Questions that do not deserve a thread

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Does anyone know if a CRT's orientation (North-South vs East-West) affects the convergence? I know it's a factor for overall geometry, but I finally got permalloy strips to try and improve my dynamic convergence and was wondering if orientation will affect it afterwards.
VEGETA wrote:I meant by component is universal is that as long as the screen supports 15khz, it will take and display everything. ntsc\pal are encoded signals, while RGB is just straight color channels. YPbPr is taken from that RGB which is universal as you mentioned.

the way I understand it, is that 50hz and 60hz are references mainly to pal and ntsc encoded videos but if you have rgb video converted to component and the monitor accepts 15khz then it should be able to display it properly. I am open to other tested opinions of say feeding rgb or component which is 50 hz to a 60hz crt and see what happens.
I believe you're right that YPbPr will not have any color encoding problems between NTSC and PAL, since chroma information is on separate data lines. There should only be a problem with CVBS. However, a 60Hz CRT is definitely not going to like receiving a 50Hz signal and vise-versa.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

bobrocks95 wrote:Does anyone know if a CRT's orientation (North-South vs East-West) affects the convergence? I know it's a factor for overall geometry, but I finally got permalloy strips to try and improve my dynamic convergence and was wondering if orientation will affect it afterwards.
VEGETA wrote:I meant by component is universal is that as long as the screen supports 15khz, it will take and display everything. ntsc\pal are encoded signals, while RGB is just straight color channels. YPbPr is taken from that RGB which is universal as you mentioned.

the way I understand it, is that 50hz and 60hz are references mainly to pal and ntsc encoded videos but if you have rgb video converted to component and the monitor accepts 15khz then it should be able to display it properly. I am open to other tested opinions of say feeding rgb or component which is 50 hz to a 60hz crt and see what happens.
I believe you're right that YPbPr will not have any color encoding problems between NTSC and PAL, since chroma information is on separate data lines. There should only be a problem with CVBS. However, a 60Hz CRT is definitely not going to like receiving a 50Hz signal and vise-versa.
I read back through ADV7403 & AD725 datasheets and found an s-video capture that shows colorburst. Component does not modulate color like composite and s-video do in convoluted NTSC and PAL space. Doesn't need the colorburst since it splits up chroma. I was wrong here. It does, however, need to use NTSC or PAL horizontal and vertical sync timing + resolution like RGB consoles do below HD resolutions.

50/60 hz is well-known difference in vertical sync aka frames per second. The NTSC horizontal sync is 15.734 khz and PAL is 15.625 khz. While analog video has inherent tolerance such as 60.1 hz from NES and SNES, the 109 hz difference is significant. PAL displays usually support NTSC, so I think 'universal component compatibility' is about either Standard Definition NTSC display supporting PAL sync timing...or PAL display supporting component as a format.

I would say component is the least documented and understood format, stuck in the late CRT and early HD TV era. Glad we could shed some light on this. 8)
ldeveraux
Posts: 1113
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:20 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ldeveraux »

bobrocks95 wrote:
TCL was a good budget brand for gaming TVs last time I was looking. They had lower lag than Vizios at the time. Rtings also seems to be recommending some cheap Hisense TVs for gaming.
Just like I thought the LG C1 was, the TCL actually have different model numbers even for the same year. Any you recommend in 65"?
User avatar
VEGETA
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 10:40 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

NewSchoolBoxer wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Does anyone know if a CRT's orientation (North-South vs East-West) affects the convergence? I know it's a factor for overall geometry, but I finally got permalloy strips to try and improve my dynamic convergence and was wondering if orientation will affect it afterwards.
VEGETA wrote:I meant by component is universal is that as long as the screen supports 15khz, it will take and display everything. ntsc\pal are encoded signals, while RGB is just straight color channels. YPbPr is taken from that RGB which is universal as you mentioned.

