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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:52 am 


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Quote:
Standard VGA mode on my HDTV looks whack yo. Blurry image with very slightly dark, wide lines going up and down the screen. It's just barely passable. But when I connect it through the XRGB-3's bypass it gives me a sharper picture.


Well, that doesn't make much sense, the pass-through is supposed to be just a pass through after all. Then again it added Jailbars to my image so must do something.

Incidentally, if you've modded your Dreamcast VGA box it might be sensible to pass the DC through the XRGB3, in B1 the standard VGA should simply be passed through, where 15khz will be upscaled of course, though I've not tried this to confirm.

Quote:
Dammit. Looks like I got wrong information then. We had reason to believe the reason why a lot of the games didn't work was it had something to do with the voltage.


The SLG just adds scanlines, doesn't do anything else to the signal. The reason a lot of games don't work is due to the weird sync the XRGB3 puts out. Adding an Extron RGB interface helps in some circumstances, but if you're an NTSC gamer you really should be looking to the Frame Meister.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:28 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Well, that doesn't make much sense, the pass-through is supposed to be just a pass through after all. Then again it added Jailbars to my image so must do something.

Incidentally, if you've modded your Dreamcast VGA box it might be sensible to pass the DC through the XRGB3, in B1 the standard VGA should simply be passed through, where 15khz will be upscaled of course, though I've not tried this to confirm.


I wonder if the TV manufacturers may have something to do with the results. Different circuitry and all you're probably playing in B0 mode. The DC Box is unmodded... far as I know... I only play my XRGB-3 in B1 mode to get rid of the lag. Any who the fact stands on my display DC Box w/ XRGB-3 is objectively better than just the Box by itself. It's almost as if the XRGB-3 lifts a cloud overlapping my picture.

What TV are you using? Mine is a 32-inch VIZIO of the Plasma variety.

Quote:
The SLG just adds scanlines, doesn't do anything else to the signal. The reason a lot of games don't work is due to the weird sync the XRGB3 puts out. Adding an Extron RGB interface helps in some circumstances, but if you're an NTSC gamer you really should be looking to the Frame Meister.


O_o You're saying the Frame Meister is more adept at handling Arcade hardware that's perfect! I told my friend to get a Frame Meister instead of the XRGB-3 a number of weeks ago because I felt it's features would be beneficial for him. I had no idea it was Supergun friendly. Perhaps I should get one... can it take MVS, Atomiswave, CPS2, CPS3 and the like?
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:40 am 


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rugdoctor wrote:
640x480 from the 360 is plenty sharp for me, are you using the official M$ VGA cable, because 3rd party ones are not good.


yes yes genuine xbox vga cable - still can't believe that i played so much with a chinese cable convinced that the gosting is just "a xbox thing".

i'm coming to the conclusion that the tv's internal scaler is all in all, rubish. 480i looks pretty bad too. component lacks colours. the only really positive thing
i can say is that it shows 240p correctly. oh well.

Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
is this something that might happen with other, higher quality scalers when scaling it up to a higher resolution ?

that's uneven scaling. Some scalers do this fine, some fail. If you can grab a Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler (sometimes very cheap on ebay), they can do this fine (to any resolution, no matter if XGA or Full HD).


i just read your review about this box and this might be exactly what i'm searching for. it seems that it also might be a remedy for that gastly 480i.
can't find one with a price below 250 with shipping to poland though. oh well.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:15 pm 


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Quote:
O_o You're saying the Frame Meister is more adept at handling Arcade hardware that's perfect! I told my friend to get a Frame Meister instead of the XRGB-3 a number of weeks ago because I felt it's features would be beneficial for him. I had no idea it was Supergun friendly. Perhaps I should get one... can it take MVS, Atomiswave, CPS2, CPS3 and the like?


