening before? Just curious.

[orange808]

I'm playing PS2 games on my slim console on a fairly new flatscreen TV with only HDMI inputs. I suspect the cheap PS2 HDMI cable I got from Amazon may be having issues (can't justify investing in something pricy like a high end upscaler yet), or it may be the "smart HDMI control" options on the TV are interfering somehow and need to be turned off, but has anyone else had this issue before?

What's happening is about every 15 minutes the screen will go completely black and audio will cut off for 2-3 seconds, then come back. No message on the TV, and the PS2 keeps running while it's black (i.e. it's not a fault of the PS2 console or the game, stuff keeps going while the video and audio cut out). It's clear it's either a cable or a TV issue, have to narrow down which, but has anyone else heard of this happening before? Just curious.

Random drops only happen to me when an HDMI cord goes bad or when a run is too long, but I admit I only use the expensive upscalers.

When something acts up, I usually check the power supply situation first. Does the cable have an external USB cord or it relying on the television to send juice through the HDMI cable? Is there anything wired between the console and the television?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It was this fairly cheap cable (USB powered using a power bar I already had that has quality USB charging ports, plugs in the PS2 to the TV directly):

https://www.amazon.com/Playstation-Cons ... 07MYVF61Y/

The thing is I remember I'd used it connected to another monitor some time without issue, so maybe it decided to act up coincidentally around the same time as getting a TV upgrade. I'm gambling with another one that's a more generic RGB to HDMI adapter, and if that doesn't work I may have to bite the bullet and invest in something pricier.

[Avalonstar]

Given the drought of dejitter boards, I was looking at Tim's page on activating the feature on the NESRGB board itself. I have v1.4, and was wondering if anybody had tried this mod? Haven't found much commentary on it.

https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_f ... itter.html

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I resolved my HDMI video/audio dropouts with this, a StarTech VID2HDCON2 S-Video or Composite to HDMI Converter. Using Composite mode is extremely blurry, but the S-Video mode is pretty crisp and because it's powered by a proper AC adapter and not a micro USB, it delivers a consistent signal.

The dropouts happened on two cheap cables that were powered over micro USB. I thought my power supply's USB ports would have received sufficient power, but perhaps there's minor fluctuations that were impacting it enough to cause an issue. The quality isn't quite as sharp as the crisp Hyperkin PS2 HDMI cable I tried, but if I hadn't tried that first I wouldn't have noticed or had a complaint about the StarTech converter. It's a solid little upscaler for a fraction of the price of the hardcore, higher end ones.

[orange808]

It's a solid little upscaler for a fraction of the price of the hardcore, higher end ones.

Good to hear. Getting a reliable image on the screen is always good. If you can see the game, you can play it.

On the other hand, future readers of the thread should mind the term "solid" here as purely subjective. The output you're getting is likely very poor when compared to high end solutions--and many (myself included) would hesitate to call that Startech "solid".

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Not having ever seen what a game looks like on a high end solution, due to frankly not having the budget to spend that much on tech at the moment, no, I can't say I know how it compares to an OSSC or RetroTink. However, I do know what the PS2 looks like when played on a TV that supports its native Composite & S-Video input cable and it looks pretty darn comparable to when I've played it on a smaller CRT screen in terms of sharpness as well as an in-between flatscreen, so it does the job within my currently limited hardware budget.

[ldeveraux]

I recently picked up a used 4k Sony Bravia XBR-55X950G LED that I was planning to replace my old Samsung PN50C7000YF plasma. I thought it might be a 1:1 replacement as long as I turned off all processing on the Sony and let the OSSC and Extron DSC301HD do all the heavy lifting. I'm outputting HDMI from the Extron to the TV (after audio is split out to the receiver). I've read that the Bravia HDMI input is murder on retro setups like this and my first impression is to agree. This Bravia doesn't have a VGA input sadly.

The problem is the picture is very blurry. I've tried tooling around in the OSSC and extron settings but nothing seems to clarify the Sony screen. The OSSC was set to Line5x for the pictures below. Is there anything I can do? Anything I'm missing? I feel like I might have to abandon the Sony for retro games if not. Sorry the pictures are huge and taken from my phone!

Samsung:


Sony:

[bobrocks95]

It's a solid little upscaler for a fraction of the price of the hardcore, higher end ones.

Good to hear. Getting a reliable image on the screen is always good. If you can see the game, you can play it.

On the other hand, future readers of the thread should mind the term "solid" here as purely subjective. The output you're getting is likely very poor when compared to high end solutions--and many (myself included) would hesitate to call that Startech "solid".

$140 can more than get you a Chinese OSSC, I see plenty for around $110, so I don't even see where the "fraction of the price" argument is coming in...