the way I understand it, is that 50hz and 60hz are references mainly to pal and ntsc encoded videos but if you have rgb video converted to component and the monitor accepts 15khz then it should be able to display it properly. I am open to other tested opinions of say feeding rgb or component which is 50 hz to a 60hz crt and see what happens.
I believe you're right that YPbPr will not have any color encoding problems between NTSC and PAL, since chroma information is on separate data lines. There should only be a problem with CVBS. However, a 60Hz CRT is definitely not going to like receiving a 50Hz signal and vise-versa.
I read back through ADV7403 & AD725 datasheets and found an s-video capture that shows colorburst. Component does not modulate color like composite and s-video do in convoluted NTSC and PAL space. Doesn't need the colorburst since it splits up chroma. I was wrong here. It does, however, need to use NTSC or PAL horizontal and vertical sync timing + resolution like RGB consoles do below HD resolutions.

50/60 hz is well-known difference in vertical sync aka frames per second. The NTSC horizontal sync is 15.734 khz and PAL is 15.625 khz. While analog video has inherent tolerance such as 60.1 hz from NES and SNES, the 109 hz difference is significant. PAL displays usually support NTSC, so I think 'universal component compatibility' is about either Standard Definition NTSC display supporting PAL sync timing...or PAL display supporting component as a format.

I would say component is the least documented and understood format, stuck in the late CRT and early HD TV era. Glad we could shed some light on this. 8)

well, most CRTs which support component are 50hz and 60hz tolerant, ntsc\pal\secam tolerant too. at least mine this way... so we can safely assume component to be universal or to be precise "standard-less" since it doesn't modulate color or have colorburst period or so. just pure luma with sync + pb + pr.

S-video luma can work on component for sure but s-video itself is via a standard and has modulation since it is a better version of composite video. I mean they just split the planes in order to enhance quality but still same standard.

Component on the other hand is derived from original RGB which both has no standard or encoding. which means universal and standard-less. I hope someone with more knowledge can shed more light on this.
User avatar
maxtherabbit
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

bobrocks95 wrote:Does anyone know if a CRT's orientation (North-South vs East-West) affects the convergence? I know it's a factor for overall geometry, but I finally got permalloy strips to try and improve my dynamic convergence and was wondering if orientation will affect it afterwards.
I would think any change in "big picture" magnetism would affect all 3 guns uniformly and not change convergence
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

VEGETA wrote: well, most CRTs which support component are 50hz and 60hz tolerant, ntsc\pal\secam tolerant too. at least mine this way... so we can safely assume component to be universal or to be precise "standard-less" since it doesn't modulate color or have colorburst period or so. just pure luma with sync + pb + pr.

S-video luma can work on component for sure but s-video itself is via a standard and has modulation since it is a better version of composite video. I mean they just split the planes in order to enhance quality but still same standard.

Component on the other hand is derived from original RGB which both has no standard or encoding. which means universal and standard-less. I hope someone with more knowledge can shed more light on this.
edited to add diagram text
I can give an overview. Feed a CRT Composite video. First step is separating luma from chroma and this is not a perfect process. Feeding S-Video instead skips the luma-chroma separation because they are already on separate wires, which is why it looks so much better. I believe Commodore people were the first to offer S-Video in the late 80s and JVC gave it its name with the introduction of S-VHS.

Next step in the television is converting the separated Y and C to YPbPr aka Y, Pb-Y, Pr-Y aka Component. In other words, it's a natural step in displaying Composite and S-Video versus being derived from RGB. Its digital form, YCbCr has existed since the 80s for television broadcasters in SDI before we got it in HDMI (with HDCP).