The Frame Meister generally works with less hassle with most things, but read through the Frame Meister thread before jumping to conclusions, ask those questions in the Meister thread if you need to, though some have been answered there already. I don't own one so I can only comment on what I read. The biggest drawback is it's lack of full PAL compatibility, which makes it unattractive to me. Remember the Meister doesn't have VGA in either.

Quote:
I wonder if the TV manufacturers may have something to do with the results.


They do, since most people don't use the VGA that much, they use cheaper and cheaper A/D converters.

Quote:
The DC Box is unmodded... far as I know...


Yeah, I mean the mod where you add a switch to the VGA box, to allow both 31 and 15khz RGB to be output (thus saving a cable swap for those non VGA Dreamcast games).

Quote:
What TV are you using? Mine is a 32-inch VIZIO of the Plasma variety.


The gamers favourite :mrgreen: Sony KDL-40Z4500 LCD - Doesn't work with the XRGB3 at all (hence my need for a DVDO Edge too).
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:08 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
The Frame Meister generally works with less hassle with most things, but read through the Frame Meister thread before jumping to conclusions, ask those questions in the Meister thread if you need to, though some have been answered there already. I don't own one so I can only comment on what I read. The biggest drawback is it's lack of full PAL compatibility, which makes it unattractive to me. Remember the Meister doesn't have VGA in either.


Good idea I'll ask there. I'm well aware the the Meister is missing the VGA out. I was surprised to learn Micomsoft favored HDMI video instead.

BuckoA51 wrote:
Yeah, I mean the mod where you add a switch to the VGA box, to allow both 31 and 15khz RGB to be output (thus saving a cable swap for those non VGA Dreamcast games).


Oh at first I thought you were talking about something else there. I wish my box was modded with the 31 to 15 kHz switch. This thing only does 31 kHz like your usual DC Box auction. It's the reason why I use a dual Dreamcast set-up to accomadate both RGB & VGA. It's always good to have access to both kilohertz because games like KOF, Guilty Gear X and the BIG 3D games appears stunning at 31 kHz whereas Capcom fighters suck unless you use 15 kHz i.e. SCART RGB.

BuckoA51 wrote:
The gamers favourite :mrgreen:


Mine or yours? Wouldn't want to get confused. What makes it the gamers favorite?

BuckoA51 wrote:
Sony KDL-40Z4500 LCD - Doesn't work with the XRGB3 at all (hence my need for a DVDO Edge too).


Sure if you want to break the bank.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:37 pm 


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Quote:
Good idea I'll ask there. I'm well aware the the Meister is missing the VGA out. I was surprised to learn Micomsoft favored HDMI video instead.


It's missing VGA out AND in, though there's usually no real need for VGA out in this modern, digital era.

Quote:
Mine or yours? Wouldn't want to get confused. What makes it the gamers favorite?


Mine, it has a great picture and exceptionally low input lag (10ms or less in Game mode)

Quote:
Sure if you want to break the bank.


Says the man asking about MVS, Atomiswave etc compatibility :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:45 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Says the man asking about AES, Atomiswave etc compatibility :lol:


Here I thought I was the only one crazy obsessed enough to spend ridiculous amounts of money on nostalgia and performance. To think I still marvel at the prospect of owning Kizuna Encounter and SamSho 5 Special for the AES and not MVS. Clearly I have issuess...
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:02 pm 


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I recently purchased an SLG3000 and tried it out but the colors are wrong. To be specific, there's no red color at all. All the reds look black or white so everything looks to have a blue/green hue. I've tried both a Genesis and PS2 hooked up to an XRGB2 through RGB cables, to the SLG3000 via a VGA cable, and then to a monitor via another VGA cable. Without the SLG3000, the setup has no issues.

Adjusting the switches for even/odd on the PCB does nothing. And I'm not sure if the screen is supposed to gradually show scanline lightening/darkening as the potentiometer is rotated but on mine, it seems to stutter between light and dark and doesn't actually show gradual differences in scanline intensity. At least the on/off switch works. But regardless of the intensity of scanlines and regardless of whether the SLG3000 is set to on/off, red isn't passing through.

