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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:02 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 139
What exactly is the difference between the HDMI RGB 444 format and DVI RGB 444 format on an Extron 301 HD? My TV will not display the former but has no problems displaying the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:46 pm 



Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 37
I'm in the market right now to buy a Japanese PS2.

There is a seller on ebay selling them (just the console, no cables or controllers) for $40 + $15 shipping, options of model SCPH-70000 or SCPH-77000

Is one model better than the other?
Is this a good deal?
Is a US power cord compatible with a JP console?
Are US controllers compatible with the console?
Memory cards?

Any advice is appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:13 pm 


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strayan wrote:
What exactly is the difference between the HDMI RGB 444 format and DVI RGB 444 format on an Extron 301 HD? My TV will not display the former but has no problems displaying the latter.


It's hard to say what's up with your specific display without all the specific details and such, but DVI and HDMI are different standards. HDMI is electrically compatible with DVI, but not all DVI is HDMI compatible. I know the 301 HD has a whole lot of on screen settings, maybe just needs adjusting something HDMI related? https://www.extron.com/download/files/u ... 8-01_C.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:29 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 139
vol.2 wrote:
strayan wrote:
What exactly is the difference between the HDMI RGB 444 format and DVI RGB 444 format on an Extron 301 HD? My TV will not display the former but has no problems displaying the latter.


It's hard to say what's up with your specific display without all the specific details and such, but DVI and HDMI are different standards. HDMI is electrically compatible with DVI, but not all DVI is HDMI compatible. I know the 301 HD has a whole lot of on screen settings, maybe just needs adjusting something HDMI related? https://www.extron.com/download/files/u ... 8-01_C.pdf


Yeah the 301 allows you to set the HDMI format to HDMI RGB 444 format and DVI RGB 444. I just wanted to know how the signals differ (and what the cheapest way to convert one to the other is - a Dr HDMI works but they’re expensive).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:03 am 


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Location: Germany
Quote:
Yeah the 301 allows you to set the HDMI format to HDMI RGB 444 format and DVI RGB 444. I just wanted to know how the signals differ (and what the cheapest way to convert one to the other is - a Dr HDMI works but they’re expensive).

do you get audio with the output set to DVI? If you don't, that's the main difference. If you do (which means that the Extron doesn't REALLY stick to DVI standards), then it really doesn't matter. Some compatibility quirks in terms of infoframe markers or flags.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:56 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 139
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Yeah the 301 allows you to set the HDMI format to HDMI RGB 444 format and DVI RGB 444. I just wanted to know how the signals differ (and what the cheapest way to convert one to the other is - a Dr HDMI works but they’re expensive).

do you get audio with the output set to DVI? If you don't, that's the main difference. If you do (which means that the Extron doesn't REALLY stick to DVI standards), then it really doesn't matter. Some compatibility quirks in terms of infoframe markers or flags.


Not at home to test the audio when set to DVI but there is definitely something different about the video output (will take photos) and I’ve discovered the same issue on my DVDO VP30.

The output on the Extron when set to HDMI RGB 444 looks the same as the output DVDO: on test patterns (on my plasma) the horizontal timing is one ?sub-pixel off when set to the TVs native resolution. As soon as I switch the extron to DVI RGB 444 the problem goes away. Similarly as soon as I add the Dr HDMI between the DVDO and the plasma the problem vanishes.

There are definitely different markers or flags being sent but I can’t figure out what.


Last edited by strayan on Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:29 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1306
What are all the advantages and disadvantages of a Rev. 0 Dreamcast vs. a Rev. 1 Dreamcast?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:40 am 


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Quote:
The output on the Extron when set to HDMI RGB 444 looks the same as the output DVDO: on test patterns (on my plasma) the horizontal timing is one ?sub-pixel off when set to the TVs native resolution. As soon as I switch the extron to DVI RGB 444 the problem goes away. Similarly as soon as I add the Dr HDMI between the DVDO and the plasma the problem vanishes.

both are full 4:4:4, but it sounds as if your TV convert one format into 4:2:2 for further processing. On the DVDO this happens internally in the processor already, but the Extron offers a full 4:4:4 processing path (input, scaling, output).