Here is a block diagram from Texas Instruments showing Composite and S-Video being converted in YPbPr at the YUV stage before being digitized into YCbCr. The YUV is a color space used in PAL while NTSC used the very similar YIQ.
Spoiler
Image
Composite Processor
Figure 2-3 is a block diagram of the TVP5146M2 digital composite video processing circuit. This circuit
receives a digitized composite or S-Video signal from the ADCs and performs Y/C separation (bypassed
for S-Video input), chroma demodulation for PAL/NTSC and SECAM, and YUV signal enhancements.
The 10-bit composite video is multiplied by the subcarrier signals in the quadrature demodulator to
generate color difference signals U and V. The U and V signals are then sent to low-pass filters to achieve
the desired bandwidth. An adaptive 5-line comb filter separates UV from Y based on the unique property
of color phase shifts from line to line. The chroma is remodulated through a quadrature modulator and
subtracted from line-delayed composite video to generate luma. This form of Y/C separation is completely
complementary, thus there is no loss of information. However, in some applications, it is desirable to limit
the U/V bandwidth to avoid crosstalk. In that case, notch filters can be turned on. To accommodate some
viewing preferences, a peaking filter is also available in the luma path. Contrast, brightness, sharpness,
hue, and saturation controls are programmable through the host port.
Skipping the luma-chroma to YPbPr process is why Component looks a little better than S-Video. Next step is amping the signal and matrix math-ing into RGB. The amped R, G and B feed the respective red, green and blue electron guns. Not covering gamma correction or lookup tables for simplicity.

Here are active filter circuits to convert YPbPr to RGB and RGB to YPbPr from Linear Technology in 1994. This is the "matrix math" you see mentioned. More than one possible setup. You'd be surprised how many active filter topologies there are.
Spoiler
Image
Figure 17 shows LT6552 amplifiers connected to convert
component video(YPBPR) to RGB. This circuit maps the sync
on Y to all three outputs, so if a separate sync connection is
needed by the destination device (e.g. studio monitor), any
of the R, G, or B channels may be simply looped-through
the sync input (i.e. set ZIN for sync input to unterminated).

This particular configuration takes advantage of the unique
dual-differential inputs of the LT6552 to accomplish multiple
arithmetic functions in each stage, thereby minimizing the
amplifier count. This configuration also processes the wider-
bandwidth Y signal through just a single amplification level,
maximizing the available performance.
Spoiler
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

Sorry, I edited out the actual helpful part about Component by mistake. Maxim Integrated people have a nice overview of analog video. From that is a chart showing the voltages differences in the three flavors of 480i/576i Component:
Spoiler
Image
Even though Component is demodulated from NTSC/PAL mess, the Y is identical to the respective S-Video and the PbPr voltage differences are very significant. I can tell you from changing the Component setting on my L2 from SMPTE to Japanese BetaCam and feeding US NTSC that the colors are off, with some colors looking more wrong than others.

DVD players and video game consoles aren't held to television broadcast limits and can make use of the full allotted Component bandwidth of 6.75 MHz. This is still low enough for a typical video LPF of 8.5-9 MHz cutoff.

480p/576p Component timing is derived from NTSC/PAL but 720p/1080i and the elusive 1080p Component should be universal standards like RGB.

I found this amazing NTSC demodulation block diagram from Extron. Same process for PAL except for YIQ vs YUV color spaces. Component comes naturally from splitting up Chroma. Phew think I'm done. Last thing I wonder is which consoles do 4:4:4 analog Component and which 4:2:2.
Image
Issac Zachary
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Issac Zachary »

Are there any SNES cart SD or other storage media still available that are any good? I see the FX PAK Pro looks good but is no longer made. :?:
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Issac Zachary wrote:Are there any SNES cart SD or other storage media still available that are any good? I see the FX PAK Pro looks good but is no longer made. :?:
It's available at Krikzz's website right now, supply has been iffy due to FPGA shortages and war in Ukraine. I'd recommend the Super Everdrive X5 if you want a cheaper option, the X6 doesn't offer a whole lot unless you really want to play Super Mario Kart.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
Issac Zachary
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Issac Zachary »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Issac Zachary wrote:Are there any SNES cart SD or other storage media still available that are any good? I see the FX PAK Pro looks good but is no longer made. :?:
It's available at Krikzz's website right now, supply has been iffy due to FPGA shortages and war in Ukraine. I'd recommend the Super Everdrive X5 if you want a cheaper option, the X6 doesn't offer a whole lot unless you really want to play Super Mario Kart.
bobrocks95,

you rock!