I'm assuming this is a production error but if anyone has any suggestions, feel free to let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:40 pm 


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Okay, it`s time to present a new project I`m currently spending much time on. It`s a Sync Strike, SLG3000 and Scaler GBS combo. I call it "SLG in a box" so far ;)

But first the pics.

Image

Image

Image

Interface PCB - here are the connectors : scart in, vga in, YUV in, VGA out, audio out (coming from scart), PSU
plus some connectors for ribbon cables. Additionally here are the sync cleaner plus scanline generator.

Image
Control PCB - all controls are placed on this PCB. Several switches, Scanline intesity, on and off for Scanlines, scaler and whole unit PSU.

Image
Scaler gbs8220. All controls and interfaces are grabbed and forwarded to the main and control pcb.

http://bencao74.blogspot.com/2012/02/slg-in-box.html

I´ll drop some features later, coz I`m still in the testing phase. Today a prototype case arrived, just a very simple one. I´ll do a more elaborated one.

Tests : Plug a PS2 via RGB SCART and the picture rocks on my 40" LCD :)
But much work is left for testing.

That`s all for now :)
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:49 pm 



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8)

If you want someone to help with your testing you know where to come!! :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:40 pm 



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Awesome! Can't wait to see how this turns out.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:16 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 19
Hello-

I own the SLG3000(v1) and I am having a problem that I hope someone can help me with.

My setup is Laptop(640x480 output)->SLG3000->Kramer FC-14 VGA to Component Transcoder->Component input on a Sony 34XBR910 CRT TV

See picture of issue here - http://bayimg.com/bAmnlAAdi


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:46 am 



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What's the native resolution of your TV... I bet it's not 1080p!?
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:31 am 


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But CRTs shouldn't scale the image after all (while this one obviously does). Might be fixable in the service menu by stretching the image a little bit vertically or adjusting the vertical linearity. Just make sure to write down or take photos of the original values before changing anything. To enter the SM on Sony TVs: standby -> info -> 5 -> vol+ -> on.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:49 am 



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You know what..... I didn't even see the "CRT" bit! lol :oops:

But.....
It does some weird scaling shit according to the technical stuff on-line.

Apparantly there is a 960i scaled output (as one of the output options).... but this can be changed to 480p.

According to the technical jizz it should be fixable.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:12 pm 


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I`ve done a first enclosure for the SLG in a box.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

http://bencao74.blogspot.com/2012/02/slg-in-box-enclosure-work.html


Some featues :

- RGB SCART Input
- VGA Input
- YUV Input
- Audio Out (from Scart)
- VGA output
- Scanlines for 480p and higher resolutions.
- Scanlines switch On / Off
- Switch On / Off
- Switch for Resolution Config
- Scanlines Intensity Adjustment
- Odd / Even scanlines
- All controls at the front of the enclosure
- OSD menu for scaler configuration
- All interfaces at the back of the enclosure

Unit is still in development phase.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:41 am 


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^It certainly looks powerful. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

By the way this scanline generator is far out. Works very well on my Panasonic console. Gex never looked so good, felt like it belonged in a cabinet at Astro City! The Dreamcast is an absolute bliss. So glad I decided to use it on the XRGB-3. Put the DC through that Dsub15 filter using the SLG3000 as output. It afforted me a nice, smooth picture. So far the view on Sonic Adventure and Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes is all kinds of awesome. Can't wait to try out CVS2 & Guilty Gear X. Hell GGX was the main reason I got this thing. Because it looks so much better in VGA than it does RGB. Always wanted it with scanlines. Oh man I can hardly contain myself. I am extremely pleased with the device.

