XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

As long as your display handles 12-bit DC fine, you're set. You might run into trouble in case you're planing to chain up the Mini to some other VP.

[Plasia]

Rettro Access: As I said, I have this model:

NTSC-J
SEGA SEGA SATURN
MODEL NO. HST-3220

The colours look fine, it's just that horizontal messing up, which makes me think it's the sync.

I'm going to make a little adapter with a 220uf cap and see if that solves it.

[Konsolkongen]

As long as your display handles 12-bit DC fine, you're set. You might run into trouble in case you're planing to chain up the Mini to some other VP.

The DVDO Edge says it outputs 36-bit. What's the difference?

If anyone is looking for a good RGB switching solution the Extron RGBHV Matrix's does a wonderful job of this. It involves soldering as many RGB to BNC adapters as one needs, but the end result is great with no real visible picture quality loss Only problem is that the Extron will ONLY work with c.sync, but in case of my Dreamcast with original RGB cable, it was as simple as adding a LM1881 circuit to the cable

My Extron can do sync processing on half it's inputs, and even though it seems like a nice feature it should be turned off for RGBs usage. I was very puzzled that the MegaDrive's picture was bending a little in several places, but luckily it was fixed by switching off the sync processing. And the picture is still perfectly stable

The DIP switches on the back are used for this. 75ohm means sync processing and 510ohm means no processing. I thought it was the other way around, which is why I didn't try these switches immidiately when I first saw the problem in the MegaDrive's picture...

Oh and the Extron does perfect component and VGA switching as well

[Fudoh]

The DVDO Edge says it outputs 36-bit. What's the difference?

nothing, 12-bit per luma/color channel (3x12=36). If you feed 12-bit into the Edge it gets downconverted before processing.

If the Extron does component switching, it makes me wonder why RGBs with composite video doesn't work. Technically "Y" in the YPbPr signal is quite similar to composite video. You could try using another pin for switching. When using YUV, you use the RGB channels ? Or do you use R/B/HS ? Try routing the sync through the same input you're using for Y. (Or the other way around, try Y on the HS input and see if it still works).

[Konsolkongen]

If the Extron does component switching, it makes me wonder why RGBs with composite video doesn't work. Technically "Y" in the YPbPr signal is quite similar to composite video. You could try using another pin for switching. When using YUV, you use the RGB channels ? Or do you use R/B/HS ? Try routing the sync through the same input you're using for Y. (Or the other way around, try Y on the HS input and see if it still works).

I tried that, and it does indeed work, but then the colors are a little off. I.e. if I run sync through the blue pin, and blue through H sync, the image is a little more blueish than it should be.

EDIT: I guess this could be because it was sync processing one of the colors... Anyway I want C.sync for all my systems just in case.

If I one day run out of good games to play, or I get severe brain damage, and decide to get myself a N64. Does that system support C.sync as well if I RGB modify it? /joke...?

[shinjig]

I ordered my own mini but was wondering if someone could recommend a fast vga to component/hdmi converter. I have some naomi boards coming in that I may want to output to this. Or at the very least run a few cga arcade games through the cga to vga scaler (might make some games that normally run at odd refresh rates more compatable...).

[Fudoh]

Best VGA to Component converter is the Kramer FC-14. The Best VGA to DVI/HDMI is the Gefen VGA to DVI/HDMI Scaler Plus. There are acceptable VGA to component converters from the same manufacturer that does the HDBoxPro clones (they also look just like the HDBox units).

[Fudoh]

few more findings:

Chroma Shift in reds on the PS2 is present when the Mini's output is set to YCbCr (Color mode setting AUTO). The shift is completely gone when the output is set to RGB instead. [I would usually say this is a display issue, but since I see nothing like it from any other processor on my display, I blame the Mini. Maybe somebody else can confirm this by testing both output modes. Other displays might behave differently.]

PICTURE mode basically deactivates the deinterlacer (simple 2:2 weave on 60Hz signals). This is nice for 30fps 2D titles (e.g. the Metal Slug single releases on the PS2, which are 480i60 with 30fps). It's also interesting for 480i60 titles with 60fps (e.g. Dragon Blaze, Sengoku Ace or many classic compilations (Taito)). With 60fps and picture mode and unadjusted scaler settings you get the usual combing errors all the time. Instead of switching to Standard mode (which gives heavy diagonal enhancement) or Game mode (which gives screen trembling) you can adjust the scaler settings. If you up the V_SCALER to something between 8 and 10, the combing effects are gone and while the picture gets a bit softer, it's imo still nicer than Standard or Game modes.

[Plasia]

Argh, we need a compilation of all these best settings and de-interlacer discoveries.

