XRGB-mini Framemeister

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elevengames
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by elevengames »

Kez wrote:It may be worth trying to increase the sync_level setting if you haven't already. The signal coming from the Selecty might not be as strong as the one direct from the Toro.
This is exactly what it was. Raising the sync level from 9 to 10 allowed the RGB signal to pass through, but not VGA. Raising it from 10 to 11 allows them both to work. Thank you so much!
Moore
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Moore »

I've lurked here a bit, but haven't seen this come up before. Has anyone tried using the Framemeister to apply scanlines to an HDMI source?

I primarily am using my Framemeister with my original SNES console, but recently purchased the new SNES Classic to tinker around with. I was trying to add scanlines to the 720p hdmi signal via the Framemeister, but I can't seem to get them to turn on. In the special settings, I have the usual option to turn scanlines on and off, but it doesn't affect the image.

Is it not possible for the Framemeister to apply scanlines to an HDMI source?
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

I believe you cannot add scanlines to a source on the FM unless it is actually upscaling it. I'm not sure if the SNES Classic can output 480p but if so you could do 480p > FM > 720p scanlined.
Moore
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Moore »

Kez wrote:I believe you cannot add scanlines to a source on the FM unless it is actually upscaling it. I'm not sure if the SNES Classic can output 480p but if so you could do 480p > FM > 720p scanlined.
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, the SNES Classic doesn't have options for different output resolutions. I did try upscaling the 720p signal to 1080p via the Framemeister as a test, but still no scanlines.
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

Yeah just did some experimenting with the Wii U, I am able to add scanlines to 480p but not 720p with the FM.
Moore
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Moore »

Kez wrote:Yeah just did some experimenting with the Wii U, I am able to add scanlines to 480p but not 720p with the FM.
Alright cool, thanks for checking it out. It seems to be a feature for SD signals only then.
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

Moore wrote:Alright cool, thanks for checking it out. It seems to be a feature for SD signals only then.
If you plan to or have already hacked your SNES classic, I think there is a way to add scanlines without the blur filter.
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FBX
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by FBX »

It took SIX HOURS last night, but I finished knocking out the full assortment of PS2 profiles, These are updated to proper calibration of A/D and brightness levels. Here are the details of what has been added to the zip:

Code: Select all

All of the PS2 profiles below are set to component input by default, but the 480i and PS1 mode profiles will work with RGB cables if you press the RGB button on your remote after loading the profile. Once you see the RGB signal coming in after that, you can re-save the profile so it will load from RGB by default next time. However, it is recommended that you use component cables for the PS2. They look every bit as good as RGB with these profiles, and you get the added benefit of easy access to 480p mode game features.


70PS2IS2   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480i Component and RGB output 2X vertical scaled, sharp pixels.

71PS2ISW   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480i Component and RGB output 2X vertical scaled, 16:9 AR, sharp pixels.

72PS2IB2   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480i Component and RGB output 2X vertical scaled, smooth edges.

73PS2IBW   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480i Component and RGB output 2X vertical scaled, 16:9 AR, smooth edges.

74PS2PS2   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480p Component output 2X vertical scaled, sharp pixels.

75PS2PSW   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480p Component output 2X vertical scaled, 16:9 AR, sharp pixels.

76PS2PB2   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480p Component output 2X vertical scaled, smooth edges.

77PS2PBW   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480p Component output 2X vertical scaled, 16:9 AR, smooth edges.


Profiles below are based on "SSX 3" game graphics:


78PS2IF    --  NTSC Sony PS2 480i Component and RGB output 4:3 fullscreen with smooth edges.

79PS2IFW   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480i Component and RGB output 16:9 anamorphic with smooth edges.

80PS2PF    --  NTSC Sony PS2 480p Component output 4:3 fullscreen with smooth edges.

81PS2PFW   --  NTSC Sony PS2 480p Component output 16:9 anamorphic with smooth edges.


