Questions that do not deserve a thread

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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Remember that while OLED TVs have an RGBW subpixel pattern, they have four subpixels per pixel. There is no pentile or other subpixel sharing going on.
I know, but there was some limitation in place, which makes them inferior to JOLED's panels. Something about not all four subpixels used at the same time? So dark details are rendered at a higher resolution than light ones? I don't really recall. You can try that RTINGS pattern (but a 4K one, not a 1080p one) inverted (with a white background).
Last edited by Fudoh on Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Issac Zachary
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Issac Zachary »

Any suggestions on buying a Raspberry PI 3 for MT32-Pi Hat v2.1?

These seem hard to find or quite expensive on eBay.

I found a couple PI 3's on Digikey, but the lead time is 20 weeks. Would that be the best way of getting one (even though it will be a long wait)?

Also, I don't know much about each model, but the PI 3 seems to have a better lead time than the 3 B+ and costs the same, but has a slower clock speed (1.2GH vs 1.4GH). Does it reall y matter which one I get?
ldeveraux
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

Issac Zachary wrote:Any suggestions on buying a Raspberry PI 3 for MT32-Pi Hat v2.1?

These seem hard to find or quite expensive on eBay.

I found a couple PI 3's on Digikey, but the lead time is 20 weeks. Would that be the best way of getting one (even though it will be a long wait)?

Also, I don't know much about each model, but the PI 3 seems to have a better lead time than the 3 B+ and costs the same, but has a slower clock speed (1.2GH vs 1.4GH). Does it reall y matter which one I get?
The MT32-Pi Hat says it work with Raspberry Pi 3 or above. Why not get a RPi4?
Issac Zachary
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Issac Zachary »

ldeveraux wrote:
Issac Zachary wrote:Any suggestions on buying a Raspberry PI 3 for MT32-Pi Hat v2.1?

These seem hard to find or quite expensive on eBay.

I found a couple PI 3's on Digikey, but the lead time is 20 weeks. Would that be the best way of getting one (even though it will be a long wait)?

Also, I don't know much about each model, but the PI 3 seems to have a better lead time than the 3 B+ and costs the same, but has a slower clock speed (1.2GH vs 1.4GH). Does it reall y matter which one I get?
The MT32-Pi Hat says it work with Raspberry Pi 3 or above. Why not get a RPi4?
Ya, I thought about that. But those are also hard to find and even more expensive.

On the other hand the PI 4 is only $10 more on Digikey and has a 12 week Lead Time instead of 20.
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Guspaz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guspaz »

strayan wrote:
Guspaz wrote:OLED TVs have an RGBW subpixel pattern, they have four subpixels per pixel. There is no pentile or other subpixel sharing going on.
I thought they had a BGRW subpixel pattern.
Looking at some macro shots, it seems to be RWBG on the C1, but my point is not the specific arrangement, but that it has four separate subpixels for each pixel.
Fudoh wrote:I know, but there was some limitation in place, which makes them inferior to JOLED's panels. Something about not all four subpixels used at the same time? So dark details are rendered at a higher resolution than light ones? I don't really recall. You can try that RTINGS pattern (but a 4K one, not a 1080p one) inverted (with a white background).
The only complaint about it that I've heard is that using the white subpixel to boost brightness compromises the saturation (the more light is coming from white, the less light can be specific to one colour), but that's a colour accuracy issue, not a resolution one. Even if it can't activate all the subpixels at the same time, as long as that decision is made independently per pixel, it's again an accuracy issue and not a resolution issue.

I replaced the background of the the RTINGS test image with white and took some macro shots. The pure white background actually appears to be mostly the white subpixel with a bit of red and green added. Blue text is 100% blue subpixel. Green text is 100% green subpixel. Red text is 100% red subpixel. Yellow text is 50% red and 50% green subpixel. Blue text seems to be 100% blue subpixel but that photo was a bit out of focus. Purple text was 100% red/blue. Cyan was mostly green and some blue. Grey text just dimmed the white subpixel (can't tell if there's any red/green left, not focused enough).