[gar3]

Hi all - Just got the Frame Meister this morning; however, the menu is not entirely in English as I was informed. Is there a button press or menu option to change it over from Japanese to English? I had my Japanese wife take a look at the manual and as far as she could tell it wasn't in there either

[Konsolkongen]

Update the firmware

http://micomsoft.co.jp/XRGBminiV1.04E.zip

[gar3]

Doh
Thanks

[Shining]

Maybe this has already been answered, but here goes:

1. Is it worth getting for a 55" LED LCD?

2. Will this Meister of Frames work out of the box with the following consoles with western RGB scart cables:
US SNES, US Genesis Model 1, US PSOne, JAP Duo-RX(RGB modded), Famicom A/V(composite)

3. How do you connect a Wii(component) to the Frame Meister? Will there be big improvements for 480i/480p signals?

4. Is it compatible with european power sockets without using a converter?

Thanks!

[Konsolkongen]

1. Yes.

2. No, you will need a SCART to RGB21 converter or resolder the RGB cable that comes with the Mini.

3. You connect Wii through the D-terminal input in the back. You'll need an adapter for this. Solaris has those as well. Improvement really depends on how well your TV scales the Wii already. Keep in mind that the Wii's output (even component) is shit, and there is only so much you can do. On my display it looks better with the Mini than what my TV does. But it currently only works with 60Hz games.

4. No you'll need a 240V > 120V stepdown converter.

[RGB32E]

Maybe this has already been answered, but here goes:

1. Is it worth getting for a 55" LED LCD?

Absolutely!

2. Will this Meister of Frames work out of the box with the following consoles with western RGB scart cables:
US SNES, US Genesis Model 1, US PSOne, JAP Duo-RX(RGB modded), Famicom A/V(composite)

As Konsolkongen stated.

3. How do you connect a Wii(component) to the Frame Meister? Will there be big improvements for 480i/480p signals?

You can use a D-Terminal adapter, or just use the Official Nintendo D-Terminal cable (what I do). You could order one from http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-10u ... -1mwh.html. Kinda spendy these days, but you won't have to deal with the possiblity of an adapter causing problems!

4. Is it compatible with european power sockets without using a converter?

You could just get a quality +5VDC 3A AC adapter (wired correctly of course), and bypass the need for a stepdown. Have any of you guys in Europe found an AC adapter/power supply you like?

[Konsolkongen]

I should have some 5V PSU's around that would work fine, but I haven't really thought of using them. I use a stepdown converter already for my Saturn so it's just as easy to connect it there too

[Moosmann]

Unfortunately the Sync-Input (from the 8-Din RGB in) is really very, very bad.

Some SNES/SFC Series don`t work, Dreamcast don`t work, First Gen. PS1 don`t work etc. and some Systems work with dropouts e.g. Mega Drive or earlier SFC.

I use an LM1881 and >all< Systems work fine. But the other Problem, the official Dreamcast RGB Cable use 12V or the official PAL PS1 RGB Cable have resistors on Pin 8, so it is not possible to make an simple Syncseparator with Power from the Console. It need an extra Power Supply for the LM1881 to make it working with all RGB Cable kinds (official and 3rd Party).

I also make some measurements (friday or saturday) with an oscilloscope to find out the reason for the dropouts.

The big question: Why do this company release an untested beta product for 38 000 Yen ? Estimate half from all my Consoles works only with an LM1881.

Greetings Markus

[Shining]

2. No, you will need a SCART to RGB21 converter or resolder the RGB cable that comes with the Mini.

Will this one do? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB- ... 2eba688d02
I'm not that good with soldering

You can use a D-Terminal adapter, or just use the Official Nintendo D-Terminal cable (what I do). You could order one from http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-10u ... -1mwh.html. Kinda spendy these days, but you won't have to deal with the possiblity of an adapter causing problems!

This adapter should do the trick, right? And the audio L/R goes directly into the Meister? It's a lot cheaper than the official cable
http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/D% ... le%29.html

Now i have even more questions!

1. Hooking up a US PSOne(SCPH-101) with a RGB cable should not be a problem, right?

2. What is this XSync-1 thing? Do i need it?

3. I've learned that there are different revisions of the US SNES. I have one of the earlier models i think, with the "EJECT" painted on the console. Has it been confirmed that the newer model with the same text molded into the console has sharper/better image quality?

[retr0gamer]

Both of those adapters are correct -- I'm using them both.

[RGB32E]

This adapter should do the trick, right? And the audio L/R goes directly into the Meister? It's a lot cheaper than the official cable
http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/D% ... le%29.html

Now i have even more questions!

1. Hooking up a US PSOne(SCPH-101) with a RGB cable should not be a problem, right?

I haven't tried a SCPH-101, but my SCPH-5501 doesn't display unless I run it through an XSYNC-1. However, one of the PS2s I tried works just fine. YMMV.

2. What is this XSync-1 thing? Do i need it?

It's a sync stripper and distribution amplifier (powered splitter). The 8 pin din outputs RGBS and the HD15 outputs RGBHV. It's useful for making devices show up that wouldn't otherwise... but you could also use some sort of other sync cleaning option as well (e.g. Extron RGB). Micomsoft doesn't sell 8 pin din to 8 pin mini din cables, so I made one myself!