I don't know why I've googled these several times for several months now and hadn't ever gotten a site that showed them. Then there's an FXPAK going for like $400 on eBay...
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Issac Zachary wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Issac Zachary wrote:Are there any SNES cart SD or other storage media still available that are any good? I see the FX PAK Pro looks good but is no longer made. :?:
It's available at Krikzz's website right now, supply has been iffy due to FPGA shortages and war in Ukraine. I'd recommend the Super Everdrive X5 if you want a cheaper option, the X6 doesn't offer a whole lot unless you really want to play Super Mario Kart.
bobrocks95,

you rock!

I don't know why I've googled these several times for several months now and hadn't ever gotten a site that showed them. Then there's an FXPAK going for like $400 on eBay...
You're not crazy or anything, I think they were just very recently restocked. I remembered a tweet about it and it looks like June 7th they were added back to the site. Definitely a good piece of kit but I dunno about $400 haha.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
monsterm90
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:15 am
Location: JKT ID

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by monsterm90 »

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post in this forum, so i apologize if i did it wrong.

My friend just gave me his Sony PVM-9042QM, and i think it's a PVM European model.
According to the spec sheet; https://pro.sony/s3/cms-static-content/ ... 058221.pdf
(correct me if i'm wrong) this monitor should be able to handle NTSC (which i assume any 60hz should work).

As i expected, i able to get clear and stable picture with 50hz signal and resolutions (tested using crt emudriver and crt-pi), but different story with the 60hz content, i tested the monitor with crt-pi and ntsc playstaion 1 rgb, the monitor were strobing and looks like not sync properly.
Here's the video i uploaded on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR6tpLM2M8o

And of course, tinkering with the v-hold knob was not fixing the issue :')

Do you guys think it caused by the fact that this monitor is stuck and limited for 50z content only,
or can it be fixed by replacing some of capacitor inside? (i do comfortable with soldering, if it's necessary)

for add information, equipment that i use during test:
1) playstation 1 ntsc + ps1 scart rgb cable + scart to 4 bnc breakout
2) PC + crt emudriver and Rpi3b with CRT-Pi RGB OS + VGA666, combined with these following transcoders;
-Tim Worthington's VGA to Scart sync combiner
-Jam's VGA to Ypbpr transcoder
-Extron RGB 580xi

Any comments and inputs would be appreciated, Thank you masters.
User avatar
Lopenator
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:40 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Lopenator »

Space
Last edited by Lopenator on Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
VEGETA
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 10:40 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

Hello,

I'd like to ask about Sony CRT features which enhances sharpness and quality, my CRT is SW292M80 29" Trinitron WEGA SD CRT.

I read about velocity modulation or so... what about this setting? should it be on or off for best quality?

please advise!
User avatar
VEGETA
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 10:40 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

Konsolkongen wrote:
VEGETA wrote: what settings you suggest?

edit: i have modified sharpness to be just 25 instead of 50. Now halos do not exist, increased the brightness a bit.

edit 2: dreamcast is by scart rgb to rgb2comp to crt via excellent component cables. best of the best connections.
What is the range for saturation and how high is it currently set?

After reducing sharpness, do the Dreamcast logo (the blue swirl) still have black edges? It should be one solid color, like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whrmtU8MY44
i read about something called velocity modulation in service menu, is that the setting needed?

also, I have "intelligent picture" set to on and it says in manual that it enhances the quality. any knowledge about that?

when I get back home in 4 days or so, I will open service menu but can you or anyone explain the settings related to sharpness and quality and what they mean? neo-geo forums famous post just lists them without explanation.
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

monsterm90 wrote:Hi Everyone,
This is my first post in this forum, so i apologize if i did it wrong.