The text in the RTINGS test pattern is all full brightness colours, and none of them appeared to have any white subpixel included at all. I'm sure there are scenarios/colours that do include the white subpixel (it'd be pretty useless if that subpixel only worked for monochrome images), but in all cases the colour information was full resolution. However, because the aspect ratio of the pixels is so wide (just in the sense of having four subpixels in a horizontal row), and so big (this is a 77" TV), if you get real close to the screen it can look a bit odd. Like for the green text, it's shutting off the three subpixels to the left of the green one, so it almost looks like there's a dark shadow to the left of the green text. Of course, there isn't, it's just that 75% of the space of the pixel is black. The effect disappears as you get farther away, as you'd expect. Yellow also look a bit funky, almost like there's two double-images, but I really think this is just because I'm not used to how enormous subpixels get on a 77" screen, to the extent that they're visible to the naked eye without magnification. I realize that none of this matters when your face isn't a few inches away from a 77" TV, but it almost makes me think "Maybe 8K isn't so silly after all" :P

EDIT: The resolution of the test pattern isn't relevant because I'm displaying it at 1:1 pixel size. I'd disabled Windows scaling for this test.

EDIT 2: I'm not saying that RGBW isn't a compromise with downsides, only that it isn't impacting the actual chroma resolution. RGB would obviously be better for a variety of reasons. Samsung's QD-OLED panels reportedly present only RGB (they're all blue subpixels with quantom dots used to turn the blue light into red and green). The advantage being, no light lost to colour filters, so they don't need the white subpixel to compensate for the light blocked by the filters. Hopefully LG is also working on new OLED types because they can only push their current "more like an LCD with an OLED per-subpixel backlight" approach so far.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

Issac Zachary wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Issac Zachary wrote:Any suggestions on buying a Raspberry PI 3 for MT32-Pi Hat v2.1?

These seem hard to find or quite expensive on eBay.

I found a couple PI 3's on Digikey, but the lead time is 20 weeks. Would that be the best way of getting one (even though it will be a long wait)?

Also, I don't know much about each model, but the PI 3 seems to have a better lead time than the 3 B+ and costs the same, but has a slower clock speed (1.2GH vs 1.4GH). Does it reall y matter which one I get?
The MT32-Pi Hat says it work with Raspberry Pi 3 or above. Why not get a RPi4?
Ya, I thought about that. But those are also hard to find and even more expensive.

On the other hand the PI 4 is only $10 more on Digikey and has a 12 week Lead Time instead of 20.
Eek, no kidding, I just checked my usual places and same story. Only place I even found them in stock is the PiHut:
https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b
https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry ... del-b-plus
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

Isn't the RP4's hardware incapable of correct super resolutions like they use for all the CRT-Pi builds with RGBS - or otherwise has some issue like that (unless they somehow fixed this and I haven't noticed)? --so people are still sticking with the RP3 for retro gaming type stuff (don't know how/if that applies to the Raspberry Pi being used as a mister add-on which I know nothing about... just thought I'd mention that).
Last edited by Dochartaigh on Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Edgecrusher »

I'm using a 4b in my cocktail and outputting through a cheap hdmi to s-video off amazon. It works. Strange thing is the converter has composite video as well and I don't get color with just the s-video without also plugging in that composite. Maybe the converter is junk. Right now there's not a lot I can do with the chip shortage happening and no decent solutions available. I'm still in the search for ways to set up the pi with s-video to where I can get a better picture. Lots of RGB or composite info. Not much about s-video and forget about composite.
Issac Zachary
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Issac Zachary »

ldeveraux wrote:Eek, no kidding, I just checked my usual places and same story. Only place I even found them in stock is the PiHut:
https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b
https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry ... del-b-plus
Thanks! That's helpful!

I guess there must be some sort of chip shortage going on or something.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

Edgecrusher wrote:I'm using a 4b in my cocktail and outputting through a cheap hdmi to s-video off amazon. It works. Strange thing is the converter has composite video as well and I don't get color with just the s-video without also plugging in that composite. Maybe the converter is junk. Right now there's not a lot I can do with the chip shortage happening and no decent solutions available. I'm still in the search for ways to set up the pi with s-video to where I can get a better picture. Lots of RGB or composite info. Not much about s-video and forget about composite.
Your best bet is most likely a RGB to S-Video - try Antonio Villena’s ( https://www.antoniovillena.es/store/pro ... o-adapter/ ) or linuxbot3000 on eBay if so. May need to chain a HDMI to VGA before one :(
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Edgecrusher »

Issac Zachary wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Eek, no kidding, I just checked my usual places and same story. Only place I even found them in stock is the PiHut:
https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b
https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry ... del-b-plus
Thanks! That's helpful!