I recently picked up a used 4k Sony Bravia XBR-55X950G LED that I was planning to replace my old Samsung PN50C7000YF plasma. I thought it might be a 1:1 replacement as long as I turned off all processing on the Sony and let the OSSC and Extron DSC301HD do all the heavy lifting. I'm outputting HDMI from the Extron to the TV (after audio is split out to the receiver). I've read that the Bravia HDMI input is murder on retro setups like this and my first impression is to agree. This Bravia doesn't have a VGA input sadly.

The problem is the picture is very blurry. I've tried tooling around in the OSSC and extron settings but nothing seems to clarify the Sony screen. The OSSC was set to Line5x for the pictures below. Is there anything I can do? Anything I'm missing? I feel like I might have to abandon the Sony for retro games if not. Sorry the pictures are huge and taken from my phone!

Oof put those pictures in a spoiler tag please!

Hard to tell but I see ringing on the Samsung I think. Are you using optimized settings on the OSSC or generic? Have you tried all 3 different 5x output modes? What model Genesis/MD are you using and has it had any work done?

What is the Extron scaler doing if you've already got a 1080p signal from the OSSC?

I haven't seen a Sony set handle 1080p upscaling that poorly, but the Samsung picture (from that quality and zoom level) isn't particularly pleasing either, though it's of course enough to tell that the Sony is quite soft.

[strayan]

I recently picked up a used 4k Sony Bravia XBR-55X950G LED that I was planning to replace my old Samsung PN50C7000YF plasma. I thought it might be a 1:1 replacement as long as I turned off all processing on the Sony and let the OSSC and Extron DSC301HD do all the heavy lifting. I'm outputting HDMI from the Extron to the TV (after audio is split out to the receiver). I've read that the Bravia HDMI input is murder on retro setups like this and my first impression is to agree. This Bravia doesn't have a VGA input sadly.

The problem is the picture is very blurry. I've tried tooling around in the OSSC and extron settings but nothing seems to clarify the Sony screen. The OSSC was set to Line5x for the pictures below. Is there anything I can do? Anything I'm missing? I feel like I might have to abandon the Sony for retro games if not. Sorry the pictures are huge and taken from my phone!

The Sony has a 4k panel and the neither to Extron nor the OSSC can output this resolution so the scaler in the TV itself will go on to scale whatever signal it receives it to 4k. Most of the time this will be a ‘soft’ bilinear scale. This tends to makes things look blurry. Some (very few TV’s) will use nearest neighbour scaling to do this which will result in a very sharp image e.g. https://twitter.com/fbxgargoyle/status/ ... LFNeHJ_hBA The ability of a TV to use this method of scaling is usually undcoumented or called something else e.g. ‘graphics mode’, ‘pixel by pixel’.

[Guile]

I recently picked up a used 4k Sony Bravia XBR-55X950G LED that I was planning to replace my old Samsung PN50C7000YF plasma. I thought it might be a 1:1 replacement as long as I turned off all processing on the Sony and let the OSSC and Extron DSC301HD do all the heavy lifting.

What is your source system for the game? The only thing I can think of that would make the picture that soft is if it's outputting some interlaced mode.

I have the same tv and it's very good for retro games and it definitely shouldn't look like your screenshot.

I agree with bobrocks that there is no need for the dsc301 in the chain as the Sony handles 960p and has very good 480p scaling on its own so you're adding a frame of lag unnecessarily.

[ldeveraux]

I recently picked up a used 4k Sony Bravia XBR-55X950G LED that I was planning to replace my old Samsung PN50C7000YF plasma. I thought it might be a 1:1 replacement as long as I turned off all processing on the Sony and let the OSSC and Extron DSC301HD do all the heavy lifting.

What is your source system for the game? The only thing I can think of that would make the picture that soft is if it's outputting some interlaced mode.

I have the same tv and it's very good for retro games and it definitely shouldn't look like your screenshot.

I agree with bobrocks that there is no need for the dsc301 in the chain as the Sony handles 960p and has very good 480p scaling on its own so you're adding a frame of lag unnecessarily.

I'll remove the DSC301 and see if it makes a difference, though it probably shouldn't.

I'm using a Gen1 Genesis > SCART switch > SCART2RGB > gcompsw > OSSC > (DSC-301-HD) > HDMI switchers and extractors > TV and receiver

If you use an OSSC also could you include your settings file?

[bobrocks95]

I'll remove the DSC301 and see if it makes a difference, though it probably shouldn't.

Even if it's visually the same I don't know why you're using it. It's taking a 1080p signal, adding a frame of lag, and spitting out a 1080p signal (maybe with frame rate conversion?)