My friend just gave me his Sony PVM-9042QM, and i think it's a PVM European model.
According to the spec sheet; https://pro.sony/s3/cms-static-content/ ... 058221.pdf
(correct me if i'm wrong) this monitor should be able to handle NTSC (which i assume any 60hz should work).

As i expected, i able to get clear and stable picture with 50hz signal and resolutions (tested using crt emudriver and crt-pi), but different story with the 60hz content, i tested the monitor with crt-pi and ntsc playstaion 1 rgb, the monitor were strobing and looks like not sync properly.
Here's the video i uploaded on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR6tpLM2M8o

And of course, tinkering with the v-hold knob was not fixing the issue :')

Do you guys think it caused by the fact that this monitor is stuck and limited for 50z content only,
or can it be fixed by replacing some of capacitor inside? (i do comfortable with soldering, if it's necessary)

for add information, equipment that i use during test:
1) playstation 1 ntsc + ps1 scart rgb cable + scart to 4 bnc breakout
2) PC + crt emudriver and Rpi3b with CRT-Pi RGB OS + VGA666, combined with these following transcoders;
-Tim Worthington's VGA to Scart sync combiner
-Jam's VGA to Ypbpr transcoder
-Extron RGB 580xi

Any comments and inputs would be appreciated, Thank you masters.
Spec sheet does indeed show NTSC support. I think the trick is that Component and RGB are not NTSC (or PAL) so they don't have to work. They don't pass through NTSC/PAL demodulation circuitry.
NTSC video game console is going to use NTSC horizontal sync of 15.734 kHz and 59.94 or 60 Hz vertical sync for its Component and RGB, while typical PAL is 15.625 kHz and 50 Hz. With Emudriver, don't use 15k exact or PAL 15625 on NTSC. Too far out of spec.
(Most retro video game consoles use off spec sync values like NTSC NES and SNES at 60.1 Hz but my L2 PVM accepts them.)

Ideas:
Try NTSC Composite or S-Video. I predict no strobing, which would seem to prove Component and RGB need PAL timings. If strobing, something in PVM can probably be fixed.
You have CRT Emudriver so that's very helpful. PAL is weird enough to have hybrid standards with NTSC timings. Can try PAL-60, else try Component or RGB with 59.94 Hz if you tried 60 Hz, or the reverse. Maybe one strobes and the other doesn't.
User avatar
monsterm90
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:15 am
Location: JKT ID

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by monsterm90 »

NewSchoolBoxer wrote:
monsterm90 wrote:Hi Everyone,
This is my first post in this forum, so i apologize if i did it wrong.

My friend just gave me his Sony PVM-9042QM, and i think it's a PVM European model.
According to the spec sheet; https://pro.sony/s3/cms-static-content/ ... 058221.pdf
(correct me if i'm wrong) this monitor should be able to handle NTSC (which i assume any 60hz should work).

As i expected, i able to get clear and stable picture with 50hz signal and resolutions (tested using crt emudriver and crt-pi), but different story with the 60hz content, i tested the monitor with crt-pi and ntsc playstaion 1 rgb, the monitor were strobing and looks like not sync properly.
Here's the video i uploaded on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR6tpLM2M8o

And of course, tinkering with the v-hold knob was not fixing the issue :')

Do you guys think it caused by the fact that this monitor is stuck and limited for 50z content only,
or can it be fixed by replacing some of capacitor inside? (i do comfortable with soldering, if it's necessary)

for add information, equipment that i use during test:
1) playstation 1 ntsc + ps1 scart rgb cable + scart to 4 bnc breakout
2) PC + crt emudriver and Rpi3b with CRT-Pi RGB OS + VGA666, combined with these following transcoders;
-Tim Worthington's VGA to Scart sync combiner
-Jam's VGA to Ypbpr transcoder
-Extron RGB 580xi

