XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Artemio]

BTW, I do have potentiometers in my SuperGUN... But I didn't see an option to compensate for the 220ohm resistors on RGB lines, is there one? or should this be compensated otherwise?

On another note, I've started rearranging the Wiki, adding sections and some references on each system page... as well as entries for sync separator.. a lot of work is needed, so if you have the time and something you want expanded all help is welcome.

[franjipane]

That must be it but that is really weird, on the base it says HAA-2510 which is the Japanese model number, but it is running at 50hz! I'll check out that mod, thanks folks.

[Fudoh]

Your Mega Drive was imported to HK for PAL region sales in the late 80s. That was before official PAL models were available. This was kinda "semi-official" as it was done with Sega's permission. Those exact same models were on sale here in Germany and other PAL countries through import stores. You could chose between "raw" NTSC models and those ones.

[Konsolkongen]

Awww yeah! I got pure MVS goodness up and running It was the shitty RGB plugs I used. This new one is super overkill but what the hell

With V-sync set to Auto the Mini outputs in 60Hz, and the stuttering is slightly less noticeable than my old scaler chain where the DVDO Edge did the framerate conversion. Incredible

With V-sync set to OFF, the stuttering is extreme and I would say most games are unplayable.

EDIT: And as one would have come to expect from the Mini the picture is PERFECT. God damn I love this thing!

EDIT 2: How the hell is the Mini able to convert the framerate from 59.18Hz to 60Hz and still only have a delay of 1.6ms? The DVDO Edge added 25ms in gamemode when doing this, AND the Mini does a better job?!

EDIT 3: Ah it does seem to change the delay alot. Varies from 1.20 to 9ms. Still VERY impressive

[Fudoh]

With V-sync set to Auto the Mini outputs in 60Hz

no, it does not. With auto v-sync the output always shows 60Hz on the info screen, but it's actually locked to the input, so with v-sync auto your output is HDMI at 59.18Hz, just like the input. If you get slight stuttering with this, maybe your Panasonic converts the framerate to 60Hz by itself ?

[RGB32E]

RGB32E, have you tried using your XSYNC-1 with a PlayStation RGB scart cable? I also have an XSYNC-1 with a PlayStation 1 SCPH-1050 scart cable and noticed that 480i comes in as 672x504i. But when using normal YUV component cable, it comes in as 640x480i. Just wanted to know if you encountered the same thing?

I can check. Was the 480i (672x504i) from the dashboard, or during a particular game? Which playstation model (actual model number SCPH-*) were you using?

BTW, I do have potentiometers in my SuperGUN... But I didn't see an option to compensate for the 220ohm resistors on RGB lines, is there one? or should this be compensated otherwise?

On another note, I've started rearranging the Wiki, adding sections and some references on each system page... as well as entries for sync separator.. a lot of work is needed, so if you have the time and something you want expanded all help is welcome.

I'm using pretty much the same setup I was using for the XRGB-3, just a different cable (DB15F to MDIN8 instead of DB15F to HD15M). I use fixed resistors (1% metal oxide) in both cables, as I want to ensure that RGB levels are consistent! I use 160 ohm resistors by default (in series for R/G/B), but with a CPS2/3, it might be ideal to use 220 ohm resistors instead. The RGBS(Ground) wires from my jamma harness connect directly to a DB15M connector (no resistors). I originally configured it this way so I could make a short and direct connection to my XAV-2s.

I'll have to check out the Wiki and see what I can contribute! I think there'll have to be some sort of model number compat chart or something, as the various PS1 models behave differently with the mini.

With V-sync set to Auto the Mini outputs in 60Hz

no, it does not. With auto v-sync the output always shows 60Hz on the info screen, but it's actually locked to the input, so with v-sync auto your output is HDMI at 59.18Hz, just like the input. If you get slight stuttering with this, maybe your Panasonic converts the framerate to 60Hz by itself ?

It doesn't always show 60Hz on the output status screen for me! Depending upon the source input, I've seen a range of output frequencies with VLOCK.

[Fudoh]

It doesn't always show 60Hz on the output status screen for me! Depending upon the source input, I've seen a range of output frequencies with VLOCK.

ok, then this was changed with the FW update. When I was testing with a MVS the Mini was always showing 60Hz with vlock, but my NEC LCD showed an incoming refresh of 59.1Hz.