Can't say that I ever saw the problem on any of my displays.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 139
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
The output on the Extron when set to HDMI RGB 444 looks the same as the output DVDO: on test patterns (on my plasma) the horizontal timing is one ?sub-pixel off when set to the TVs native resolution. As soon as I switch the extron to DVI RGB 444 the problem goes away. Similarly as soon as I add the Dr HDMI between the DVDO and the plasma the problem vanishes.

both are full 4:4:4, but it sounds as if your TV convert one format into 4:2:2 for further processing. On the DVDO this happens internally in the processor already, but the Extron offers a full 4:4:4 processing path (input, scaling, output).

Can't say that I ever saw the problem on any of my displays.


It's definitely a quirk with my NEC plasma XR5. If I connect my PC directly to the TV via a HDMI to HDMI cable I can reproduce the problem as well (and I've yet to figure out a solution to that). Gotta have something to do with the flags (whatever they are). Maybe I'll get in touch with Extron to see how their DVI spec differs to the HDMI one.

-----

On another subject, will a VP50 Pro downscale 1080p content? My VP30 won't scale 1080p at all (seems to only passthrough).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:30 pm 


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Quote:
On another subject, will a VP50 Pro downscale 1080p content? My VP30 won't scale 1080p at all (seems to only passthrough).

yes, the maximum the VP30 actually processes is 1080i (or SXGA going by the VESA formats). The VP50 processes 1080p60 signals just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:18 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 975
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
On another subject, will a VP50 Pro downscale 1080p content? My VP30 won't scale 1080p at all (seems to only passthrough).

yes, the maximum the VP30 actually processes is 1080i (or SXGA going by the VESA formats). The VP50 processes 1080p60 signals just fine.


While we're talking about these, does the VP50 or the VP50 Pro need the AB-102 card to interlace the best they can? Or is the functionality of that card already built into the VP50's? I know the VP30 needs that card to interlace the best it can.

Is there any difference between the ABT-102 card, and the ABT-102D?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:30 pm 


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The ABT102 introduced ABT's new deinterlacing and scaling engine to machines still equipped with the Silicon Image 504 (VP20 and VP30). The VP50 added the ABT102's function to the main FPGA already and added proper 1080i on top. The 50Pro added a revamped scaling engine plus a new sharpening engine (edge and detail enhancement) to that.

The Edge moved the 50Pro's FPGA design into an ASIC design, which was used once more in the iScan Duo.

Quote:
Is there any difference between the ABT-102 card, and the ABT-102D?

no, to my knowledge there's just one version of the upgrade board.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:53 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 975
Fudoh wrote:
The ABT102 introduced ABT's new deinterlacing and scaling engine to machines still equipped with the Silicon Image 504 (VP20 and VP30). The VP50 added the ABT102's function to the main FPGA already and added proper 1080i on top. The 50Pro added a revamped scaling engine plus a new sharpening engine (edge and detail enhancement) to that.


Cool, thanks. Still contemplating getting one of these to mess around with (probably a VP50 Pro if I do).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:06 pm 



Joined: 23 Aug 2019
Posts: 2
I recently seen a youtube video of someone demonstrating their modded xbox 360 with a complete backup catalog of 36o Shmup titles. Can anyone recommend a reputable hardware modder preferably someone from this shmup community?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:01 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 261
I see banding in my XBOX's generic component cable. What is the recommended cable to buy these days? The original Hi-Def kit, or something that can be had cheaper?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:04 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1425
ldeveraux wrote:
I see banding in my XBOX's generic component cable. What is the recommended cable to buy these days? The original Hi-Def kit, or something that can be had cheaper?

The XOSVP is the thing to get (also comes in kit form). Potential downsides are that it seems to be perpetually sold out (As in every time I've visited the store page, it's been unavailable), and it only offers TOSLINK for audio, so you'd need a TOSLINK to stereo RCA adapter if you wanted analogue audio from it.