Any comments and inputs would be appreciated, Thank you masters.
Spec sheet does indeed show NTSC support. I think the trick is that Component and RGB are not NTSC (or PAL) so they don't have to work. They don't pass through NTSC/PAL demodulation circuitry.
NTSC video game console is going to use NTSC horizontal sync of 15.734 kHz and 59.94 or 60 Hz vertical sync for its Component and RGB, while typical PAL is 15.625 kHz and 50 Hz. With Emudriver, don't use 15k exact or PAL 15625 on NTSC. Too far out of spec.
(Most retro video game consoles use off spec sync values like NTSC NES and SNES at 60.1 Hz but my L2 PVM accepts them.)

Ideas:
Try NTSC Composite or S-Video. I predict no strobing, which would seem to prove Component and RGB need PAL timings. If strobing, something in PVM can probably be fixed.
You have CRT Emudriver so that's very helpful. PAL is weird enough to have hybrid standards with NTSC timings. Can try PAL-60, else try Component or RGB with 59.94 Hz if you tried 60 Hz, or the reverse. Maybe one strobes and the other doesn't.
Hi Sir, thanks for giving me the idea. unfortunately i still not able to get a stable picture via composite, tested with a ps1 ntsc. https://youtube.com/shorts/WHWCcJ7g4N8?feature=share

i probably gonna open the case up later to inspect the solder joints on the boards. wish me luck!
User avatar
VEGETA
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 10:40 am

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by VEGETA »

What is the service menu settings to enhance picture quality and sharpness of Sony CRT KV SW292M80?

stuff like disabling velocity modulation and so on, I couldn't find them. too many options, more than those mentioned in that neo-geo forums.
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

monsterm90 wrote:Hi Everyone,
This is my first post in this forum, so i apologize if i did it wrong.

...

Hi Sir, thanks for giving me the idea. unfortunately i still not able to get a stable picture via composite, tested with a ps1 ntsc. https://youtube.com/shorts/WHWCcJ7g4N8?feature=share

i probably gonna open the case up later to inspect the solder joints on the boards. wish me luck!
I'm not as smart as I thought I was. At least then you have potential for everything working! Thanks for checking that the ps1 ntsc strobes.

You're doing it right. :D This is a hardcore scene and I think the basic rule in such places is the person asking the question making a basic effort on their own first. Linking the television manual you read through is great. If consumer set manual doesn't exist online, fine, just say that. Providing video footage goes above and beyond. Threads where someone says console + television doesn't work and nothing else, I really don't want to brute force list everything that could be wrong.
KPackratt2k
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:02 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by KPackratt2k »

Do the Extron BNC Matrix Switchers output TTL level CSYNC on the sync output even if your input devices have attenuated sync, or does that problem only occur with the VGA switchers? I was thinking about getting an Extron BNC switcher eventually for use with my consoles on an RGB modded consumer TV, but I wasn't sure if the BNC switches need attenuation to work with consumer TVs like the VGA switches do, or if it just passes the sync signal through as it is without any conversion to TTL.

If it does need to be attenuated, would putting a 470 ohm resistor in my sync output cable from the Extron to the TV be enough or do I also need to add a 10 uF capacitor?
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

KPackratt2k wrote:Do the Extron BNC Matrix Switchers output TTL level CSYNC on the sync output even if your input devices have attenuated sync, or does that problem only occur with the VGA switchers? I was thinking about getting an Extron BNC switcher eventually for use with my consoles on an RGB modded consumer TV, but I wasn't sure if the BNC switches need attenuation to work with consumer TVs like the VGA switches do, or if it just passes the sync signal through as it is without any conversion to TTL.

If it does need to be attenuated, would putting a 470 ohm resistor in my sync output cable from the Extron to the TV be enough or do I also need to add a 10 uF capacitor?