Profiles below are for playing PS1 games on your PS2:


82PS214X   --  NTSC Sony PS2's PS1 mode 240p Component and RGB Output 4X vertical scaled.

83PS215X   --  NTSC Sony PS2's PS1 mode 240p Component and RGB Output 5X vertical scaled.
A monumental task and a PITA, but it's finally done. Enjoy!

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... -10-24.zip


-FBX
jamisonia
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by jamisonia »

Thanks FBX. Also thanks for answering my question before. I started using Deep Color profiles which do with my setup. My AVR recognizes them as 32 bit color instead of 24 bit or something like that. I haven't noticed a huge difference, but knowing those are the technically better ones, I'll keep using them. I've noticed adjusting Auto to Standard 16-235 RGB to NonStandard 0-255 RGB seems to be make no difference no matter the source I do it on.
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FBX
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by FBX »

jamisonia wrote: I've noticed adjusting Auto to Standard 16-235 RGB to NonStandard 0-255 RGB seems to be make no difference no matter the source I do it on.
That's because I have the Framemeister set to output YCBCR HDMI, which ignores the RGB color space of your TV settings. This is beneficial in two ways:

1. It allows me to ensure the brightness and other color settings will be universal.

2. The Framemeister screws up RGB HDMI output for RGB sources by adding in a green bias. This bias is absent when forcing YCBCR HDMI output.
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Blair
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Blair »

did some more recordings and some comparisons with different hardware combinations and the FrameMeister. overall had a lot of fun


images
Image

videos (please set YouTube player to 1080p60 fullscreen for the best quality viewing experience)

1. first test using FBX's latest PS2 component sharp profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv1pQkv8eiE

2. second test using FBX's latest PS2 component smooth profile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faEH8WwpDPM

3. third, my attempt to get a decent looking image out of DOA2's video output with the GSM rendering app in HD 1080i mode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7eJNNJmkUE

any comments, hints or tips are welcome. thanks!
Last edited by Blair on Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Fudoh »

When you output 1080i using GSM, what happens to the line mapping on the PS2's output side ? are the original 480 lines per frame mapped 1:1 into a 1080i field ? I'm asking since your active video picture seems larger in size on your 1080i video than it does when you're using 480i from the PS2.
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Blair
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Blair »

Right, FBX's profiles have quite a bit of underscan showing when I load them up. but the 1080p and 1080i output from the PS2/GSM seems to be recognized as wide and a little bit larger than normal (less underscan?) at least depending on the game. so the main thing I adjusted was the H and V scaler as well as the horizontal zoom.

most of the other PS2 versions of DOA2 can be forced into 480p or higher, but this final Japanese exclusive version of the game only seems to work with GSM 1080i.

mainly wanted to see how it would affect some of the interlacing (infrequent) errors that the FM gets with certain patterns. (like the brickwork in the cathedral stage)
baka
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by baka »

Sorry guys, lame question. Do scannlines work trough the hdmi? I want to connect the ps3 via hdmi and use scannlines. Thank you!
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

If you set the PS3 to output 480p and upscale to 720p with the framemeister you can add reasonable scanlines.
baka
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by baka »

Kez wrote:If you set the PS3 to output 480p and upscale to 720p with the framemeister you can add reasonable scanlines.
Thank you! ;)
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by TooBeaucoup »

FBX, What would you recommend is the best way to get close to full screen output out of my Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance games? I use Swiss to force 240p and I've tried some of your Gameboy profiles but they don't seem to fill the screen enough. Maybe I'm trying the wrong ones.
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

Using the GBI-LL-Framemeister.dol included in FBX's profile pack alongside the 23GBPB7X profile, GBC games fill the screen perfectly vertically. For GBA I use the 5 or 6x scaling depending on the game - 19GBPA5X and 20GBPA6X respectively.
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FBX
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by FBX »

TooBeaucoup wrote:FBX, What would you recommend is the best way to get close to full screen output out of my Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance games? I use Swiss to force 240p and I've tried some of your Gameboy profiles but they don't seem to fill the screen enough. Maybe I'm trying the wrong ones.
You'll just want to use the 7x profile for Game Boy, and 6x profile for Game Boy Advance. Although keep in mind they are tailor-made for the custom GBI-LL I include in the package. This special version of GBI-LL has pixel scale forced to 1:1 so that there is no 'shimmer' in the graphics of Game Boy games (because Extrems for some reason thought software aspect correction should be the default setting in his official releases).

