New Scanline generator SLG3000 - available now!

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

Framemeister: Micomsoft claims basically zero lag, while some (few) tests hint at about 1.5 frames, so the reality is likely somewhere in between.

XRGB-3: In B1 mode (linedoubling, lag-free, scanlines) you only get VGA output.

BuckoA51 · Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Posts: 3224 Location: Ireland

Thought you'd personally tested the Framemeister at 24ms of input lag Fudoh?

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

I did and it came out with 1.5 frames of delay. Did I say something else ?

BuckoA51 · Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Posts: 3224 Location: Ireland

sounds like you are doubting your own results is all.

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

not really, but I think that the results might be source-dependent and the I only tested it with a Nomad/MD2 system versus a CRT. Also the Mini was running through a HDFury at the time. That's why I urged people to do some testing on their own, but nodoby except for Artemio came up with anything and Artemio's setup is very complicated as well (with SDI conversions etc).

rastan · Joined: 16 Feb 2012 Posts: 7

So Framemeister is the best solution for XBOX 360 (KOF 2002UM) and AES NEO GEO?

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

definitely.

rastan · Joined: 16 Feb 2012 Posts: 7

So I need to buy an official scart cable to connect the PAL XBOX to the Framemeister? What about the JAPAN NEO GEO AES?

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

XBox360 gets connected via HDMI. Neo Geo via Scart RGB, but note that Euro Scart is not the same as Japan Scart and the cable that comes with the Framemeister is for Japan Scart cables.

rastan · Joined: 16 Feb 2012 Posts: 7

I need something like this: http://cgi.ebay.fr/EXC-RGB-Cable-Green- ... 43aad3b569

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

yeah, but not at this price. You can get great quality custom built NG RGB cables for probably around 15-18 EUR.

rastan · Joined: 16 Feb 2012 Posts: 7

Fudoh, do you know who can build a custom cable like that to have the best quality?

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

Depends on where you live. Retro Gaming Accessories in the US, Retro Gaming Cables in the UK, Moosmann here in Germany.

SePh1r0tH · Joined: 27 Nov 2011 Posts: 156

Just got my SLG3000, Sync Strike, and CGA2VGA in today. Gotta say i'm really impressed. I've only tested my PS2 and 360 so far but the difference is like night and day. Amazing product for the price.

matrigs · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 681 Location: Poland

does the slg actually work with anything else than 60hz in 640x480 or does it have any syncing issues ? or doesn't it matter at all ?

i'm curious if i would be able to launch dodonpachi in groovymame in 57hz, put it through the slg and to a naomi sanwa 29e31s. the sanwa apparently syncs to 57hz.

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

matrigs wrote:

does the slg actually work with anything else than 60hz in 640x480 or does it have any syncing issues ? or doesn't it matter at all ?

i'm curious if i would be able to launch dodonpachi in groovymame in 57hz, put it through the slg and to a naomi sanwa 29e31s. the sanwa apparently syncs to 57hz.

Why wouldn't you use MAME scanlines?

fagin · Joined: 19 Mar 2010 Posts: 1654 Location: UK

cools wrote:

matrigs wrote:

does the slg actually work with anything else than 60hz in 640x480 or does it have any syncing issues ? or doesn't it matter at all ?

i'm curious if i would be able to launch dodonpachi in groovymame in 57hz, put it through the slg and to a naomi sanwa 29e31s. the sanwa apparently syncs to 57hz.

Why wouldn't you use MAME scanlines?

Inability to achieve pixel perfect scanlines on certain setups.

Using MAME with line doubling options and then SLG equates to perfect scanlines pixel by pixel.

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

It doesn't work if you're being a numpty and setting it up wrong, but it does work perfectly every time if configured correctly.

What setups doesn't it work on?

fagin · Joined: 19 Mar 2010 Posts: 1654 Location: UK

cools wrote:

It doesn't work if you're being a numpty and setting it up wrong, but it does work perfectly every time if configured correctly.

What setups doesn't it work on?

Perhaps you best inform a "numpty" then how to set it up to be pixel perfect on a 1080p & 1200p display, whilst actually looking realistic in it's presentation and not being pre-scaled to ****.

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

Take a default mame.ini and use the following settings:
hlsl_enable 1
scanline_alpha 1.0

Or run: mame -hlsl_enable -scanline_alpha 1.0

I also prefer these additional settings to reduce the sharpness a little.

shadow_mask_alpha 0.03
defocus 1.5,1.5

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

And if your computer isn't quite beefy enough:

hlsl_prescale_x 2
hlsl_prescale_y 2
defocus 0.0,0.0

Produces almost the same softness in the image.

fagin · Joined: 19 Mar 2010 Posts: 1654 Location: UK

When I played with this (and I haven't re-tried recently), whilst it was better than previous non HLSL mame, it still wasn't perfect and iirc required tinkering dependant on game resolution. Setting MAME to linedouble mode and using the SLG "just works" regardless of game resolution and/or PC's ability to operate with HLSL. In many ways it's an easier option imo.

If I get time I'll re-visit out of curiosity and see how it performs under the microscope.

You're stating it should work perfectly, so it will be interesting to clarify that for sure (from a personal perspective).