Whatever you run on the H and/or V sync lines gets boosted to around 5vpp. Most people just use a single 470Ω (that's what I use when running to my OSSC or Framemeister).
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

I'm digging down the RF (lol), Composite and S-Video capture rabbit hole. I got GV-USB2 for Composite + S-Video that forcibly de-interlaces to 4:2:2 YUV. Do you know if any DVD recorders record 240p accurately, or at least in 480i that can be fixed or de-interlaced the way I want in editing? I presume they also record in 4:2:2 YUV, which is fine.

I think I want a VHS+DVD combo recorder for being at latest stage of technology still meant for analog inputs. Some models have HDMI output but I'd be hesitant to trust that process.

Yes, I read the Digital FAQ guides geared for $600 JVC S-VHS player + $600 TBC device geared for wonky VHS specs. I'm not digging that deep. They diss DVD recorder option but don't prove anything.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Konsolkongen »

VEGETA wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
VEGETA wrote: what settings you suggest?

edit: i have modified sharpness to be just 25 instead of 50. Now halos do not exist, increased the brightness a bit.

edit 2: dreamcast is by scart rgb to rgb2comp to crt via excellent component cables. best of the best connections.
What is the range for saturation and how high is it currently set?

After reducing sharpness, do the Dreamcast logo (the blue swirl) still have black edges? It should be one solid color, like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whrmtU8MY44
i read about something called velocity modulation in service menu, is that the setting needed?

also, I have "intelligent picture" set to on and it says in manual that it enhances the quality. any knowledge about that?

when I get back home in 4 days or so, I will open service menu but can you or anyone explain the settings related to sharpness and quality and what they mean? neo-geo forums famous post just lists them without explanation.
I don't know about service menu settings for your TV. Sorry.

The intelligent picture setting sounds like marketing bullshit to me. A lot of products boast about having features that enhance or improve the source material, but generally speaking anything named intelligent, dynamic or enhancer should be turned off, because they mess with the source and often they end up making everything worse.

My Yamaha AVR has an option to enhance compressed music, but I would never use it. Sure it does sound a little different, but it probably just boosts the highs a bit. It has no idea how the uncompressed version should sound, how could it possibly? It's much more likely that it will cause more harm.

Image
User avatar
kitty666cats
Posts: 1270
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:03 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

NewSchoolBoxer wrote:I'm digging down the RF (lol), Composite and S-Video capture rabbit hole. I got GV-USB2 for Composite + S-Video that forcibly de-interlaces to 4:2:2 YUV. Do you know if any DVD recorders record 240p accurately, or at least in 480i that can be fixed or de-interlaced the way I want in editing? I presume they also record in 4:2:2 YUV, which is fine.

I think I want a VHS+DVD combo recorder for being at latest stage of technology still meant for analog inputs. Some models have HDMI output but I'd be hesitant to trust that process.

Yes, I read the Digital FAQ guides geared for $600 JVC S-VHS player + $600 TBC device geared for wonky VHS specs. I'm not digging that deep. They diss DVD recorder option but don't prove anything.
DVD Recorders that properly handle 240p may not even exist, heh - I am not aware of any, though it’s not like there has been comprehensive testing.

Here is a list of units to consider looking for, may not fit all your prerequisites but they ain’t too shabby:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-c ... t-dvd.html
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Do you know if any DVD recorders record 240p accurately, or at least in 480i that can be fixed or de-interlaced the way I want in editing? I presume they also record in 4:2:2 YUV, which is fine.
240p is a 15khz input signal. DVD is recorded in 15khz as well. All the DVD recorders I used do (of course) record in 480i, but don't really alter anything except adding an offset to every other field. That's pretty easily fixable if you ever want to take your recordings and process them for further upscaling or re-encoding.