I also want to point out that these profiles focus on vertical integer scaling. That's critical for smooth scrolling and scanlines, so if they don't fill the screen, there's a very good reason for the borders.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by TooBeaucoup »

^ Thanks, very much, to you both. These profiles look quite fantastic! It's amazing how great GBC and GBA games can look on an HDTV. Just one clarification, are these profiles meant to load up windowed and I have to manually set zoom and overscan levels to where I want them?
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FBX
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by FBX »

TooBeaucoup wrote:^ Thanks, very much, to you both. These profiles look quite fantastic! It's amazing how great GBC and GBA games can look on an HDTV. Just one clarification, are these profiles meant to load up windowed and I have to manually set zoom and overscan levels to where I want them?
?? Uhh, no? They are 1080p profiles with everything already set for 1080p TVs.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Weird. I have my TV's image mode set to pixel for pixel, like I always do, all of my other consoles look perfect with your profiles, going through the Framemeister, I load the custom GBI-LL from your zip folder, then load your GBC and GBA profiles, but for some reason, GBC and GBA games display like this...

Image
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

Yeah, that's not right.

I would suggest re-downloading the profiles and replacing them, also make sure you are using LOAD_ALL when opening a profile. Check that zoom is enabled in your FM settings, if it isn't then the profile isn't loading properly.
Everblue
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Everblue »

Today I have noticed that 4K 2017 Panasonic TVs have a picture option called 4pixel which doubles the pixel size vertically and horizontally with 0 interpolation on 1080p signal, perfect for FM. The downside is that the option is not available on game mode.

If I had to select 4pixel and manually disable all post processing crap how far off from game mode would I be, in terms of input lag? Why would choosing 4pixel disable game mode?
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pezmed
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by pezmed »

FBX or anyone. I would appreciate some advice on using the Wii through the FM.

I've got my Wii connected via component using D-Terminal.

I'm playing Xenobalde Chronicles which supposedly uses 16:9 anamorphic and 480p.

I just want to know what the best FM settings are for this situation. I don't care for the widescreen more than I would rather like to have as sharp an image possible with little jaggies.

I know I can hook my Wii to HD TV component and be done, but I'm using my Asus ROG 27'' IPS monitor to play on and requires the Framemeister's help.

I've played around with my settings and have a decent picture but I notice some anomalies with color shifting such as the ground where the colors might be solid and consistent.

Would FBX's PS2 480p profiles be a helpful starting point here for color accuracy?

Is it better to set my output on FM to 480p, 720p, etc..? ROG monitor has native 1440p so not sure what is best here. Should I just set Wii to output 480i?

What about vertical and horizontal scale settings? Should zoom be used? Aspect ratio?

I do know everyone does suggest Picture mode and Sharpness 0 or 1 value.

Any one that has a profile for the Wii to share or can suggest what FM settings are best for the Wii would be greatly appreciated. I'm really green at all this and only know a little about all these settings.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Kez wrote:Yeah, that's not right.

I would suggest re-downloading the profiles and replacing them, also make sure you are using LOAD_ALL when opening a profile. Check that zoom is enabled in your FM settings, if it isn't then the profile isn't loading properly.
So when I load the profiles, zoom should enable itself with the profile, is what you're saying?
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

https://youtu.be/2py-wAFRl7E

Yes exactly, here's a video I made of my setup.
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TooBeaucoup
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Kez wrote:https://youtu.be/2py-wAFRl7E

Yes exactly, here's a video I made of my setup.
Thanks much! Yeah, my SNES, Genesis, and Playstation 1 profiles all load just fine, but for whatever reason, these Gameboy ones keep loading as windowed. I don't get it.
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Kez
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by Kez »

There are only two things I can think of that would cause that:

1 - If you use LOAD_SELECT instead of LOAD, it will not apply the zoom settings. This is a lot less noticeable with the consoles you mentioned as you will still get a full-screen image, just without the integer scaling offered by FBX's profiles.

