PCB Storage

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'm starting to slowly build a PCB collection. Right now I have DonPachi, Raiden II, and Gojuko Parodius. To the people with large collections, what method do you use to store your pcb's?

[emphatic]

Best IMHO: Get pink bubble wrap (because it's anti static and won't ESD your PCBs), wrap this around your PCBs and store them standing like vinyl records in boxes or on a shelf. Put masking tape on the bubble wrapped packages and write the PCBs names.

Like this:


More space eating and also more expensive way: Find fitting cardboard boxes and put bubble wrapped PCBs individually inside. Then print nice stickers and put on the boxes:



If you go with the top one, put some cardboard between each PCB and you can pull them out of the box with no worries.

[burgerkingdiamond]

ok, that looks good to me. The one with the cardboard boxes looks pretty damn official. Are those pics of your stuff?

[emphatic]

Are those pics of your stuff?

Yes. I don't have them in a book case like that anymore though. I actually regret getting the boxes, as it takes soooo much more room.

[Ed Oscuro]

Anti-static bubble bags are ok if you can afford them.

I got non-bubble anti-static bags so I put them inside old Priority shipping boxes. It works pretty well and keeps components from digging into those on other boards. Unfortunately I don't have enough space or old boxes to do this for all my boards, but I'm working on it slowly.

[neorichieb1971]

I've been round some peoples homes and they just have 1000's of PCB's (i'm not kidding). There is a guy who runs a website (forget his name) in Luton, UK. I went round his house and walked into this room I couldn't even find anywhere to walk. There were so many PCB's in there. Literally I couldn't tell if the room was painted, wallpapered.. I could have been in a green house and not realized it.

Really it depends on your own standards. If you want it neat and have 10 PCB's you can probably use boxes. I don't envisage ever having more than 20 PCB's because its too much money tied up in things that I don't change over that much. I have a Mr Driller 2 PCB in my cabinet from when the cabinet arrived.

[drunkninja24]

Is all pink bubble-wrap anti-static? I found some at a local store, but it made no mention of being so.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yep, all pink-colored bubble wrap is anti-static indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[system11]

Anti-static bubble bags are ok if you can afford them.

If you can't afford them you have no business buying PCBs, or pizza, or beers.

This is how I store most of mine:

http://www.system11.org/temp/lineups/04 ... oards2.jpg

On their sides in boxes, either individually or 1-3 in each is by far the best way to store them. If multiple, each should be individually wrapped.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ahh, expounding on the comparative virtues of anti-static materials...

Is all pink bubble-wrap anti-static? I found some at a local store, but it made no mention of being so.

I wouldn't hazard it: There is nothing inherently anti-static in the color pink, unless I've been lied to all these years and girls are inherently more anti-static than boys (say Minnie vs. Mickey). Sure, I've never run across pink bubble wrap that wasn't anti-static. Anti-static wrap is bound to be more expensive than normal wrap, and in rolls you will get some odd dimensions and leftovers if you try to cut it to fit all your PCBs. You're more likely to find ideally-sized grayish tinted-window style anti-static bags that motherboards and other PC components come in, though most of these are for components in the 12.0" x 9.6" ATX form factor and not big enough for dual-layer boards or even some single layer boards from the olden days. Those you can simply wrap in regular bubble.

If the wrap boxes don't specifically say "this is an anti-static bag" you'd be better off avoiding it. If they are anti-static they should say so somewhere, or you could ask, perhaps even steal somebody's dog and refuse to get him back until you get an answer (though in this case I would be suspicious of the veracity of the answer, and a ski mask might not help get an answer or avoid possible legal ramifications). If you're really desperate, don't want to wait for regular flat bags or bubble bags to ship to you, and have another use for the pink bags if they don't turn out to be anti-static (for example, wrapping yourself and lying by the side of the road for waste disposal out of shame for having wasted money on something that was not marked as anti-static, and for putting your expensive, treasured PCB collection in them, risking damage to them all, instead of simply going online and buying a bunch of anti-static bags in bulk), you could always do a simple rub test, which may or may not prove anything anyway. I'm sure that pro-static bubble wrap would make a great unexpected party favor or endear you as a practical jokester with your technologically-minded friends. But the only way to be sure...nuke it from orbit.