[Konsolkongen]

With V-sync set to Auto the Mini outputs in 60Hz

no, it does not. With auto v-sync the output always shows 60Hz on the info screen, but it's actually locked to the input, so with v-sync auto your output is HDMI at 59.18Hz, just like the input. If you get slight stuttering with this, maybe your Panasonic converts the framerate to 60Hz by itself ?

That sounds really strange, because when I tried connecting my Desktop PC with HDMI to TV, and forced the refresh to 59Hz it didn't work at all.

EDIT: MVS > Mini > Edge. The Edge says 60Hz.

[Fudoh]

Has anybody tried yet to downgrade the firmware ? Would be interesting to see if the MVS behaves differently with the 1.03 FW on your setup. I absolutely guarantee you that I didn't have the slightest stutter with the MVS and the output was actually locked at 59.18Hz. Unfortunately I don't have the MVS on hand anymore. Probably time to get one for myself....

[Artemio]

With V-sync set to Auto the Mini outputs in 60Hz

no, it does not. With auto v-sync the output always shows 60Hz on the info screen, but it's actually locked to the input, so with v-sync auto your output is HDMI at 59.18Hz, just like the input. If you get slight stuttering with this, maybe your Panasonic converts the framerate to 60Hz by itself ?

That sounds really strange, because when I tried connecting my Desktop PC with HDMI to TV, and forced the refresh to 59Hz it didn't work at all.

EDIT: MVS > Mini > Edge. The Edge says 60Hz.

However, it supports what I saw. My TV couldn't display the MVS while using v-sync, could without it. And the DVDO Edge could in both cases, but added a 25 ms delay when v-sync was on.

[Konsolkongen]

Not really, because my TV accepts the V-sync locked MVS picture just fine. And of course the unlocked as well, but that's unplayable.

[Seraphic]

RGB32E, have you tried using your XSYNC-1 with a PlayStation RGB scart cable? I also have an XSYNC-1 with a PlayStation 1 SCPH-1050 scart cable and noticed that 480i comes in as 672x504i. But when using normal YUV component cable, it comes in as 640x480i. Just wanted to know if you encountered the same thing?

I can check. Was the 480i (672x504i) from the dashboard, or during a particular game? Which playstation model (actual model number SCPH-*) were you using?

It's any 480i content (PS2 System Menu and Games). I do not have the model number in front of me, but it is a early generation phat model and the DVD driver is 2.20 I think (thus DVD movies are green over RGB Scart ). On a side note, how many pins should a PlayStation RGB scart cable have? The SCPH-1050 scart cable I have here has 14 pins. Is that normal?

[Fudoh]

I just downgraded to 1.03 to retest the V-Sync option and it's display in the full status window. Both on 1.03 and 1.04 all my sources strictly show 60.00Hz VLOCK, no matter what the input is (59.1, 59.8, 59.9, 60.05). I checked the output on my NECs info screen and in all cases the output was locked to the input (so output refresh = input refresh).

@RGB32E: what source do you have that actually shows it's correct output refresh rate on the full status screen ?

[Konsolkongen]

So my TV does for once actually accept a weird refresh?

EDIT: By why does the Edge say 60Hz then? It usually always get these things right. Unless of course the Mini automatically switched of V-sync when I hooked it up to the Edge?

[Fudoh]

I would say that the Mini manages to alter the timings in a way that your TV accepts even a MVS refresh rate. Maybe it increases the front and back porch of the timings in a way so the pixel clock stays closer to an actual 59.94Hz timing. This could also explain why your DVDO shows an incoming 60Hz although the Mini's output is locked to your RGB source.

Well on the more practical side, I have some dropouts with white flashes on my PCE. On the XRGB-3 I solved this by increasing the input termination. I will try increasing the output resistors on my PCE mod. Should I do this on all four lines, or just R/G/B or just sync ?

[Fudoh]

btw: the Mini's framerate conversion with deactivated vsync is really nothing to show off with. Compared to how smooth the XRGB-3 handles the 54Hz Seibu boards in B0, the Mini seems rather bad in this.