I'm using a Gen1 Genesis > SCART switch > SCART2RGB > gcompsw > OSSC > (DSC-301-HD) > HDMI switchers and extractors > TV and receiver

Quite a long chain. What kind of SCART switch? What's the SCART2RGB, do you mean some kind of YUV converter since it's going into a gcompsw?

Try the Genesis straight into the OSSC and dropping the DSC-301. It might be a pain and it doesn't need to be permanent, but you're testing a new display and you need to eliminate as many factors as you can.

If you use an OSSC also could you include your settings file?

If you've never messed with optimal sampling you can download FBX's OSSC settings pack and start there, that's my baseline.

[Guile]

I'll remove the DSC301 and see if it makes a difference, though it probably shouldn't.

I'm using a Gen1 Genesis > SCART switch > SCART2RGB > gcompsw > OSSC > (DSC-301-HD) > HDMI switchers and extractors > TV and receiver

If you use an OSSC also could you include your settings file?

I use an OSSC with 240p component from Wii emulators but lately I have been mostly using a Mister. I tested both yesterday on my Sony tv and it looked plenty sharp to me. I actually have barely touched the default settings on the OSSC and have not adjusted the sampling rate or anything. For 240p I use line 3x as 5x cuts off a little from the top and bottom.

[ldeveraux]

I've removed as much as I can and reset the OSSC back to default values. This is SNES SCART > OSSC 262-p > HDMI to TV. There must be a setting in the Sony I haven't disabled, because this still looks like mush. @Guile was there something I missed after a factory reset?

Samsung:


Sony:

[Guile]

I've removed as much as I can and reset the OSSC back to default values. This is SNES SCART > OSSC 262-p > HDMI to TV. There must be a setting in the Sony I haven't disabled, because this still looks like mush. @Guile was there something I missed after a factory reset?

I just checked my TV, it's just on Game mode, under Clarity the Sharpness is at 50, Reality Creation is on Manual with Resolution at 10, Motionflow is on Custom and both options on Min. Do you have an hdmi source like a raspberry pi or something to compare to the OSSC output?

[Fudoh]

Yes, check the sharpness first. It differes so much between manufacturers. LG for example has neutral sharpness with 0, while Sony adds massive blur at that level. On older Sonys, something like 20 or 25 was the neutral setting.

[ldeveraux]

I've removed as much as I can and reset the OSSC back to default values. This is SNES SCART > OSSC 262-p > HDMI to TV. There must be a setting in the Sony I haven't disabled, because this still looks like mush. @Guile was there something I missed after a factory reset?

I just checked my TV, it's just on Game mode, under Clarity the Sharpness is at 50, Reality Creation is on Manual with Resolution at 10, Motionflow is on Custom and both options on Min. Do you have an hdmi source like a raspberry pi or something to compare to the OSSC output?

I've copied your settings and no effect. I tried playing with the sharpness on the set (all settings really) and no improvement. I plugged my RetroPie into the same HDMI, played the same game, the picture is crisp, exactly like it should look. I then tried other systems (SNES, Genesis, NES) and they all look blurry. I tried importing FBX SNES profile and it's still blurry. I have no clue what kind of processing the Sony is applying, but I can't seem to turn it off!

[orange808]

Well, sounds like it's time to throw in the towel on that Sony. At some point, when others get better results and your individual unit acts strange, it's time to give up. I had a ridiculous DVDO iScan VP50pro that did all kinds of things I couldn't explain and the unit only got worse over time. I guess something is wrong with the tv. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ldeveraux]

Well, sounds like it's time to throw in the towel on that Sony. At some point, when others get better results and your individual unit acts strange, it's time to give up. I had a ridiculous DVDO iScan VP50pro that did all kinds of things I couldn't explain and the unit only got worse over time. I guess something is wrong with the tv. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not going to give up on a TV because it doesn't look great after 2 days of fiddling, especially considering another user with an identical setup says it looks brilliant. I'm sure the people on here who are far more technical than I can offer some further assistance. I'm not being demanding or expecting anything really, just trying every suggestion made to me, then updating as I go. Maybe I should have created a new thread?

[orange808]

Well, sounds like it's time to throw in the towel on that Sony. At some point, when others get better results and your individual unit acts strange, it's time to give up. I had a ridiculous DVDO iScan VP50pro that did all kinds of things I couldn't explain and the unit only got worse over time. I guess something is wrong with the tv. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not going to give up on a TV because it doesn't look great after 2 days of fiddling, especially considering another user with an identical setup says it looks brilliant. I'm sure the people on here who are far more technical than I can offer some further assistance. I'm not being demanding or expecting anything really, just trying every suggestion made to me, then updating as I go. Maybe I should have created a new thread?

Fair enough.

Want to bypass the scaling on the television? Fine. I know how, but it's not cheap.