I'm not sure why you need pink bubble wrap for PCBs. It is equally inconvenient as it is convenient. Pink antistatic bags aren't cheap but they will cover all parts of the PCB and can be folded over with no tape needed (except to secure it), are easy to get things from, and hold their shape. Finding rectangular anti-static bubble bags would be ideal but these are going to be more expensive and might not come in ideal sizes. For antistatic bags you can simply place them in a box for storage, no bubbles required; if you're going to ship, any old cast-off peanuts or bubble wrap will work if you make sure to keep them out of the PCB bag (and the tape to keep one end folded over doesn't have to be magical, thankfully).

[Ed Oscuro]

Anti-static bubble bags are ok if you can afford them.

If you can't afford them you have no business buying PCBs, or pizza, or beers.

Well, I appreciate your defense of PCBs, which aren't being made anymore and should be protected from careless owners.

However, consider that there is in fact an alternative to the anti-static bubble bag. A careful inspection of the post you alluded to above reveals this ancient secret, in the form of the anti-static non-bubble bag (alternatively "non-bubbled," "bubble-less," "bubble free" after 1960s reactionaries and revanchist thought, and "bubble-bereft").

The rare technology of the non-bubble bag dates to prehistoric times, and is mostly employed for making cheese, carrying wine through deserts, and keeping sand from between toes (and I think we could all benefit from careful application of anti-sand-irritation techniques), hence the apparent obscurity of the old technology in relation to postwar bubble bags. But, used correctly, careful testing demonstrates that non-bubble anti-static bags are at least 100% effective at protecting the contents from dust and static, and general oldness in situations when your house is not rocking about from earth tremors, in which circumstances I would question why selecting a storage material for PCBs is top on one's list of priorities.

If you are rushing into an earthquake zone to rescue PCBs, or giant worms are emerging from the earth to eat everybody who approaches the last arcade with a running PCB of the rare arcade releases of DOOM II or Major Stryker, rest assured that with proper handling a flat-sided, non-bubbled anti-static bag will protect those PCBs just as well as bubbled anti-static bags, especially if you have an appropriate thin box handy.

As we say in the Tremors Arcade Salvage Corps: Preparation is everything. And knowing is half the battle.

[burgerkingdiamond]

what an answer Mr. Oscuro. Very entertaining, and informative. I still need to check on some anti static wrap. I have too many things going around in my head and my DonPachi board hasn't arrived yet, so it's not a pressing issue at the moment. How expensive can it be? I guess I'll find out.

[system11]

Trouble is if you use antistatic bags you still need to bubble wrap them - it's a false economy and antistatic bubble bags are really cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-Anti-Static-B ... 20b22839c7

If someone can't afford 35 pence each they have more problems than storage

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't remember exactly but I believe I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 (more or less) for 25 pieces of 12" x 24" bags, thickness of 2.8 mil. (Not sure exactly what that thickness translates to but it's plenty thick). I also got some larger bags for big PCBs, unfortunately they're thinner and seem easy to tear, so I would be hesitant to swing one of those bags around with a PCB inside. But I haven't had one tear on me so far, though I'm sure that the metal legs of components can puncture the thinner bags easily. But hey, they'll pop the bubbles of anti-static bubble wrap or bubble bags just as easily, unless those bags or wrap is very thick indeed.

Personally, I'm not convinced that taping together a Frankenbag out of a roll of only 25 feet of wrap is the way to go, nor would I pay extra for a anti-static bag when you actually might improve protection by using two layers (anti-static bag + outer cushioning material, and then a box of course).

Trouble is if you use antistatic bags you still need to bubble wrap them - it's a false economy and antistatic bubble bags are really cheap:

Caught updating post again, refer to text immediately above. False economy is trying to use bubble wrap to do the job of multiple things, especially where sharp needle-like objects are part of what you're trying to protect. The thicker anti-static bags I've seen deal with these every day and haven't complained to me yet (and yes, I've been listening).

If someone can't afford 35 pence each they have more problems than storage

Pretty sure my bags come out to cheaper than half a dollar, or whatever it came to. (And, even if they come out to a dollar each - not close - I'm still happier with the job they do + other layers than I would be by anti-static bubble wrap alone). The rest of the materials are free to be (recycled Priority Mail shipping boxes). In any case, I found anti-static bags online more cheaply than it would have been to drive all around the place in hopes of finding individual bags to buy at a likely markup (had any place actually appropriate materials in stock, and not just more bulk rolls of pink bubble wrap). Silly me, not moving to the UK to take advantage of the cost of living benefit of 35 pence anti-static bubble bags...what have I been thinking?!

[system11]

Cool story bro.

[Womble]

I've been round some peoples homes and they just have 1000's of PCB's (i'm not kidding). There is a guy who runs a website (forget his name) in Luton, UK.