I guess there must be some sort of chip shortage going on or something.

Yes. Until someone gets off their backside and unloads some shipping containers electronics will not be available like they were and even then they will probably be used up so quick we'll be out again waiting for the chinese to send us some more. So pathetic.
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Edgecrusher
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Edgecrusher »

kitty666cats wrote:
Edgecrusher wrote:I'm using a 4b in my cocktail and outputting through a cheap hdmi to s-video off amazon. It works. Strange thing is the converter has composite video as well and I don't get color with just the s-video without also plugging in that composite. Maybe the converter is junk. Right now there's not a lot I can do with the chip shortage happening and no decent solutions available. I'm still in the search for ways to set up the pi with s-video to where I can get a better picture. Lots of RGB or composite info. Not much about s-video and forget about composite.
Your best bet is most likely a RGB to S-Video - try Antonio Villena’s ( https://www.antoniovillena.es/store/pro ... o-adapter/ ) or linuxbot3000 on eBay if so. May need to chain a HDMI to VGA before one :(

I found linuxbots converter. Do you know if this is something I could hook up with vga and s-video cables to a PC or is there some wiring I'd have to do between the converter and the PC?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Anybody used an 8bitdo SNES Retro Receiver with one of their more modern controllers, specifically the SN30+ Pro or the Pro 2?

Lag results sound poor, but I'm looking for a controller for playing SNES games that has more grip to it like a modern controller, and they seem like the best option. Maybe there are alternatives?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

Has anyone ever tried using the s-video output on a Corio 2 universal scaler? I have a c2-2355 with s-video out but I can't figure out how to actually output anything on that port. I have a DVI source and I set the output to ntsc but the output options are only RGBHV, RGBS, YUV, but no CV or Y/C.
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VEGETA
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

hello

does anyone have problems with XNOR sync combiner circuit?

I've read the articles about it from HDRV and saw that PIC project (didn't understand the code much)... so I am building a circuit which needs sync combining and thought of asking you guys for your best way if you tested it.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

VEGETA wrote:I've read the articles about it from HDRV and saw that PIC project (didn't understand the code much)... so I am building a circuit which needs sync combining and thought of asking you guys for your best way if you tested it.
this absolutely deserves it's own thread. you should start a build thread so people can search for it and reference the information in the future.
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VEGETA
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

vol.2 wrote:
VEGETA wrote:I've read the articles about it from HDRV and saw that PIC project (didn't understand the code much)... so I am building a circuit which needs sync combining and thought of asking you guys for your best way if you tested it.
this absolutely deserves it's own thread. you should start a build thread so people can search for it and reference the information in the future.


I would but I still didn't make a solution, I just referenced the already existent solutions.
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orange808
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by orange808 »

Guile wrote:Has anyone ever tried using the s-video output on a Corio 2 universal scaler? I have a c2-2355 with s-video out but I can't figure out how to actually output anything on that port. I have a DVI source and I set the output to ntsc but the output options are only RGBHV, RGBS, YUV, but no CV or Y/C.
AFAIK, the C2 only outputs 480i on composite and svideo.
We apologise for the inconvenience
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

orange808 wrote:
AFAIK, the C2 only outputs 480i on composite and svideo.
Do you mean that the input has to be composite or svideo to output 480i pretty much like a passthrough? I thought it should be able to down convert too. I set the output resolution to ntsc but get nothing out of the svideo output and there is no option to set the output as CV or YC, the manual isn't too clear about that.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by RuffNEC »