DVD recorders are 4:2:0 though (since the MPEG2 codec on DVDs is) and you will notice that vertical reduction in color resolution.
User avatar
kitty666cats
Posts: 1270
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:03 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by kitty666cats »

I forgot to add, the units with that chipset in the link I posted should all be able to convert composite & S-Video inputs (like, from external sources) to component out. Kinda fun to mess around with. I used to own one of the JVC combo VCR/DVD decks listed, it had the option of being able to play back VHS tapes via component at either 480i or 480p - if you had the remote. Funny seeing a combo deck with “VHS Progressive Scan” written on it, lol. The built-in line doubler wasn’t anything at all special, but that’s to be expected of something old & consumer-grade.

They’re nothing all that special (as Fudoh mentioned, there is a loss of Chroma resolution), but they are fun. Any Panasonic brand combo deck with HDMI out is certainly worth keeping an eye out for, they can do 480i HDMI out which is nice. Most go up to 720p and 1080i on the HDMI out, some do 1080p too. There’s no reason to avoid combo decks with HDMI, btw. I don’t know why you wouldn’t trust that, it’s a pretty great feature to have on-hand (and those units will allow VHS playback via any other output, too).

Combo decks unsurprisingly aren’t the best for capturing, but they’re pretty solid. A Panasonic DMR-EZ48V is a pretty popular one that’s gonna give you plenty adequate results if you aren’t looking for perfection! :)
User avatar
NewSchoolBoxer
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:53 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

Thanks you two! I'm pleased I could get some expert advice. I did some reading and confirmed that DVDs must encode in 4:2:0 but can store as 4:2:2 MPEG2 on a computer file. I realize that NTSC/PAL is already chroma-limited but that's not the same as chroma subsampling. Blu-ray players also stuck at 4:2:0 decoding but with higher bitrates, maybe that's better to burn to.

The Digital FAQ list of recommended DVD recorders is amazing. Just unfortunate how most of site's reviewed technology stops at 2004. I see PAL JVC DR-MH30S, DR-MH20S and DR-200MHSE HDD models can record every analog signal in existence, including RF, Component over RCA and RGB over SCART. On UK eBay now with remote for £49/$59.

I think their emphasis on Windows XP capture cards/TV tuners 99% of the population won't touch is self-serving when they market VHS to [4:2:0] DVD services. I saw a video review of the ATI All-in-Wonder HD card running on Vista and a quick check showed 64-bit Vista drivers for all the Radeon 9600 and later cards. Vista is no 7 but opens up more motherboards for dual booting.

They list NTSC-only Hauppauge 610 USB from 2010 but leave out it records in 4:2:2 MPEG2. No mention that their link is Amazon affiliate nor mention of popular GV-USB2 from 2013 that does PAL, SECAM and NTSC with static and motion-adaptive de-interlacing. Look at me complaining about almost every VHS preservation guide in English.
kitty666cats wrote: They’re nothing all that special (as Fudoh mentioned, there is a loss of Chroma resolution), but they are fun. Any Panasonic brand combo deck with HDMI out is certainly worth keeping an eye out for, they can do 480i HDMI out which is nice. Most go up to 720p and 1080i on the HDMI out, some do 1080p too. There’s no reason to avoid combo decks with HDMI, btw. I don’t know why you wouldn’t trust that, it’s a pretty great feature to have on-hand (and those units will allow VHS playback via any other output, too).
My mental gymnastics is if HDMI output was added, it's an era further away from maximizing RF/Composite/S-Video quality. But I like your idea for 480i HDMI out and S-Video input to Component output is sick when my LCD doesn't have S-Video. I want a hardcore option with accurate capture and then an easy to use one for playing/streaming.
Issac Zachary
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Issac Zachary »

Edit:

I decided to make this subject (N64) it's own thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=70272
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Any Super NT owners who were disappointed with it? Probably going to get one if they restock it this year, but Analogue has given up on funding firmware updates since a while back it looks like- any big remaining glitches or missing features?

I am disappointed to see it still has no option to output the original refresh rate without buffering. The unbuffered mode underclocks to hit 60Hz apparently.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
strayan
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by strayan »

Does anyone know if there are any native 1080p displays (either TV’s or monitors) that will accept 4k signals?
Post Reply