Let's hope it does even though I'm not used to being called a "numpty". :mrgreen:

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

I wasn't calling you a numpty

(I actually thought it didn't need HLSL, but then I remembered that method requires each game to be set up individually - so I've been messing around with HLSL all afternoon)

The settings below work wonderfully with everything I've tried (on a 1920x1080p screen). Pixel perfect scanlines. Although the curvature won't be to everyone's taste - I was seeing if I could get an image that looked like a VGA CRT with 15khz scanlines, and I think I've succeeded:

Code:

brightness                1.01
hlsl_enable            1
hlsl_prescale_x        0
hlsl_prescale_y        0
hlsl_preset            -1
hlsl_snap_width        2048
hlsl_snap_height       1536
shadow_mask_alpha      0.100000
shadow_mask_texture    aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count    480
shadow_mask_y_count    288
shadow_mask_usize      0.093750
shadow_mask_vsize      0.109375
curvature              0.000000
pincushion             0.020000
scanline_alpha         1.000000
scanline_size          1.000000
scanline_height        1.000000
scanline_bright_scale  1.000000
scanline_bright_offset 0.000000
scanline_jitter        0.050000
defocus                0.500000,0.500000
converge_x             0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y             0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x      0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y      0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio              1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio              0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio              0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation             1.000000
offset                 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale                  1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
power                  1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
floor                  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
phosphor_life          0.050000,0.050000,0.050000
yiq_enable             0
yiq_cc                 3.597545
yiq_a                  0.500000
yiq_b                  0.500000
yiq_o                  0.000000
yiq_p                  1.000000
yiq_n                  1.000000
yiq_y                  6.000000
yiq_i                  1.200000
yiq_q                  0.600000
yiq_scan_time          52.599998
yiq_phase_count        2

matrigs · Joined: 18 Jan 2010 Posts: 681 Location: Poland

well i wasn't thinking specifically about mame. afaik a naomi mobo also puts out 57hz ?

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

Naomi is 60hz iirc. Not sure why you'd want scanlines on a VGA native system outputting to a 31k monitor, but anyway...

Fudoh · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 12663 Location: Germany

Quote:

Setting MAME to linedouble mode

as previously mentioned I haven't looked into MAME for a while. What option do you check in the current version to achieve a linedoubled output with the rest of the resolution filled up black ?

mr_b · Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Posts: 19

Thanks Cools. I'm interested to see what kind of pic this config produces.

cools wrote:

I wasn't calling you a numpty

(I actually thought it didn't need HLSL, but then I remembered that method requires each game to be set up individually - so I've been messing around with HLSL all afternoon)

The settings below work wonderfully with everything I've tried (on a 1920x1080p screen). Pixel perfect scanlines. Although the curvature won't be to everyone's taste - I was seeing if I could get an image that looked like a VGA CRT with 15khz scanlines, and I think I've succeeded:

Code:

brightness                1.01
hlsl_enable            1
hlsl_prescale_x        0
hlsl_prescale_y        0
hlsl_preset            -1
hlsl_snap_width        2048
hlsl_snap_height       1536
shadow_mask_alpha      0.100000
shadow_mask_texture    aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count    480
shadow_mask_y_count    288
shadow_mask_usize      0.093750
shadow_mask_vsize      0.109375
curvature              0.000000
pincushion             0.020000
scanline_alpha         1.000000
scanline_size          1.000000
scanline_height        1.000000
scanline_bright_scale  1.000000
scanline_bright_offset 0.000000
scanline_jitter        0.050000
defocus                0.500000,0.500000
converge_x             0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
converge_y             0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_x      0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
radial_converge_y      0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
red_ratio              1.000000,0.000000,0.000000
grn_ratio              0.000000,1.000000,0.000000
blu_ratio              0.000000,0.000000,1.000000
saturation             1.000000
offset                 0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
scale                  1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
power                  1.000000,1.000000,1.000000
floor                  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
phosphor_life          0.050000,0.050000,0.050000
yiq_enable             0
yiq_cc                 3.597545
yiq_a                  0.500000
yiq_b                  0.500000
yiq_o                  0.000000
yiq_p                  1.000000
yiq_n                  1.000000
yiq_y                  6.000000
yiq_i                  1.200000
yiq_q                  0.600000
yiq_scan_time          52.599998
yiq_phase_count        2

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

Fudoh: assuming 15k games only, the important bits are:

video ddraw
keepaspect 0
hwstretch 0
switchres 1
resolution 640x480

You'll probably need to vary the res though depending on the game (it doesn't work for CPS1 for example)

cyborc · Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 304 Location: USA

cools wrote:

I wasn't calling you a numpty

(I actually thought it didn't need HLSL, but then I remembered that method requires each game to be set up individually - so I've been messing around with HLSL all afternoon)

The settings below work wonderfully with everything I've tried (on a 1920x1080p screen). Pixel perfect scanlines. Although the curvature won't be to everyone's taste - I was seeing if I could get an image that looked like a VGA CRT with 15khz scanlines, and I think I've succeeded:

thanks for sharing your settings, cools! those look great on my lcd tv. i even like the curvature

cools · Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: South Wales

Not to derail the thread anymore - from what i can see hlsl wasn't working well in the initial few releases but it was fixed quite a while ago. I'm impressed with it and I'd be interested in seeing what guys like Fagin can come up with. Stick a really high resolution LCD behind glass and I reckon it'd be tough to distinguish from a pro CRT.

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