RocketBelt wrote:
BuckoA51 wrote:
Rebirth technically isn't a virtual console title, but a regular Wii download title. No 240p there. I recall that only the NTSC version does run in 480p. I tried the same back then with the PAL version, no dice. Had to switch to the NTSC version instead. This is from far memory though - - -
I tried them both, they both go into 480i regardless of how the Wii is set.
I got it to work in 480p on a PAL Wii by loading it into Neek using the US version on a US NTSC Nand.
that's what I want to achieve to be able to play Castlevania + Contra Rebirt in 480p on a PAL Console. But I find it really hard to setup a neek (virtual nand) I don't really wanna touch my outdated Wii Mod with systm menu 3.2E
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kitty666cats
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

This has probably been asked + answered a zillion times here, lol but here we go:

Are there any VGA to HDMIs out there that don’t apply chroma subsampling? Not scalers/processors, just simple format converters. I know obviously there’s the possibility of using the OSSC or certain few Extron devices on passthrough, just wondering if there are any other external (and maybe even sub-$100 USD? Heh) boxes that pass 4:4:4
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Fudoh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

I don't recall ever encountering a non-scaling VGA to HDMI converter that DOESN'T retain full 4:4:4. The majority does a pretty nice job as long as the receive a resolution they know (which takes you that particular Dreamcast sampling problem, where hardly any of the converters actually expect a 720x480p signal and apply the correct sampling rate to it).
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kitty666cats
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

Fudoh wrote:I don't recall ever encountering a non-scaling VGA to HDMI converter that DOESN'T retain full 4:4:4. The majority does a pretty nice job as long as the receive a resolution they know (which takes you that particular Dreamcast sampling problem, where hardly any of the converters actually expect a 720x480p signal and apply the correct sampling rate to it).
Good to know - makes sense, since there’s not going to be all sorts of complex formulas and bandwidth-sorcery with a simple analog to digital conversion :P
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by thchardcore »

Silly question possibly, but since it is Scart, wanted to conform - a female to male scart extension is a 1 for 1 direct pinout (no in/out female and male cross over considerations)?
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nes.og
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nes.og »

thchardcore wrote:Silly question possibly, but since it is Scart, wanted to conform - a female to male scart extension is a 1 for 1 direct pinout (no in/out female and male cross over considerations)?
Correct but that’s to not say some cheap adapters won’t cause issues. Seems like SCART is always sensitive but other people may disagree.
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VEGETA
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

can LM1881 work properly with sync on green? I guess it can work nicely with csync, sync on composite, and sync on luma right?

also, can it tolerate higher resolutions... up to 1080p for example or at least 1080i?

I am planning to use it since the new replacement ones are more expensive.
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vol.2
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by vol.2 »

what do you mean "work properly with sync on green?"

if you mean "can it strip the sync from the green with sync on green" then it probably can do it just fine, though i haven't tried.

no, it's not intended for HD signals. the only input is composite NTSC, PAL or SECAM. that only goes up to 480i. you want anything higher you need something with more bandwidth like a component or RGB signal.


this will answer all you questions... https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm188 ... 252Flm1881
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VEGETA
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

vol.2 wrote:what do you mean "work properly with sync on green?"

if you mean "can it strip the sync from the green with sync on green" then it probably can do it just fine, though i haven't tried.

no, it's not intended for HD signals. the only input is composite NTSC, PAL or SECAM. that only goes up to 480i. you want anything higher you need something with more bandwidth like a component or RGB signal.


this will answer all you questions... https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm188 ... 252Flm1881
I've read recently on this topic, looks like people think it can do sync on green but no one tested it. Plus, no guarantee it will go beyond 480i. Therefore, decided to use the awesome and newer LMH1980 which can do everything. I bet people here tested it too. LM1881 does not output H sync either which is required in my application that I am designing right now.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Guile »

I have a VGA2NTSC and I want to try using the scart output for downscaling with a gbs-c. I read somewhere that it will still pass rgbs 31khz on the scart output even though it is meant for 15khz inputs.

Is there a recommended scart to vga cable that will work in this case?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

Guile wrote:I have a VGA2NTSC and I want to try using the scart output for downscaling with a gbs-c. I read somewhere that it will still pass rgbs 31khz on the scart output even though it is meant for 15khz inputs.

Is there a recommended scart to vga cable that will work in this case?
I’d imagine audio isn’t a concern since your input is VGA… so this would probably do the trick:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Optoma-Scart-t ... 3593859321
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