That would be Andy from andysarcade.com, I dropped in last time I was back in the UK. I know just the room you mean, was like a cave that was hollowed out in a solid mass of PCBs.

[neorichieb1971]

Thats the one. Guys a nutter buying and storing all that stuff. Really friendly guy though we had a chat for an hour or so before I left.

[undamned]

Ed, you make me laugh.

By the way, cardboard itself is a great electrical insulator, so if you are putting your PCB's into cardboard boxes, you don't need anti-stat bags/bubble wrap, whatever.
-ud

[Ed Oscuro]

That may be the case but check your PMs...

[dpful]

Mount them on boards. I've had more pcbs with mechanical problems than static shock problems. Then you can just touch the boards anyways- no shock. Those squeaky sounds when you pick up your pcbs from all the chip legs squirming around-- not good. Just screw it to a square of Masonite at least. Then keep them on a shelf. Make a jamma extension cable that reaches the shelf (next to the cab) and never pull out a board again.

[Ex-Cyber]

Ed, you make me laugh.

By the way, cardboard itself is a great electrical insulator, so if you are putting your PCB's into cardboard boxes, you don't need anti-stat bags/bubble wrap, whatever.

You only really want insulation between the inside and outside, not internally; static builds on insulators. Still, I'm not sure that full-blown conductive bag/foam is the greatest idea for boards that have batteries on them, since you could short out the battery or whatever it's powering. Storing boards with batteries installed is generally a bad idea in the first place, but the manufacturers don't exactly offer a lot of choice in the matter.

thickness of 2.8 mil. (Not sure exactly what that thickness translates to but it's plenty thick)

FYI "mil" is short for the completely bizarre unit of "milliinches", i.e. thousandths of an inch. So 2.8 mil is about 0.07 mm. Plastic sheeting usually feels much thicker than it is, though.

[undamned]

thickness of 2.8 mil. (Not sure exactly what that thickness translates to but it's plenty thick)

FYI "mil" is short for the completely bizarre unit of "milliinches", i.e. thousandths of an inch. So 2.8 mil is about 0.07 mm. Plastic sheeting usually feels much thicker than it is, though.

The "mil" format is sometimes referred to as "imperial."
-ud

[ave]

Sorry for waking up the dead... but I am currently wondering how to store my PCBs properly after years of essentially ignoring this topic.

There two main questions I have:

1) I often see PCBs in Japanese shops that are wrapped tightly in a certain way so that it's really neat but the JAMMA connectors are easily accessible by opening only one flap. Does anyone know where to find a "folding tutorial"?

2) Pink bubble wrap is anti-static, but is there any difference between pink and other colours (blue, pink, black, green)?

[Sumez]

Nice to see this thread bumped. PCB storage is an important thing that I think a lot of people have a tendency to wrongfully ignore. I definitely want to do something about my situation, where PCBs are randomly falling over eachother, wrapped up in various kinds of bubble wrap (with only the most precious ones protected in anti-static bags or blue wrap). Putting in a new game involves a treasure hunt for labels implemented in varying manners and a mess of bubble wrap left all over the place.

I was thinking of making neat casings for each board with hex spacers and acrylic plates, but doing that for each of my 60+ individual non-cartridge boards would easily turn expensive. I could also settle for just putting feet on every board and screwing them on to thin ~3mm wood fiber boards.

A different cheap solution is this guy's idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ab8rW05Czc
It sounds kinda messy to me, and I would be afraid of getting parts smashed but seeing it in effect it looks surprisingly neat, and it can't really be worse than wrapping stuff up in bubble wrap. What do people think of it?

[noonan2678]

What's with the warehouse look of all these solutions? Not judging, but kind of am.

I'll keep quiet until I set up a better solution.

[ave]

A different cheap solution is this guy's idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ab8rW05Czc
It sounds kinda messy to me, and I would be afraid of getting parts smashed but seeing it in effect it looks surprisingly neat, and it can't really be worse than wrapping stuff up in bubble wrap. What do people think of it?

This does look good, but I wouldn't do it because it does not seem to protect certain PCBs very well and it's also too much work given this caveat. Some PCBs with a tall heatsink will stick out and the heatsink won't be protected, e.g. Seta Aleck 64-based PCBs or some that have 2 levels of different dimensions, like Konami GX. You can even see it in his video... I'd prefer a bubble wrap-solutions with bubble wrap on the sides. I currently have them in boxes, but I actually find that it doesn't look all that good in my opinion... and space is a constraint, too. I prefer the clean look of coloured bubble wrap with labels, but I know that others consider exactly that look the messy one

[KnuckleheadFlow]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this, but just to clear things up; the pink/blue bags, foam and bubble wrap are "anti-static" in the sense that the plastic has been treated to not build up a static charge as you handle it. It does not protect against static shock. A spark will go right through it same as any other.

