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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:47 pm 


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Kez wrote:
https://youtu.be/2py-wAFRl7E

Yes exactly, here's a video I made of my setup.


Thanks much! Yeah, my SNES, Genesis, and Playstation 1 profiles all load just fine, but for whatever reason, these Gameboy ones keep loading as windowed. I don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:10 pm 


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There are only two things I can think of that would cause that:

1 - If you use LOAD_SELECT instead of LOAD, it will not apply the zoom settings. This is a lot less noticeable with the consoles you mentioned as you will still get a full-screen image, just without the integer scaling offered by FBX's profiles.

2 - You may have hit the SAVE options instead of LOAD, which would overwrite the profile with your current settings. In this case you would need to re-download the profile and put it on the SD card again.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:20 pm 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
TooBeaucoup wrote:
Kez wrote:
Yeah, that's not right.

I would suggest re-downloading the profiles and replacing them, also make sure you are using LOAD_ALL when opening a profile. Check that zoom is enabled in your FM settings, if it isn't then the profile isn't loading properly.


So when I load the profiles, zoom should enable itself with the profile, is what you're saying?


Yeah you need to use "Load", not "Load_Select" because "Load" turns on zoom settings and ensures all settings are loaded and activated.

If you still get a small screen with the 7x profile, let me know what zoom values are loaded into memory and I'll double-check on my end to make sure it isn't a mistake in the profile.


pezmed wrote:
FBX or anyone. I would appreciate some advice on using the Wii through the FM.

I've got my Wii connected via component using D-Terminal.

I'm playing Xenobalde Chronicles which supposedly uses 16:9 anamorphic and 480p.



My profiles are for 720 or 1080p monitors, but you might could give the PS2 480 widescreen profile a try and experiment with. The scaling won't be correct, but should give the right aspect ratio in any case. I found you can set the aspect ratio to 4:3 and then turn on ZOOM and set ZOOM_WIDTH to a value of 1 and that is almost exactly 16:9 (at least for the PS2). You can push it to zero if you want it a little wider.

Quote:
I just want to know what the best FM settings are for this situation. I don't care for the widescreen more than I would rather like to have as sharp an image possible with little jaggies.

I know I can hook my Wii to HD TV component and be done, but I'm using my Asus ROG 27'' IPS monitor to play on and requires the Framemeister's help.


I can't really help you there. I never got a Wii. I might have to break down and borrow one from a friend and knock out some Wii profiles as a last hurrah to the Framemeister (my focus has been on the OSSC lately).

Quote:
I've played around with my settings and have a decent picture but I notice some anomalies with color shifting such as the ground where the colors might be solid and consistent.

Would FBX's PS2 480p profiles be a helpful starting point here for color accuracy?


Possibly, but I don't know for sure. The PS2 profiles are based on what the PS2 should look like at proper calibration for HDMI YCBCR output. Generally though, the D-Terminal input defaults on the Framemeister are wrong. You need to turn the Brightness up quite a bit, and Saturation typically down to a value of 25.


Quote:
Is it better to set my output on FM to 480p, 720p, etc..? ROG monitor has native 1440p so not sure what is best here. Should I just set Wii to output 480i?


Hmm, does your monitor support DVI? I seem to recall DVI mode on the Framemeister has more resolutions beyond 1080p. It might be worth making your own new profile with a resolution that better fits your monitor's native pixel rate.

Quote:
I do know everyone does suggest Picture mode and Sharpness 0 or 1 value.

Any one that has a profile for the Wii to share or can suggest what FM settings are best for the Wii would be greatly appreciated. I'm really green at all this and only know a little about all these settings.


