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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:05 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
orange808 wrote:
A Sony DS4 and DS4Windows is a fairly easy solution with low polling time; that's what I use.

I've been using a mix of a DS4 via Bluetooth (without DS4Windows; support for it in Steam has been good; I can play Spyro Reignited with the correct button glyphs) and Xbox 360 controllers with the Wireless Receiver for Windows peripheral.


I don't think the DS4 will default to 1ms polling directly in Steam--although I admit I dismissed and abandoned Steam's controller support thing long ago. Maybe they care now; I don't know for sure (but I seriously doubt it).

I know DS4Windows delivers decent polling time over bluetooth. Latency varies on my rig a little, but consistently low.

To be honest, I haven't purchased many third party knockoff controllers that are genuinely good. I know some good ones exist, but they are rare. I prefer good first party controllers from console manufacturers. Almost every third party thing I've ever bought had at least one button mysteriously stop working one day--with low hours of usage. I've gotten so gunshy and jaded, I just roll my eyes when one of these knockoff companies announces another "look alike" controller thing. I've been burned one too many times.

Another favorite of mine is a good ol' official Nintendo SNES game pad with a Raphnet adapter. Those SNES controllers with a Raphnet have snappy overall response and the controllers have wonderful build quality. The dpad doesn't require too much travel, the plastic isn't too hard or sharp, and the diagonals feel natural. N64 controllers also feel good using the dpad, but I think they are a little slower; it doesn't make much difference. Genny six button pads are also decent, they have a unique feel to them--and they feel easy on my thumb.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:23 pm 


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Thanks for the input everyone! I ended-up getting the Xbone wired controller and I've been pretty happy with it. I do notice that the responsiveness is a tad better than the wireless 360 controllers. As I mentioned, there is a ton of wireless interference in my apartment - my wifi is AC1750 and I'm lucky to get a 300mbps connection. (When I first moved-in I had a wireless N router and Netflix was unwatchable.)

I'm something of a newb - I've been really into shmups for the past ~6 months after a 10 year hiatus (I was playing a ton of RSG back then, and Ikaruga before that). I'm working on 1CC-ing ZeroRanger (almost there; I can get to Despair without continuing and I've beaten her without taking a hit while practicing), but I've trained myself using the analog stick. I tried playing it on my arcade stick and only being able to move in 8 directions felt constraining, as I've gotten used to moving in tight arcs and loops. Maybe it would ultimately be better to re-learn using analog input, but I'm so close to my goal that I don't want to start re-training my muscle memory now. But I've also been playing some Eschatos on the side with my arcade stick and enjoying the hell out of it.

Anyway, I do appreciate everyone's input!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:44 pm 



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 34
vol.2 wrote:
pedroTFP wrote:
Thanks, I'll look at it and let you known! Assuming it is good condition, my concerns were about 2530's lower TVL count and that the set would look too much like a consumer 25" RGB Trinitron set from mid 90's, hence not worth the trade.


Pay attention to how bright the set is mostly. Try to turn up the contrast (the contrast knob is the brightness on a CRT) and see how much range it has. It should have plenty of upward headroom, and it shouldn't seem excessively blown-out at higher contrast levels. There will always be some bloom, but there's a difference between a strong tube and a weak one in that regard. Also, look at how focused the tube is. That's adjustable, but there's going to be a limit to how much you can improve it.

Ok, I did it and I'm super happy for the big screen (also, I mistyped: it's a 2730QM). Tube looks great, thanks for the info! Now I'll look for a RM-688 on eBay.
Speaking of remotes: is there a way to connect a remote with PVM L\M series in order to not always use the button on the front to turn off\on? It gives me the feel it wears old the monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:54 pm 


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pedroTFP wrote:
is there a way to connect a remote with PVM L\M series in order to not always use the button on the front to turn off\on?


I can't help with remote control questions on those. No experience there. Hopefully someone else can help you.

Glad you were able to dial-in your set.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:23 pm 



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Well I think I finally killed my PVM. I almost fixed it, but every time I opened it back up I made it worse. Now my picture has collapsed entirely into a little dot. Is it possible I just missed plugging something back in right, or did I finally kill the bitch?

I appreciate all the help I've gotten here, without it I wouldn't have gotten as close as I did.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:34 pm 


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ajdesmarais wrote:
Is it possible I just missed plugging something back in right, or did I finally kill the bitch?


Anything is possible. Only was to find out is to go through it and check carefully. This is where all the step-by-step exhaustive photo documentation you did of the whole process comes in super handy. You did photograph everything you undid before you undid it, right?

Failing that, you'll have to lean on your service manual to check all the connectors and make sure everything is where it ought to be.