For static protection, you need those silver, metalized plastic bags. The ones PC motherboards and GPUs come in.

That said, it's always been my understanding that static is more a concern with bare components. Once they're on a PCB that big ass ground plane will dissipate most charges your body can build up. I have honestly never heard of any PCB mounted components being ruined by static. It's exceedingly rare if it happens.

[Ed Oscuro]

Since your post I've been wondering about this. I thought that the major purpose of a ground plane is to handle stray voltage or current while the device is in use - so it most directly protects communication ports, power, and other things with a connection to the outside world, or it's dealing with a device on the board that consistently dumps some small amount of extra voltage into the circuit which you have to handle for stability. Physical handling is more random; you can touch the board anywhere and if you're careless or unlucky that current spike can happen right next to a fragile component, or multiple fragile components, and travel into both. If anything I think it's just the higher design tolerances of obsolete components that protect them from being shocked to death; some modern stuff is exceedingly fragile.

I blathered on a lot earlier, but my basic view is that any non-metalized bag is only a partial solution and you can't count on it to make up for bad handling. Pink anti-static bags or bubble can only be relied on not to build up a charge when you unwrap them. The bubble wrap is more likely to provide a physical gap between you and the PCB, and probably is good enough for shipment, but it's not a guarantee. You also have to think about the physical board itself, so it has to be stored in a way that it won't sag or bend. Ex-Cyber's point about discharging batteries is interesting, too.

In the meantime I put more stock in proper handling and putting money into the things that directly help a PCB function safely, like a good power supply that delivers free range electrons hand-picked by elves in the valleys of the Swiss Alps.

By the way, since Brexit how are those anti-static wrap prices?

[Sumez]

To be perfectly honest, I have owned more than 50 different, and seen many other arcade PCBs stored in clear bubble wrap. Not one has been damaged by static electricity to my knowledge. Handling and storing the PCBs in a way that protuding components don't get hurt, and no boards are allowed to scratch eachother, is a very obvious first priority.

I'm sure it's possible for the damage to happen through clear bubble wrap though, and for my most valued boards, I'm not taking any chances either. You can never be too safe I guess.

[system11]

Nice to see this thread bumped. PCB storage is an important thing that I think a lot of people have a tendency to wrongfully ignore. I definitely want to do something about my situation, where PCBs are randomly falling over eachother, wrapped up in various kinds of bubble wrap (with only the most precious ones protected in anti-static bags or blue wrap). Putting in a new game involves a treasure hunt for labels implemented in varying manners and a mess of bubble wrap left all over the place.

I was thinking of making neat casings for each board with hex spacers and acrylic plates, but doing that for each of my 60+ individual non-cartridge boards would easily turn expensive. I could also settle for just putting feet on every board and screwing them on to thin ~3mm wood fiber boards.

A different cheap solution is this guy's idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ab8rW05Czc
It sounds kinda messy to me, and I would be afraid of getting parts smashed but seeing it in effect it looks surprisingly neat, and it can't really be worse than wrapping stuff up in bubble wrap. What do people think of it?

It's a terrible idea, that will trap heat. Heating and cooling cycles are your enemy just as much as static electricity. Even putting your finger on top of some PAL chips will very quickly build up a considerable amount of heat for example, many should have been fitted with heatsinks really, but aren't for cost reasons.

Pink bubble bags are effective enough, and they are incredibly cheap on amazon or ebay.
Combination true metallised & pink bubble bags also exist, they're more expensive and less flexible but worth it for games which will fit in one.

Store games on their side, not like Luke has all leaning on eachother, but you don't need to go as far as individual boxes. I use boxes that hold 1-5 boards depending on size, the boxes are really just functioning the same way record storage partitions do, to stop everything leaning on everything else.

Having something looking like a warehouse of boxes is a reality you will have to face with a PCB collection, so just accept it. Buy boxes in bulk so they're all of a uniform size, and you'll need a storage rack that can handle the weight, bear in mind the racks in my house have 35 boxes on each, each box tends to weigh between 2 and 4 kilos. Those modern looking plastic racks can't cut it, even though they're rated for 30+kg per shelf, trust me they start to bend and fall over.