Yeah Picture should be used for progressive content, and Sharpness at a value of zero (1 should only be used as a deblur function for consoles like the N64 that actually need it.)
But the problem here is your off-spec monitor resolution. Nobody can give you what the zoom settings should be unless they also have a 1440p set up and know what they are doing. However, you can start by going into the Visual_Set options and setting your Scaler mode to "OFF" and changing H_scaler to 5 and V_Scaler to 6. That will give the sharpest 'focus'.
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Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:23 pm 


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FBX, On the topic of Framemeister sharpness. I have an RGB modded N64. I typically use a Gameshark to disable the blur in most games and it looks pretty darn good. Do you think leaving games as-is and using a sharpness setting of 1 would look better than using the Gameshark to deblur? Obviously, I can test this myself, but thought you might just have some on-hand knowledge.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:27 pm 


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Quote:
I can't really help you there. I never got a Wii. I might have to break down and borrow one from a friend and knock out some Wii profiles as a last hurrah to the Framemeister (my focus has been on the OSSC lately).


FBX, that would be greatly appreciated (not to mention a completed library of profiles) if you ever do decide to do that.

Quote:
Hmm, does your monitor support DVI? I seem to recall DVI mode on the Framemeister has more resolutions beyond 1080p. It might be worth making your own new profile with a resolution that better fits your monitor's native pixel rate.


No DVI connection, just HDMI and DP connections. But this monitor does scale well to other resolutions such as 720p.

Quote:
Yeah Picture should be used for progressive content, and Sharpness at a value of zero (1 should only be used as a deblur function for consoles like the N64 that actually need it.)
But the problem here is your off-spec monitor resolution. Nobody can give you what the zoom settings should be unless they also have a 1440p set up and know what they are doing. However, you can start by going into the Visual_Set options and setting your Scaler mode to "OFF" and changing H_scaler to 5 and V_Scaler to 6. That will give the sharpest 'focus'.


Thanks, FBX! I will definitely play with these settings you suggest. Maybe I'll actually become a pro at this thing. lol..


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:34 pm 


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TooBeaucoup wrote:
FBX, On the topic of Framemeister sharpness. I have an RGB modded N64. I typically use a Gameshark to disable the blur in most games and it looks pretty darn good. Do you think leaving games as-is and using a sharpness setting of 1 would look better than using the Gameshark to deblur? Obviously, I can test this myself, but thought you might just have some on-hand knowledge.


Gameshark is definitely the way to go. FM won't even come close to those results. Gameshark is essentially preventing the blur from happening in the first place. Sharpness 1 won't make an enormous difference and increasing sharpness further will just create artifacts.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:44 pm 


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Kez wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
Gameshark is essentially preventing the blur from happening in the first place. Sharpness 1 won't make an enormous difference and increasing sharpness further will just create artifacts.


I seem to recall the Gameshark gets rid of antialiasing, but does not de-blur, which are two different functions of the N64. The boys at My Life in Gaming did a video on this. Also the Framemeister's sharpness setting of 1 actually makes one hell of a difference when combined with H-Scaler 5 and V-Scaler 6. For example, look at the map graphics in the lower right-hand corner of Ocarina of Time with H-Scaler 5 and V-Scaler 6. Now turn sharpness up to 1 from zero under those same settings. You'll see it does a nice job of debluring the N64. Not as good as the UltraHDMI mod, but nothing the laugh at either.

Edit: Found my example pic of the effect when combined with the scaler settings I mentioned:

Image
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:01 pm 


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Thanks, to you both. I've watched the My Life in Gaming episode, but couldn't remember if the Shark was debluring or just disabling the antialiasing. That map does look good, so I may have to give all of the combined settings a whirl. I'd love an HDMI modded one, but for the price and or work of modding it, I just don't think it's a dramatic enough difference over an RGB mod, for myself.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:29 pm 


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Yeah to be fair I think the gameshark and the sharpness address different issues to some extent so it is definitely worth experimenting with. Obviously preference comes into it too, personally I find sharpness to be a lot less appealing in 3D games generally so it depends what you are looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:34 pm 


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^ Agreed. I go back and forth on whether I want 3D games sharpened or not. Sometimes, I'm really into the look and sometimes, I'm not. The N64 is a damn tricky system to make look good on an HDTV, which is a bummer because it's one of my favorites.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:58 pm 


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pezmed wrote:
I know I can hook my Wii to HD TV component and be done, but I'm using my Asus ROG 27'' IPS monitor to play on and requires the Framemeister's help.