If everything is hooked up right, you might be looking at blown output transistors. There is usually an larger IC for the VERT that incorporates a few functions, and then a big ol HOR transistor. The verticals of many a set are very sensitive to the capacitors attached to them. I would pull and check every single cap that touches the VERT IC before attempting to replace the IC and turn it on again. The HOR often has large film caps instead of electrolytics that are less likely to go bad, but if you see an electrolytics in the HOR, check those too.

Of course, you could do all that and it still might not work. It can be a tricky rabbit hole.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:54 am 



Joined: 03 Jan 2021
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I was looking at this odd switcher with line doubler, the Extron System 4 ldxi. https://www.extron.com/product/sys4ldxi

It looks like it only takes and outputs various rgb formats so if I only have component I need some kind of transcoder to use it?

I'm surprised it has no support for component video.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:02 am 


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Guile wrote:
It looks like it only takes and outputs various rgb formats so if I only have component I need some kind of transcoder to use it?

The specs claim that it can also accept S-Video and composite, but they are not listed as possible output formats. That and the "line-doubled video" in the output section seem to indicate that this box is more than just a simple switcher. If it does have a mode where it just passes signals through without any processing, there is a chance that it will work with component video anyway by feeding luma on G and the two color difference signals on R and B.

Quote:
I'm surprised it has no support for component video.

As far as I know Extron started with building solutions for processing PC video signals, so it would not be that surprising if their older gear is only specified for RGB and not component.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:40 am 



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Unseen wrote:
Guile wrote:
It looks like it only takes and outputs various rgb formats so if I only have component I need some kind of transcoder to use it?

The specs claim that it can also accept S-Video and composite, but they are not listed as possible output formats. That and the "line-doubled video" in the output section seem to indicate that this box is more than just a simple switcher. If it does have a mode where it just passes signals through without any processing, there is a chance that it will work with component video anyway by feeding luma on G and the two color difference signals on R and B.

Quote:
I'm surprised it has no support for component video.

As far as I know Extron started with building solutions for processing PC video signals, so it would not be that surprising if their older gear is only specified for RGB and not component.


I'm interested to see how the line doubling works in this device. It's really crazy how hard it is to find a good ypbpr to rgbhv transcoder now. It looks promising to try svideo or composite at least as a test and output rgbhv as vga. It might be similar to a dvdo iscan plus in that way.

I wonder if I just connect ypbpr to the rgb if it would work or get a green picture. Ideally I wanted to see how it doubles 480i component.

I found the manual and it looks like it does have a pass-through mode. I'm more interested in the line doubling but it might make a good switch too.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 pm 


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Guile wrote:
It's really crazy how hard it is to find a good ypbpr to rgbhv transcoder now.


You can always use this https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/comp2rgb and then processes the csync to H and V with a sync processor if you are using a PC monitor and you have to.


Quote:
I wonder if I just connect ypbpr to the rgb if it would work


no. incompatible. component video encodes the signal to reduce the number of wires. You would have to use two of the colors (I'd use Blue and Red) and then put the Y cable (the one that is green in the component bundle) into the S hole on the Extron. That is going to have to function as sync in this case. I don't think anyone is sure this will work until you try it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:57 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
component video encodes the signal to reduce the number of wires.

I would've agreed with that if I didn't know that RGsB was a thing; if reduction of wires was the goal, RGsB accomplishes the same thing without needing to be decoded, and operates within the same electrical specification.

Now I'm wondering what even is the point of YPbPr if RGsB has the same capabilities. (I guess chroma subsampling for storage of video, such as for DVDs; which I can see as something that contributed to YPbPr adoption in North America over RGB.)


Last edited by nmalinoski on Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:15 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
Guile wrote:
It's really crazy how hard it is to find a good ypbpr to rgbhv transcoder now.


You can always use this https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/comp2rgb and then processes the csync to H and V with a sync processor if you are using a PC monitor and you have to.


Quote:
I wonder if I just connect ypbpr to the rgb if it would work


no. incompatible. component video encodes the signal to reduce the number of wires. You would have to use two of the colors (I'd use Blue and Red) and then put the Y cable (the one that is green in the component bundle) into the S hole on the Extron. That is going to have to function as sync in this case. I don't think anyone is sure this will work until you try it.


The retrotink transcoder looks nice but I'm looking for something cheaper unless I really need one.

I'll try the Y cable as sync and see if it works.


nmalinoski wrote:

Now I'm wondering what even is the point of YPbPr if RGsB has the same capabilities.


I've just started to learn about various sync formats and it really is confusing. I wonder if RGsB is easier with bnc so they created ypbpr or maybe it's cheaper to process ypbpr.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:15 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Now I'm wondering what even is the point of YPbPr if RGsB has the same capabilities. (I guess chroma subsampling for storage of video, such as for DVDs; which I can see as something that contributed to YPbPr adoption in North America over RGB.)