Get an HDFury Linker and run it in RGB mode for best results. It requires a "normal" 1080p input signal and it will not accept OSSC timings. Only scales 1080p to 4k. You could easily chain the Linker behind the Extron 301HD. People think the Linker uses chroma subsampling, but that makes virtually no difference with retro consoles. That will scale up your 1080p from the Extron to a reasonably sharp 4k. If that fails, your display is to blame. I still have one somewhere and it comes up pretty. No measurable additional latency. Tested that with the Leo Bodnar. I haven't tried their newer scalers much, just the Linker.

Could also grab an Extron HD-HD 4k Plus A. That also looks nice. Not really worth the price, though.

How much more time and money do want to pour into an old LCD panel? That's up to you. If you really think it's the 1080p->4k scaling, the Linker is worth a look.

[Guile]

I've copied your settings and no effect. I tried playing with the sharpness on the set (all settings really) and no improvement. I plugged my RetroPie into the same HDMI, played the same game, the picture is crisp, exactly like it should look. I then tried other systems (SNES, Genesis, NES) and they all look blurry. I tried importing FBX SNES profile and it's still blurry. I have no clue what kind of processing the Sony is applying, but I can't seem to turn it off!

Well that's a good sign that it looks sharp from the Retropie at least. That makes me think maybe something is up with your OSSC but if that looks good on the Samsung then I don't know. Do you have any other scalers like a gbs-c or Retrotink to compare it against? My OSSC isn't on the latest firmware so I can't export the profile and I don't really want to update it. Maybe you could also try line 3x on the OSSC as I think 720p scales better into 4k.

[ldeveraux]

Well, sounds like it's time to throw in the towel on that Sony. At some point, when others get better results and your individual unit acts strange, it's time to give up. I had a ridiculous DVDO iScan VP50pro that did all kinds of things I couldn't explain and the unit only got worse over time. I guess something is wrong with the tv. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not going to give up on a TV because it doesn't look great after 2 days of fiddling, especially considering another user with an identical setup says it looks brilliant. I'm sure the people on here who are far more technical than I can offer some further assistance. I'm not being demanding or expecting anything really, just trying every suggestion made to me, then updating as I go. Maybe I should have created a new thread?

Fair enough.

Want to bypass the scaling on the television? Fine. I know how, but it's not cheap.

Get an HDFury Linker and run it in RGB mode for best results. It requires a "normal" 1080p input signal and it will not accept OSSC timings. Only scales 1080p to 4k. You could easily chain the Linker behind the Extron 301HD. People think the Linker uses chroma subsampling, but that makes virtually no difference with retro consoles. That will scale up your 1080p from the Extron to a reasonably sharp 4k. If that fails, your display is to blame. I still have one somewhere and it comes up pretty. No measurable additional latency. Tested that with the Leo Bodnar. I haven't tried their newer scalers much, just the Linker.

Could also grab an Extron HD-HD 4k Plus A. That also looks nice. Not really worth the price, though.

How much more time and money do want to pour into an old LCD panel? That's up to you. If you really think it's the 1080p->4k scaling, the Linker is worth a look.

I have no clue what it is or I would have fixed it, that's why I'm asking. I guess it's the interaction between the OSSC and the TV. Once I got the OSSC setup for my Samsung years ago, I left it alone so I wouldn't have to do this again. I'm not averse to trying new things, but nothing thus far has worked 100%. I don't really feel like paying $200 for a Linker that I don't know it will solve my problem. If I set the OSSC to line5x the Sony looks sharp with the SNES, blurry with the Genesis, and I notice some ghosting. I was running line2x on the Samsung because that was what worked best for me, and I didn't notice there was ghosting until just now!

So I don't know what I'll do, but the Sony is from 2019 I wouldn't consider it an old TV by any means

[ldeveraux]

I've copied your settings and no effect. I tried playing with the sharpness on the set (all settings really) and no improvement. I plugged my RetroPie into the same HDMI, played the same game, the picture is crisp, exactly like it should look. I then tried other systems (SNES, Genesis, NES) and they all look blurry. I tried importing FBX SNES profile and it's still blurry. I have no clue what kind of processing the Sony is applying, but I can't seem to turn it off!

Well that's a good sign that it looks sharp from the Retropie at least. That makes me think maybe something is up with your OSSC but if that looks good on the Samsung then I don't know. Do you have any other scalers like a gbs-c or Retrotink to compare it against? My OSSC isn't on the latest firmware so I can't export the profile and I don't really want to update it. Maybe you could also try line 3x on the OSSC as I think 720p scales better into 4k.

I have both an original Rt2x and a GBSC, but not too familiar with the GBSC for sure. I don't have a RT5x, was waiting for the pixelmorph.