I assume you are using the PG279Q? That is an incredible PC gaming monitor but I believe it is not too hot at upscaling 720 or 1080p (According to this review anyway), so you may struggle to get perfect results.

As FBX suggested, DVI mode may be a better fit. You do not need an actual DVI connection for this, simply switching the FM to DVI mode will allow it to output at other resolutions.

TooBeaucoup wrote:
The N64 is a damn tricky system to make look good on an HDTV


I find the N64 benefits from adding scanlines a great deal, but again that all comes down to preference.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:39 am 


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Quote:
Kez wrote:
pezmed wrote:
I know I can hook my Wii to HD TV component and be done, but I'm using my Asus ROG 27'' IPS monitor to play on and requires the Framemeister's help.


I assume you are using the PG279Q? That is an incredible PC gaming monitor but I believe it is not too hot at upscaling 720 or 1080p (According to this review anyway), so you may struggle to get perfect results.

As FBX suggested, DVI mode may be a better fit. You do not need an actual DVI connection for this, simply switching the FM to DVI mode will allow it to output at other resolutions.


Thanks for that tip. I do have the PG279Q, but the scaling so far on this monitor has been good from what I see. I will give those higher resolutions a try.

I played around with my FM settings. It's weird on the Wii, but I think setting H_scaler = 6 and V_scaler = 5 gave me better results. I set output to 480p, aspect ration to 4:3 and zoom_width = 1. Turned saturation down to 21 and Brightness about 35. Man, this is a fairly nice setting to me so far.

I'll play with the DVI resolutions as well as suggested. Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:38 am 


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So, I must've been using LOAD SELECT before. I just used LOAD ALL and this is what I get. Is this correct? Should the top and bottom bars be that thick? I'm fine with it if that's how it's supposed to be.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:52 am 


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TooBeaucoup wrote:
So, I must've been using LOAD SELECT before. I just used LOAD ALL and this is what I get. Is this correct? Should the top and bottom bars be that thick? I'm fine with it if that's how it's supposed to be.


There will be 60-pixel tall black borders because the vertical res of the GBA is 160, so 6x vertical scale of 160 = 960. 7x would equal 1120, which is above the 1080p limit.
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Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:52 am 


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FBX wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
So, I must've been using LOAD SELECT before. I just used LOAD ALL and this is what I get. Is this correct? Should the top and bottom bars be that thick? I'm fine with it if that's how it's supposed to be.


There will be 60-pixel tall black borders because the vertical res of the GBA is 160, so 6x vertical scale of 160 = 960. 7x would equal 1120, which is above the 1080p limit.


That must be right then. My TV has about a one and a half inch bezel around the screen, so it would appear that the unused space is the proper size. Thanks again, my man!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:06 am 


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FBX wrote:
Possibly, but I don't know for sure. The PS2 profiles are based on what the PS2 should look like at proper calibration for HDMI YCBCR output. Generally though, the D-Terminal input defaults on the Framemeister are wrong. You need to turn the Brightness up quite a bit, and Saturation typically down to a value of 25.


FBX, do you mind explaining how or what all you calibrated for the HDMI YCBCR output? Is this Color_Set and HDMI_Set, etc..?

Under HDMI_Set, Should Output_Color be set to RGB or Auto perhaps (mine is Auto)? Output_Range is set to Full for me.

I turned saturation down for my Wii settings and it helped keep the colors from being over exposed.

I think I've got a much better setting so far than where I started with the Wii.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:31 am 


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pezmed wrote:

FBX, do you mind explaining how or what all you calibrated for the HDMI YCBCR output? Is this Color_Set and HDMI_Set, etc..?

Under HDMI_Set, Should Output_Color be set to RGB or Auto perhaps (mine is Auto)? Output_Range is set to Full for me.



Unfortunately the Framemeister screws up RGB output for RGB input sources (adds in a green bias gain for some reason), so the only way to get proper color output of RGB sources is to use "AUTO" mode. The glitch doesn't happen with D-terminal sources, but obviously it's better to stick with AUTO output so you don't have to keep switching back and forth when using RGB input.