I seem to remember something about component video being capable of higher bandwidth over longer distances, but it's been awhile.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:09 am 



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Posts: 60
The ldxi actually didn't have an S port only HV and V. I tried component for fun but I only got a black and white image when the input format was set to svideo or composite. It was definitely overly bright too.

It had surprisingly low lag and the line doubling can be turned on or off and set to motion or still mode.

On a lcd monitor it was off center even when I set the horizontal movement all the way to the left.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:33 am 


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Guile wrote:
The ldxi actually didn't have an S port only HV and V. I tried component for fun but I only got a black and white image when the input format was set to svideo or composite. It was definitely overly bright too.


The HV is what you would put the Green cable into, it would serve the same function as an "S" output; some Extrons have an S and some don't, I think it's got to do with how old they are or something.

To test it, I would set it to RGB and just hook up the R and B to their respective colors. It wouldn't actually matter which one you do though, so long as you respect that the output will follow the input, but just using B for B and R for R will make it easier to keep track of.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:23 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
Guile wrote:
The ldxi actually didn't have an S port only HV and V. I tried component for fun but I only got a black and white image when the input format was set to svideo or composite. It was definitely overly bright too.


The HV is what you would put the Green cable into, it would serve the same function as an "S" output; some Extrons have an S and some don't, I think it's got to do with how old they are or something.

To test it, I would set it to RGB and just hook up the R and B to their respective colors. It wouldn't actually matter which one you do though, so long as you respect that the output will follow the input, but just using B for B and R for R will make it easier to keep track of.


I tried this and I managed to get a very green rgb output. With just R and B and G in HV I got a dim blue and red output so I connected a spare component Y to the G and got the very green output.

Interesting that it worked up to that point but I guess I do need to convert to rgb from component to really use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:32 pm 


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Guile wrote:
I tried this and I managed to get a very green rgb output.


It's not going to transcode the signal to RGB for you. You would have to hook it up to the component input of a TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:53 am 



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Which hdmi to component converter can output 240p? Would this one work? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082HT11MH

I'm trying to test if I can convert the gbs control 240p going into an ossc and out to 240p component.

I also tried downscaling on an iscan hd+ but I couldn't get it to work but I will test more. I had some trouble with the analog component output but I did have that working before.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:55 am 


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Get the Portta one. Here's my rundown of all the converters I tested:
viewtopic.php?p=1441618#p1441618


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:39 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Get the Portta one. Here's my rundown of all the converters I tested:
viewtopic.php?p=1441618#p1441618


Thanks, that's a great list. Do you know if a vga to svideo cable would work to get 240p from the output?

On the Startech converter would the ypbpr output be lower level or TTL sync?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:19 pm 


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Quote:
Thanks, that's a great list. Do you know if a vga to svideo cable would work to get 240p from the output?

no, if you need s-video you need to a get a HDMI to VGA unit (ideally the Portta again) along with a VGA2NTSC unit.

Quote:
On the Startech converter would the ypbpr output be lower level or TTL sync?

regular luma level, same as in composite video.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:35 am 


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I want to calibrate a PVM-2950 using the SMPTE pattern.

I'm using RGB.
the SMPTE-calibration tutorials I've seen mention at some point to, in blue-only mode, play with the Color setting to get two sets of bars towards the center to match on the pattern (after brightness is taken care of(bars towards edge)). but there's no ''color'' setting on RGB. which settings should I use at this step then : the white balance ones? (CUT and GAIN)?



I do have a PVM-20L5 that I can put next to the 2950 and can use as reference
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:01 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
I want to calibrate a PVM-2950 using the SMPTE pattern.

I'm using RGB.
the SMPTE-calibration tutorials I've seen mention at some point to, in blue-only mode, play with the Color setting to get two sets of bars towards the center to match on the pattern (after brightness is taken care of(bars towards edge)). but there's no ''color'' setting on RGB. which settings should I use at this step then : the white balance ones? (CUT and GAIN)?



I do have a PVM-20L5 that I can put next to the 2950 and can use as reference


It sounds like that tutorial is to calibrate NTSC demodulation. RGB doesn't go through NTSC color demod, so it wouldn't be a relevant procedure. I don't know if the 2950 has a service mode, but that's what you would use for something like this. It's possible (probable) that it doesn't, and you are expected to use a color monitor pattern generator to put up specific slides at specific temperatures for calibration. You can probably fake it with an RGB source that has the appropriate slides (240p test suite or something).

The Cut is for low level, the gain is for high. You typically start with either a white HOR line in the center of the screen (service mode) or a white raster with the contrast all the way down and the brightness so low you can just barely see the white (patter generator). The service mode will disable the brightness and contrast and you must use the G2 control (screen) to turn the brightness down to just the point you can barely see the line.
You back off the RGB output transistors with the Cut pots. Then you bring up one of the three and get a barely visible line or raster (lets say red) then you raise the blue until you have a perfect magenta (as good as your eyes can do) and then you raise the green until it's perfectly white (but still barely visible).