Failing that, I would recommend tracking down a Microsoft-branded Xbox HD AV Pack (Not to be confused with the Advanced AV Pack, which only has composite and S-Video), either the breakout box or the far-rarer cable version. Compared to the XOSVP, they're more expensive, due to their increasing rarity, and they offer both TOSLINK and analogue audio output instead of just the TOSLINK on the XOSVP. I've read that the original cables kind of suck (easily remedied) and that they don't provide a perfect image, but I haven't seen any photographic comparisons to back up either of those claims.

I've had one of the HD AV Packs for a few years now, and the only complaint I might have is the bulk the breakout box adds (probably about the size of an Xbox 360 external PSU, if it had a bunch of AV cables coming out the side of it). If you decide to go shopping on eBay for one of these, get a good look at the photographs; when I was looking for one, I saw one or two that were not properly cared for, and had rust on the connector shrouds. Also, don't be afraid to buy one without the original cables; it's pretty easy to get a 5x RCA component + stereo cable from places like Amazon and Monoprice (although Monoprice's cables, weirdly, have left and right audio on complete opposite ends of the cable for some reason).

Finally, you might be interested in the Pound HDMI cable for the Xbox. From what I've seen, it's a good-enough solution for most people who want to go straight to HDMI, and it's cheap. The downsides, as I understand them, are that it doesn't do any video filtering, so whatever noisy output from the console will be present; and, it digitizes the analogue stereo instead of using the S/PDIF audio, so you won't get 5.1 surround, if that's important to you (It is to me).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:45 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 261
nmalinoski wrote:
The XOSVP is the thing to get (also comes in kit form). Potential downsides are that it seems to be perpetually sold out (As in every time I've visited the store page, it's been unavailable), and it only offers TOSLINK for audio, so you'd need a TOSLINK to stereo RCA adapter if you wanted analogue audio from it.

Failing that, I would recommend tracking down a Microsoft-branded Xbox HD AV Pack (Not to be confused with the Advanced AV Pack, which only has composite and S-Video), either the breakout box or the far-rarer cable version. Compared to the XOSVP, they're more expensive, due to their increasing rarity, and they offer both TOSLINK and analogue audio output instead of just the TOSLINK on the XOSVP. I've read that the original cables kind of suck (easily remedied) and that they don't provide a perfect image, but I haven't seen any photographic comparisons to back up either of those claims.

I've had one of the HD AV Packs for a few years now, and the only complaint I might have is the bulk the breakout box adds (probably about the size of an Xbox 360 external PSU, if it had a bunch of AV cables coming out the side of it). If you decide to go shopping on eBay for one of these, get a good look at the photographs; when I was looking for one, I saw one or two that were not properly cared for, and had rust on the connector shrouds. Also, don't be afraid to buy one without the original cables; it's pretty easy to get a 5x RCA component + stereo cable from places like Amazon and Monoprice (although Monoprice's cables, weirdly, have left and right audio on complete opposite ends of the cable for some reason).

Finally, you might be interested in the Pound HDMI cable for the Xbox. From what I've seen, it's a good-enough solution for most people who want to go straight to HDMI, and it's cheap. The downsides, as I understand them, are that it doesn't do any video filtering, so whatever noisy output from the console will be present; and, it digitizes the analogue stereo instead of using the S/PDIF audio, so you won't get 5.1 surround, if that's important to you (It is to me).


I'm definitely not down with TOSLINK, red/white audio for my stream. I have a converter, but as you said, those are never in stock anyway, so that may be out. I've found a bunch of the OG breakout boxes (HD, not AV) going for ~$50 which isn't bad I guess. May try to score one. I actually have the Hyperkin HDMI cable, and it looks pretty good, but want a component termination and don't necessarily want to go through another converter to get there.