My technique was to start with Resident Evil 2 (PS1 game) and adjust brightness based on a few screens of particularly sensitive dark color areas. Then I cross-referenced the screenshots with RGB versions until the brightness was a match. Then I did the same process for saturation (which 25 ended up being a match for RGB input). Next, I checked PS2 A/D levels by using the memory card browser main menu. There's a sunburst glow effect on the memory card graphic, and the trick was to raise A/D without crushing the horizontal line of graphics that peeks through the sunburst effect. You know your A/D is too high when you can't see that line peeking through it any more. Then I doublechecked with Final Fantasy X in a few light and a few dark scenes to make sure everything looked good.

Try4rce over at My Life in Gaming seemed to be thrilled with the PS2 profiles, as they were almost identical to brightness and color levels of PS4 ports of Code Veronica.
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Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:48 pm 



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FBX wrote:
I might have to break down and borrow one from a friend and knock out some Wii profiles as a last hurrah to the Framemeister (my focus has been on the OSSC lately).

Wii profiles would be very cool.

(I look forward to your OSSC work, but I selfishly hope you aren't totally done with the Framemeister. For instance, it would be fantastic to have more 720p profiles, since they can be better suited for 4K TVs.)


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:50 pm 


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I tried the DVI FM settings with the ASUS ROG PG279Q (native res is 2560 X 1440) and the Wii.

First, I can't seem to go above certain higher resolutions. Maybe because HDMI doesn't support much higher resolution? I need to play with this more and make sure what's happening. It seems to work on some of the higher resolutions above 1080p. Maybe not. The screen blanks out for about 30 seconds but seems to stick at the previous resolution.

More interesting, I could set it to 640 x 480p with DVI. This allowed most of the screen to fill my view with Xenoblade Chronicles (game is 480p).

Isn't 640 x 480p what you would call an integer scale to 2560 X 1440p? This is a 4:3 ratio. I turned zoom off as well since it filled the screen almost.

It actually looks fairly good this way.


Last edited by pezmed on Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:07 am 



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Hi all, I recently got a Framemeister to use with my PS2 and Saturn. I also bought RGB SCART cables wired for CSYNC for both consoles. So far, Saturn and PS2 games look really good with FBX's profiles. However, I haven't been able to figure out why PS1 games seem to have a lot of noise and checkerboard patterns (especially Valkyrie Profile), I don't think this is how it's supposed to be is it?

I took a few pics, not the best quality unfortunately: https://imgur.com/a/ID7rZ


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:47 pm 



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Hi All,

I'm new to this whole thing and wanted to get some input.
I'm interested in purchasing a Framemeister.

But wanted to know if all my standard PAL consoles would work on it ? for example SNES, N64, SATURN etc
I know that i will need to buy a few extra cables, but wanted to know before spending the large sum on one.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:48 pm 


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Roldy wrote:
Hi all, I recently got a Framemeister to use with my PS2 and Saturn. I also bought RGB SCART cables wired for CSYNC for both consoles. So far, Saturn and PS2 games look really good with FBX's profiles. However, I haven't been able to figure out why PS1 games seem to have a lot of noise and checkerboard patterns (especially Valkyrie Profile), I don't think this is how it's supposed to be is it?

I took a few pics, not the best quality unfortunately: https://imgur.com/a/ID7rZ


I don't have experience with that game directly, but PS1 games famously used a lot of dithering and that looks like pretty standard dithering to me. These effects are not so obvious on a CRT, especially with a poor quality video signal (e.g. composite) and will blend together creating extra colours. Your brightness looks a little high though, but that may just be the game or due to the camera.

southsidesilver wrote:
But wanted to know if all my standard PAL consoles would work on it ? for example SNES, N64, SATURN etc
I know that i will need to buy a few extra cables, but wanted to know before spending the large sum on one.


PAL consoles will work generally, but there are a lot less resources available for PAL users - e.g. the scaling in FBX's profiles is not really effective. Region modded (60hz) PAL consoles sometimes have issues with frame skipping and colours. People have successfully used the zoom settings to make the image full-screen, there are a few posts about it in this thread if you care to look!