3. I've learned that there are different revisions of the US SNES. I have one of the earlier models i think, with the "EJECT" painted on the console. Has it been confirmed that the newer model with the same text molded into the console has sharper/better image quality?

Yeah, while I've had a nice clean output with the newer rev (original case without cart lock mech), others haven't had the same quality of RGB output... So finding a SNES with good RGB output is tricky (trial and error). Older SNES models are pretty much guaranteed to have darker/fuzzier RGB output. Nothing horrible, but not ideal.

[darthcloud]

Yeah, while I've had a nice clean output with the newer rev (original case without cart lock mech), others haven't had the same quality of RGB output... So finding a SNES with good RGB output is tricky (trial and error). Older SNES models are pretty much guaranteed to have darker/fuzzier RGB output. Nothing horrible, but not ideal.

So you mean the latest revision before the SNES2 (sfcjr) with the SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 board right?

Would be cool if everyone could check their SNES/SFC board revision and tell the result.

Here all know revision, I have two version myself . I tested with 2 original SHVC-010 cable (One using composite sync and the other using composite video) with the same results.

NTSC:
SHVC-CPU-01
SNS-CPU-GPM-01
SNS-CPU-GPM-02 => Darker color with ringing
SNS-CPU-RGB-01
SNS-CPU-RGB-02 => Brighter color with ringing
SNS-CPU-APU-01
SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01
SNN-CPU-01 (SNES Jr)

PAL:
SNSP-CPU-01
SNSP-CPU-02
SNSP-CPU-1CHIP-01
SNSP-CPU-1CHIP-02

[Konsolkongen]

The US SNES 2 has a very sharp image but has ghosting on the right side of object. Especially noticeable on white backgrounds.

This model has to be modified for RGB, and it suffers from flickering colors which I have not been able to fix :/

[darthcloud]

The US SNES 2 has a very sharp image but has ghosting on the right side of object. Especially noticeable on white backgrounds.

This model has to be modified for RGB, and it suffers from flickering colors which I have not been able to fix :/

Really, I was expecting it to be the best one from some report I've saw over digitalpress.

Are the RGB line driven correctly with 75 ohm resistor and 220µF cap?

[Konsolkongen]

They are. I have even followed the schematics on the regular SNES to mimic the components needed on the RGB output. It requires a little more work than just the 75ohm resistors, but it actually doesn't make any difference.

A friend of mine has a late model US SNES. It has the same ghosting (I'm not talking about the black shadows seen on earlier models) but it's colors doesn't flicker at all. The ghosting is pretty annoying though so I would actually prefer one of the old models.

[RGB32E]

The cat is out of the bag....

[RGB32E]

The US SNES 2 has a very sharp image but has ghosting on the right side of object. Especially noticeable on white backgrounds.

This model has to be modified for RGB, and it suffers from flickering colors which I have not been able to fix :/

Really, I was expecting it to be the best one from some report I've saw over digitalpress.

Are the RGB line driven correctly with 75 ohm resistor and 220µF cap?

I've done that mod as well... It was very sharp, but had ghosting. I tried adding caps to ground on the output (like the snes normally would, but I couldn't get rid of the ghosting. However, I never tried different values, so perhaps that could be key. I think I should try a 1000pf caps next... assuming I get around to it!

IIRC, I think I tried 22pf caps for the LPF (1st order), so the frequencies it was filtering were not low enough... Hmmm...

[darthcloud]

The cat is out of the bag....

Thanks for the info!!

My hunt for an SNS-CPU-1CHIP-01 is officially started!

Any distinctive attribute on the case to recognized it easily? (Pics would be cool )

[Shining]

Both of those adapters are correct -- I'm using them both.

Great, thanks.

I haven't tried a SCPH-101, but my SCPH-5501 doesn't display unless I run it through an XSYNC-1.

Do you think this can be fixed with a future firmware update? If not, i guess i may have to hunt one of these down.

Yeah, while I've had a nice clean output with the newer rev (original case without cart lock mech), others haven't had the same quality of RGB output... So finding a SNES with good RGB output is tricky (trial and error). Older SNES models are pretty much guaranteed to have darker/fuzzier RGB output. Nothing horrible, but not ideal.

Hm, i always thought the RGB output on my SNES looked a tiny little bit blurrier than on my Genesis. I think i'll get a second SNES and hope for the best


Final question about the FM(hopefully):

If i want to, will i be able to use a strecthed widescreen image(filling up the whole screen of my TV) using older consoles, or is the image fixed at a 4:3 ratio?

[Konsolkongen]

You can stretch it to 16:9 as well.

[Overkill]

I just received the usual newsletter from Solaris Japan (sellers of Xrgb) and it seems that they are making a 30$ price drop on the new xrgb-mini Framemeister. "SPECIAL OFFER!
The new upscaler from Micomsoft now cheaper than ever!" Don't know if i will wait much more to buy one