Then you would turn off service mode (if you are using one) and crank the brightness and contrast as high as they will go without blooming. Then you adjust the Gain until you get pure white. Some sets only have 2 Gain controls and typically have the red as a constant voltage so you won't have much guesswork to do, just make the green and the blue levels create pure white.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:34 am 


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thanks for the answer Vol. 2

I'm using the 240p test suite here

The 2950 has RCUT, GCUT, BCUT, GGAIN and BGAIN ajustments in the service menu (no RGAIN though but since it's the only one missing, I guess I can work all other settings around it)

Brightness and Contrast are outside of the service menu (in the regular menu) and i can't switch between these menus without turning the TV off, but... oh well that's a minor annoyance I guess


I'll try the stuff you mentionned. What's HOR? and when you mentionned an alternative : a ''white raster'', do you mean a full white screen, or a white grid(guessing it's the former but... just to be sure)?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:23 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
thanks for the answer Vol. 2

I'll try the stuff you mentionned. What's HOR? and when you mentionned an alternative : a ''white raster'', do you mean a full white screen, or a white grid(guessing it's the former but... just to be sure)?



HOR is just me being too lazy to write horizontal.

White raster=white screen


Quote:
no RGAIN though but since it's the only one missing, I guess I can work all other settings around it


Yes, that's what I meant by:

Quote:
Some sets only have 2 Gain controls and typically have the red as a constant voltage so you won't have much guesswork to do, just make the green and the blue levels create pure white.


It's a typical setup for TVs. PC monitors often have all three.


If you have a service menu, that makes things more complicated. There will be a certain order of operations. Also, you will still need to get inside. The menu only gives you access to some of the controls, not the Focus and the G2.

Here, read this: https://archive.org/details/sony_PVM-29 ... 5/mode/2up


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:46 pm 



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In OBS when streaming PS1 stuff (320X240 > 320X224) should the image be skewed to a 4:3 ratio? Just want to double check because I usually instead of upscaling the image to 1028X720 (after cropping the top and bottom black bars) the image should then be skewed to a 960X720 resolution, correct? This is sort of how a CRT does it (well, it kinda cuts off the top and bottom overscan to achieve the same)? There's also some games like Crash and Spyro that run at really wide resolution (512X224)

So 960X720 for pretty much everything from SD consoles (except games with widescreen support)? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:54 am 



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If I connect a Dreamcast vga to av3 rgbhv on the ossc and a 3.5mm rca audio adapter then to a dsc 301 I get no audio.

It works fine for ypbpr and I even tested plugging in the Dreamcast audio while it was on the ypbpr input and I did get the Dreamcast audio then.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:29 pm 



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AaronSR wrote:
In OBS when streaming PS1 stuff (320X240 > 320X224) should the image be skewed to a 4:3 ratio? Just want to double check because I usually instead of upscaling the image to 1028X720 (after cropping the top and bottom black bars) the image should then be skewed to a 960X720 resolution, correct? This is sort of how a CRT does it (well, it kinda cuts off the top and bottom overscan to achieve the same)? There's also some games like Crash and Spyro that run at really wide resolution (512X224)

So 960X720 for pretty much everything from SD consoles (except games with widescreen support)? Thanks

I'd say yes; if the game does not have explicit widescreen support, then the resulting image should be adjusted to 4:3. Apply overscan as/if desired.

Variable horizontal resolutions are pretty common up through the 5th and 6th generation, when CRTs still ruled, so they should not be displayed 1:1 on a fixed-pixel display.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:31 pm 



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Guile wrote:
If I connect a Dreamcast vga to av3 rgbhv on the ossc and a 3.5mm rca audio adapter then to a dsc 301 I get no audio.

It works fine for ypbpr and I even tested plugging in the Dreamcast audio while it was on the ypbpr input and I did get the Dreamcast audio then.

From what you said, and assuming you have a 1.6 OSSC (you didn't specify), you're using the wrong audio input for AV3; you need to use the TRS jack next to the DE-15 input. The TRS jack next to the HDMI output is for AV2 input (or AV1 breakout, if you flip the little switch).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:36 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
From what you said, and assuming you have a 1.6 OSSC (you didn't specify), you're using the wrong audio input for AV3; you need to use the TRS jack next to the DE-15 input. The TRS jack next to the HDMI output is for AV2 input (or AV1 breakout, if you flip the little switch).


Thanks that did it. I was also confused as one of my scalers doesn't pass audio. I do have a 1.6 ossc and the audio jack was next to the hdmi port on the opposite side of the AV1 jack, there was no jack near the DE-15.


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