Also be aware that the OSSC is also available, it is extremely competitive with the FM, superior in a lot of ways and also cheaper. I am not saying it is definitely a better option for you but it is worth researching both to see which one fits you better. For example some N64 and Saturn games have issues with resolution switching on the FM (e.g. Castlevania SOTN Saturn, Resident Evil 2 N64) that make the FM black out for several seconds when opening a menu or something. This issue is not completely eradicated by the OSSC but can be significantly reduced depending on your display.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:37 am 



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I'm not sure if anyone reported it but I think I found a possible solution for the DeepColor issue.
I have problem with this thing since 2007, when I broght my PS3. Apparently the problem was my older HDMI cable. :mrgreen:

For some reason I do not remember, I decided to replace the cable and then I tested the DeepColor function again just for curiosity's sake and voila, the problem is gone. The new cable I'm using is a cheap one who came bundled with my satellite tv decoder.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:16 pm 


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did some more recordings and some comparisons with different hardware combinations and the FrameMeister. overall had a lot of fun. note: Bloody Roar Primal Fury is using 480p forced video output mode with the help of the Swiss homebrew utility. (the game's default video mode is 480i)


images
Image

videos (please set YouTube player to 1080p60 fullscreen for the best quality viewing experience)

1. First video using FBX's GameCube component profile (I turned the mini's sharpness level down to 1 instead of 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMIGit0MCRo&t

2. Second video is direct GameCube 480p (YUV) converted to RGB and then processed/scaled by the DVDO VP50Pro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FViTieXjoUY&t

3. Third video is the same as the first, but this time the frameMeister (with FBX profile/reduced sharpness) is being processed by the VP50 Pro (mostly just to stretch the video to full screen) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXceao3aBfw&t


any comments, hints or tips are welcome. thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 pm 



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This is is driving me up the wall. I am loading Dreamcast Toro profile, and all I get is a black screen with the music playing in the background.

Any ideas what's wrong please? I even tried changing sync level.... nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:59 pm 


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Everblue wrote:
Any ideas what's wrong please? I even tried changing sync level.... nothing.


Only other thing I can think of is the sync combiner is switched off? Its the switch kind of in the middle of the board that is quite hard to get to.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:57 am 



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It is not exactly a Toro but it is a device which does the same thing (except for the scanlines). When I select "default" profile I can view the Dreamcast picture but when it switches to 480p I just get a black picture with music playing in the background.

If I select Toro profile, what when DC is 240p mode I can see a picture but it jumps around all over the place. As soon as it switches to 480p it goes black with music playing in the background as well.

When in 480p I have checked status and it says that input is 720 x 240p which I think it's weird.

Any ideas?

PS. The guy who makes these has sold many and this is the first time there are issues.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:47 am 


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Hmm.. not sure then. Do you have any more information about the device? Does it have a web page or anything? Also does the VGA mode work on any other device (e.g. a monitor)?

FBX says his Toro profile is not compatible with other consoles, so it may also be incompatible with your device or at least incompatible with the 480i/240p it produces.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:46 pm 


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Everblue wrote:
It is not exactly a Toro but it is a device which does the same thing (except for the scanlines). When I select "default" profile I can view the Dreamcast picture but when it switches to 480p I just get a black picture with music playing in the background.

If I select Toro profile, what when DC is 240p mode I can see a picture but it jumps around all over the place. As soon as it switches to 480p it goes black with music playing in the background as well.

When in 480p I have checked status and it says that input is 720 x 240p which I think it's weird.

Any ideas?

PS. The guy who makes these has sold many and this is the first time there are issues.


The Toro's output is an extreme case that will cause a black screen on the output if you try the profile with any other device. Thus, it is not compatible with anything other than the Toro.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:54 pm 



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I think my framemister may have died. I get a wierd solid pink screen. There is sound. I have tried everything I could think of, I've gone back to a previous firmware and back. Changed every setting, tried every input. Like I said I think it may be dead, but any ideas would be welcome.


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