2 - You may have hit the SAVE options instead of LOAD, which would overwrite the profile with your current settings. In this case you would need to re-download the profile and put it on the SD card again.
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FBX
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Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister

Post by FBX »

TooBeaucoup wrote:
Kez wrote:Yeah, that's not right.

I would suggest re-downloading the profiles and replacing them, also make sure you are using LOAD_ALL when opening a profile. Check that zoom is enabled in your FM settings, if it isn't then the profile isn't loading properly.
So when I load the profiles, zoom should enable itself with the profile, is what you're saying?
Yeah you need to use "Load", not "Load_Select" because "Load" turns on zoom settings and ensures all settings are loaded and activated.

If you still get a small screen with the 7x profile, let me know what zoom values are loaded into memory and I'll double-check on my end to make sure it isn't a mistake in the profile.

pezmed wrote:FBX or anyone. I would appreciate some advice on using the Wii through the FM.

I've got my Wii connected via component using D-Terminal.

I'm playing Xenobalde Chronicles which supposedly uses 16:9 anamorphic and 480p.
My profiles are for 720 or 1080p monitors, but you might could give the PS2 480 widescreen profile a try and experiment with. The scaling won't be correct, but should give the right aspect ratio in any case. I found you can set the aspect ratio to 4:3 and then turn on ZOOM and set ZOOM_WIDTH to a value of 1 and that is almost exactly 16:9 (at least for the PS2). You can push it to zero if you want it a little wider.
I just want to know what the best FM settings are for this situation. I don't care for the widescreen more than I would rather like to have as sharp an image possible with little jaggies.

I know I can hook my Wii to HD TV component and be done, but I'm using my Asus ROG 27'' IPS monitor to play on and requires the Framemeister's help.
I can't really help you there. I never got a Wii. I might have to break down and borrow one from a friend and knock out some Wii profiles as a last hurrah to the Framemeister (my focus has been on the OSSC lately).
I've played around with my settings and have a decent picture but I notice some anomalies with color shifting such as the ground where the colors might be solid and consistent.

Would FBX's PS2 480p profiles be a helpful starting point here for color accuracy?
Possibly, but I don't know for sure. The PS2 profiles are based on what the PS2 should look like at proper calibration for HDMI YCBCR output. Generally though, the D-Terminal input defaults on the Framemeister are wrong. You need to turn the Brightness up quite a bit, and Saturation typically down to a value of 25.

Is it better to set my output on FM to 480p, 720p, etc..? ROG monitor has native 1440p so not sure what is best here. Should I just set Wii to output 480i?
Hmm, does your monitor support DVI? I seem to recall DVI mode on the Framemeister has more resolutions beyond 1080p. It might be worth making your own new profile with a resolution that better fits your monitor's native pixel rate.
I do know everyone does suggest Picture mode and Sharpness 0 or 1 value.

Any one that has a profile for the Wii to share or can suggest what FM settings are best for the Wii would be greatly appreciated. I'm really green at all this and only know a little about all these settings.
Yeah Picture should be used for progressive content, and Sharpness at a value of zero (1 should only be used as a deblur function for consoles like the N64 that actually need it.)
But the problem here is your off-spec monitor resolution. Nobody can give you what the zoom settings should be unless they also have a 1440p set up and know what they are doing. However, you can start by going into the Visual_Set options and setting your Scaler mode to "OFF" and changing H_scaler to 5 and V_Scaler to 6. That will give the sharpest 'focus'.
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