Between DC Box and SLG3000 with their see-through motherboard. I feel like a total tech stud sporting all these gizmo's. Such a great purchase I'm happy. :D
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:08 pm 


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Anyone as used the SLG SCART in a CRT TV, or PVM, or arcade monitor with for example, a xbox 1 outputing emulators in 480i? will the scanline effect be good? I love my old xbox because i can take it with me to everywhere, with lots of games on is hdd, but i hate that 480i look on the crt tv's. Some emulators have filters, but saddly only a few have scanlines with nothing more.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:28 pm 


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no, scanline emulation (at least the way the SLG does it) doesn't work with interlaced signals.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:29 am 


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The SLG3000 does work with the Xbox 1 VGA cable though.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:20 pm 


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Very cool how you've gotten the scaler's controls externalized like that. I'd love to see a small harness so user's can use whatever buttons they like, for superguns etc.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:29 am 


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Hey,

hadn't time the last weeks to work on this project for some reasons. But now it`s time to bring it on my desk again.

Quote:
Very cool how you've gotten the scaler's controls externalized like that. I'd love to see a small harness so user's can use whatever buttons they like, for superguns etc.


Yes, since I was making dozen of arcade sticks I`ve made dozen of dual mods. It`s the same principle by just taking the signal by solder points. There is room for improvement for sure (taking the signal from the gbs breakouts) but it works. :)

Bye

Jochen
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:20 am 


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I apologize if this question has already been asked, but I don't see it on the first page, and not mentioned in official documentation. What other resolutions does SLG3000 support? The website says it features "DIP settings for different resolutions" but then only mentioned 640x480. Are scanlines at 720p (1380x768) supported? I'm dealing with a rather large LCD and 720p is the native res (480p looks very blurry). Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:51 am 


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Hey, SLG supports 720p, but best results will be received with 480p.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:24 am 


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Dave_K. wrote:
I apologize if this question has already been asked, but I don't see it on the first page, and not mentioned in official documentation. What other resolutions does SLG3000 support? The website says it features "DIP settings for different resolutions" but then only mentioned 640x480. Are scanlines at 720p (1380x768) supported? I'm dealing with a rather large LCD and 720p is the native res (480p looks very blurry). Thanks.


you might want to add an external scaler to your setup. i had a similar problem on my tv where games after being upscaled from 480p through the slg looked very blurry later. fudoh helped me get a cheap gefen hd mate (also a gefen vga-hdmi scaler does the same job) and it looks really fantastic. probably the best result i can get with this setup.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:05 pm 


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Yes, SLG3000 works in 720p mode, but you can't see the scanlines (it just makes the picture look darker).

Thanks for the suggestion of an external scaler, sounds like that should work.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:27 pm 


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I use my SLG3000 with 720p material, it looks pretty good imo, I use it with Scott Pilgrim, Puzzle Fighter XLBA and the Sonic CD remake, you should totally still see scanlines at 720p. At 1080p it gets a bit pointless but you can still make out scanlines.
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:05 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
I use my SLG3000 with 720p material, it looks pretty good imo, I use it with Scott Pilgrim, Puzzle Fighter XLBA and the Sonic CD remake, you should totally still see scanlines at 720p


Can you post a picture of this?
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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:26 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
I use my SLG3000 with 720p material, it looks pretty good imo, I use it with Scott Pilgrim, Puzzle Fighter XLBA and the Sonic CD remake, you should totally still see scanlines at 720p. At 1080p it gets a bit pointless but you can still make out scanlines.

This sounds really pointless as the goal is to simulate 240p scanlines on a 480p display. For at least two of the above games, what you're doing is arbitrarily blanking out random lines that don't actually correspond to where you'd see blanking lines on a 240p display.


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 Post subject: Re: New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:32 pm 


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Quote:
Can you post a picture of this?


I'll try, I don't have a capture card so it'll have to be digicam at TV.

Quote:
This sounds really pointless


Do you consider it pointless for a game like Scott Pilgrim to have 16 bit style graphics? On Sonic CD (which is basically using the old graphics but with widescreen support) it makes the scaling look better too.
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