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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:27 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1262
nmalinoski wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
So RGB cables from Retro-Acess will give me better picture quality than the official Nintendo Wii Component (YPbPr) Cables, despite being RGB and not YPbPr? Will there be any quality loss going from YCbCr -> RGB or YCbCr -> YPbPr -> RGB?

Unfortunately, a Wii RGB SCART cable wouldn't work. The first problem is that pins 8 and 10 on the AV port need to be bridged to get the console to output YPbPr, and the RGB SCART cable won't do that, because it needs those pins floating to get RGB from the console (a PAL one, anyway; the SCART cable would only get you composite video out of an NTSC Wii).

The second problem is that, even if you were to wire in a switch that bridged the mode pins to get the console to output YPbPr, the wiring is different. Normally, systems that can be configured to output both YPbPr and RGB put Y on G, Pb on B, and Pr on R, making it electrically RGsB; however, on the Wii, they're mapped Y=R, Pb=G, Pr=B, meaning your SCART cable would need something like a fat, inline 4T switch that could not only short pins 8 and 10 but also remap the YPbPr/RGB so that something like the OSSC could recognize the output.

So, really, I think your best bet is a straight Wii component cable. I expect Retro-Access is physically capable of manufacturing them; they'd just need to make a BNC-style cable, just terminated with RCA connectors. You should email them and ask if they'd be willing to make one for you.

I forgot to mention that the RGB cables from Retro-Access will be strictly BNC. No SCART.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:45 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1054
ldeveraux wrote:
...and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and likely never get a response from RA. Their cables are certainly top notch, but getting through to them with something other than an order is hit or miss. :wink: Definitely recommend those cables though.

That happened to me the first time I emailed, but I got a prompt response the second time. Sure, it's inconvenient, but, as far as I can tell, it's just one person, and I can't claim to know or understand their schedule.

ldeveraux wrote:
Wasn't there an official Wii component cable, or was that only the stupid expensive GC cable? I know I have on, but it may have been a cheapo Ebay purchase years ago. And to be fair, it looks like trash, so I should consider upgrading!

Both. The first-party Wii component cables were widely available, and should work well; and there was also the GameCube component cable that was only made available from Nintendo's website at a time when buying things on the internet was still fairly new, so those are now ridiculously rare and expensive (but now we have GCVideo solutions from multiple vendors for a fraction of the cost).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:14 pm 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 543
GeneraLight wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
Which brand of Wii Component Cables give the best picture quality?

Nintendo
Monster
Rocketfish
Nyko
Retro-Access
Other

HD Retrovision and Retro-Access are going to be as good as it gets

Thanks. HD Retrovision doesn't sell GameCube/Wii cables yet, and Retro-Access only sells RGB cables for the GameCube and Wii. So RGB cables from Retro-Acess will give me better picture quality than the official Nintendo Wii Component (YPbPr) Cables, despite being RGB and not YPbPr? Will there be any quality loss going from YCbCr -> RGB or YCbCr -> YPbPr -> RGB?

there is no quality loss going from YCbCr in the digital domain to RGB analog output

conversions between YPbPr and RGB in analog domain are also theoretically lossless when done properly

I'd just get the RA wii cables if you don't want to wait for HDRV, although they should be dropping any day now


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:37 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 338
In a thread titled Connecting console to the BNC outs in PVM’s yay or nay?, viletim said:

Quote:
You can do it if you like, but you may have some signal reflections or distortion. It's not likely to cause damage because 75 ohm video outputs (as well as line level audio outputs) are consumer proof. It's safe to short them to ground and to one another by design.


Tim knows more about electronics than I ever will, but I'd like to confirm: is it truly safe to say that all consoles are consumer proof enough not to suffer damage when their video and audio lines are shorted to each other?

I ask because I'm trying to build my own audio switcher for over a dozen consoles, and I want to know how dangerous cross-console shorting really is. Naturally, it's something I'm trying to avoid, but a short causing slight signal degradation and a short frying audio circuitry are two very different levels of danger to design around. Right now, I'm basing everything around a relatively cheap 2-pole 23-throw rotary switch, and I don't have confidence in it to keep each line isolated 100% of the time.

Many sources around the web warn against using a Y-splitter as a "Y-joiner" to connect two outputs to one input. Many recommend adding resistors in series with each output line before the merging point. I could actually do that inside of my audio switcher, although it would be a pain.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:54 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 338
(A bump/continuation of my previous post.)

This is my best understanding of the situation regarding mixing line-level audio outputs from consoles. Please tell me if I'm wrong anywhere.

According to their schematics, most consoles have line-level audio output impedances of anywhere from several hundred to a couple thousand ohms. This contrasts with the output impedances of devices like soundcards that are designed with driving headphones in mind. These can be 100 ohms or less - sometimes very much less.