Is this the rarer version of the official XBOX component cable? I don't see TOSLINK on there... Not sure where to find that!
https://assemblergames.com/attachments/cable-jpg.16746/


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:56 pm 


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Posts: 874
ldeveraux wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
The XOSVP is the thing to get (also comes in kit form). Potential downsides are that it seems to be perpetually sold out (As in every time I've visited the store page, it's been unavailable), and it only offers TOSLINK for audio, so you'd need a TOSLINK to stereo RCA adapter if you wanted analogue audio from it.

Failing that, I would recommend tracking down a Microsoft-branded Xbox HD AV Pack (Not to be confused with the Advanced AV Pack, which only has composite and S-Video), either the breakout box or the far-rarer cable version. Compared to the XOSVP, they're more expensive, due to their increasing rarity, and they offer both TOSLINK and analogue audio output instead of just the TOSLINK on the XOSVP. I've read that the original cables kind of suck (easily remedied) and that they don't provide a perfect image, but I haven't seen any photographic comparisons to back up either of those claims.

I've had one of the HD AV Packs for a few years now, and the only complaint I might have is the bulk the breakout box adds (probably about the size of an Xbox 360 external PSU, if it had a bunch of AV cables coming out the side of it). If you decide to go shopping on eBay for one of these, get a good look at the photographs; when I was looking for one, I saw one or two that were not properly cared for, and had rust on the connector shrouds. Also, don't be afraid to buy one without the original cables; it's pretty easy to get a 5x RCA component + stereo cable from places like Amazon and Monoprice (although Monoprice's cables, weirdly, have left and right audio on complete opposite ends of the cable for some reason).

Finally, you might be interested in the Pound HDMI cable for the Xbox. From what I've seen, it's a good-enough solution for most people who want to go straight to HDMI, and it's cheap. The downsides, as I understand them, are that it doesn't do any video filtering, so whatever noisy output from the console will be present; and, it digitizes the analogue stereo instead of using the S/PDIF audio, so you won't get 5.1 surround, if that's important to you (It is to me).


I'm definitely not down with TOSLINK, red/white audio for my stream. I have a converter, but as you said, those are never in stock anyway, so that may be out. I've found a bunch of the OG breakout boxes (HD, not AV) going for ~$50 which isn't bad I guess. May try to score one. I actually have the Hyperkin HDMI cable, and it looks pretty good, but want a component termination and don't necessarily want to go through another converter to get there.

Is this the rarer version of the official XBOX component cable? I don't see TOSLINK on there... Not sure where to find that!
https://assemblergames.com/attachments/cable-jpg.16746/

It's there, the port is inside that lump on the console side connector


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:47 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1425
maxtherabbit wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
I'm definitely not down with TOSLINK, red/white audio for my stream. I have a converter, but as you said, those are never in stock anyway, so that may be out. I've found a bunch of the OG breakout boxes (HD, not AV) going for ~$50 which isn't bad I guess. May try to score one. I actually have the Hyperkin HDMI cable, and it looks pretty good, but want a component termination and don't necessarily want to go through another converter to get there.

Is this the rarer version of the official XBOX component cable? I don't see TOSLINK on there... Not sure where to find that!
https://assemblergames.com/attachments/cable-jpg.16746/

It's there, the port is inside that lump on the console side connector

That is precisely the cable I'm talking about. I might be overstating their rarity, but I've never seen one in the wild, and they rarely appear on eBay. If it's a reasonable price, I would pick it up.

And yes, that lump/protrusion on the console connector indeed houses the TOSLINK port as maxtherabbit pointed out.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:15 am 


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Posts: 457
It's not all that hard to take the official Xbox composite cable connector and splice it onto an official xbox 360 component cable, that will provide great video quality and both cables are common and cheap. There are guides online, and occasionally I see them pop up on Ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:29 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1306
What are all the advantages and disadvantages of a Rev. 0 Dreamcast vs. a Rev. 1 Dreamcast?
What are all the advantages and disadvantages of a Model 1 Sega Saturn vs. a Model 2 Sega Saturn?


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