The danger of crossing the line-level audio outputs of any two devices (or even the left and right stereo of one device) is that current from an external source can easily flow back through an op-amp. If the resistance around the op-amp - particularly the output impedance - is low, then crossing streams creates a situation where a lot of current can flow between outputs, and this creates heat and fries components.

To prevent this, people linking multiple output streams to a single input often simply put bigger resistors on each stream before the point that all of them cross. While this would reduce sound quality when connecting directly to headphones, for something like an amplifier input it's actually OK because the input impedance at those kinds of devices is very high. The extra resistors don't divide the voltage much, while they drastically limit the amount of current that can flow from one output to another.

However, for consoles that already have hundreds/thousands of ohms on their line-level audio outputs, this would be redundant. The resistors already inside the console are high enough to prevent harmful amounts of current from flowing, either into the console or out of it.

So I don't need to worry about my cheap Chinese rotary switch frying anything if it ever fails to completely isolate the channel I've selected. The worst I'll get is a drop in sound quality.

Does this sound right?

Thanks guys. :)

EDIT: Interesting...The AES doesn't have any resistors between the audio output of the CXA1145 and the AV connector per this schematic. So, I'm guessing that grounding this line or crossing it with another AES (for example) could cause major problems.

EDIT2: Same for the Genesis 1's AV port. Meanwhile, the Genesis 2 has 330 ohm resistors, and the audio doesn't go through the CXA1145 but a separate op-amp IC.


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 Post subject: Crestron FTP or web-access to downloads
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:53 am 


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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 173
Location: Canada
Does anyone know any members who might have access to Crestron firmware? I'm in a bit of a jam, and I'd love to try a firmware flash before I give up...

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:01 am 



Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 111
SamIAm wrote:
(A bump/continuation of my previous post.)

This is my best understanding of the situation regarding mixing line-level audio outputs from consoles. Please tell me if I'm wrong anywhere.

According to their schematics, most consoles have line-level audio output impedances of anywhere from several hundred to a couple thousand ohms. This contrasts with the output impedances of devices like soundcards that are designed with driving headphones in mind. These can be 100 ohms or less - sometimes very much less.

The danger of crossing the line-level audio outputs of any two devices (or even the left and right stereo of one device) is that current from an external source can easily flow back through an op-amp. If the resistance around the op-amp - particularly the output impedance - is low, then crossing streams creates a situation where a lot of current can flow between outputs, and this creates heat and fries components.

To prevent this, people linking multiple output streams to a single input often simply put bigger resistors on each stream before the point that all of them cross. While this would reduce sound quality when connecting directly to headphones, for something like an amplifier input it's actually OK because the input impedance at those kinds of devices is very high. The extra resistors don't divide the voltage much, while they drastically limit the amount of current that can flow from one output to another.

However, for consoles that already have hundreds/thousands of ohms on their line-level audio outputs, this would be redundant. The resistors already inside the console are high enough to prevent harmful amounts of current from flowing, either into the console or out of it.

So I don't need to worry about my cheap Chinese rotary switch frying anything if it ever fails to completely isolate the channel I've selected. The worst I'll get is a drop in sound quality.

Does this sound right?

Thanks guys. :)

EDIT: Interesting...The AES doesn't have any resistors between the audio output of the CXA1145 and the AV connector per this schematic. So, I'm guessing that grounding this line or crossing it with another AES (for example) could cause major problems.

EDIT2: Same for the Genesis 1's AV port. Meanwhile, the Genesis 2 has 330 ohm resistors, and the audio doesn't go through the CXA1145 but a separate op-amp IC.


RaneNote - Why Not Wye? - Wye-connectors (or "Y"-connectors, if you prefer) should never have been created.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:06 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 338
Quote:


Thanks. I had actually seen that before, and I believe I understand it.

The crux of my post was essentially this:

Quote:
However, for consoles that already have hundreds/thousands of ohms on their line-level audio outputs, [the Why-Not Wye article's solution of creating a passive mixer by adding resistors] would be redundant.


I just want to confirm that this is true and I'm not missing anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:06 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Can anyone explain why i'm still seeing horizontal lines on my CRT?

I have what seems to be a near perfect setup but i cant figure out why i see these lines (During pure black screens only)
while playing the SNES. I have SNES, NES, Genesis, XBOX and PS2 hooked up to my Banbridge Scart splitter and the Gamecube is on component cable.
Everything looks great except for when the screen goes black you really notice it.
Its a small thing but its become irritating.

Do i need a new Splitter? Is the SCART to component box bad?
I bought my scart cables from Retrogamingcables in the UK.

I'm at a dead end.


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