[Konsolkongen]

I would say that the Mini manages to alter the timings in a way that your TV accepts even a MVS refresh rate. Maybe it increases the front and back porch of the timings in a way so the pixel clock stays closer to an actual 59.94Hz timing. This could also explain why your DVDO shows an incoming 60Hz although the Mini's output is locked to your RGB source.

Well as long as Micomsoft doesn't change anything that will ruin this I'm extremly happy that I finally got a proper working MVS setup. Do you think it would work with something like a Blood Bros. PCB as well? I believe that's something like ~59.39Hz.

Well on the more practical side, I have some dropouts with white flashes on my PCE. On the XRGB-3 I solved this by increasing the input termination. I will try increasing the output resistors on my PCE mod. Should I do this on all four lines, or just R/G/B or just sync ?

I take it you're already using c.sync? Perhaps adding a LM1881 could help? It did with your MegaDrive.

[darthcloud]

Finally got mine today .

Really amazed so far. The always appearing jail bar of my RGB modded New Famicom on Black and blue background with my XRGB3 are now completely gone with the mini :O.

Can't see any bar at all . Wow


Only thing annoying so far is the blackout time when a game switch resolution. Specially for N64 since many of then often switch between 240p and 480i. Hope they can fix this somehow.

[Plasia]

I've got a round button japanese sega saturn with a raw sync rgb cable and I'm having all sorts of issues.

I have my xrgb-mini set to 1080p, that's the only change I've made. Happens with 480p and 720p too.

First it doesn't go fullscreen. It recognises the source as 720x240 but it leaves black bars top and bottom as well as on the sides.

I'm not sure what the term is, but there's horizontal alteration of the picture when there is, say, a character on screen. If there's a white letter on a black background then there is a horizontal white bar across the screen at the height of the letter. These bars go slightly further than the main picture also. Also, there is a similar effect above the actual picture in the black bar area, the black bar will be filled with a colour sometimes, depending on the main image.

I tried with composite and had none of these problems except for the not quite fullscreen, but of course, it's composite

Anyone got any ideas?

[RGB32E]

I swapped out the HD15 connector I was using for the XRGB-3 with a MDIN8... Too bad even HuCard audio is/has gone out! Too many surface mount caps to replace... (I don't need to hear how wonderful R systems might be... )

This is with the following mod:



The NJM route produces a better picture, but I don't have it in a NEC system right now, and my next amp should be even better! On top of that, I can't find my controller, so no screen shots from a CD game!

















No "drop outs" so far! Though, I did see the timing difference between power cycling the system. There are odd shaped jail bars of sorts... meh

[RGB32E]

I've got a round button japanese sega saturn with a raw sync rgb cable and I'm having all sorts of issues.
...
Anyone got any ideas?

Which cable are you using? Did you adjust the Visual Set menu (direct keys on the remote)?

[darthcloud]

Anyone tried Sonic 2 multiplayer on Genesis??

When the game go in split screen the HDMI dropout and then all I see is the following. The picture freeze at that screen.



Single player games, 32X and power base converter all work fine only sonic 2 multiplayer don't :S

[RGB32E]

Anyone tried Sonic 2 multiplayer on Genesis??

When the game go in split screen the HDMI dropout and then all I see is the following. The picture freeze at that screen.

Single player games, 32X and power base converter all work fine only sonic 2 multiplayer don't :S

Yup... I've encountered that exact issue! Hope Micomsoft fixes 480i issues with the RGB input! 480i from a PS2 works, just not from the Genesis! The XSYNC-1 doesn't fix this either!

[RGB32E]

Mostly tinkering for the time being...

[Fudoh]

@RGB32E:

The NJM route produces a better picture, but I don't have it in a NEC system right now, and my next amp should be even better! On top of that, I can't find my controller, so no screen shots from a CD game!

NJM did produce a WAY better picture on any other VP I've seen to date, but on the Mini it really doesn't make a difference. I would be surprised if you could actually find a difference. The DUO systems were always fine on the XRGB-3, so I guess you won't fine dropouts from these on the Mini.

And thanks for the PS2 boot menu screenshots! The input timing there is probably so close to real NTSC, that the output screen shows an actual NTSC refresh timing there instead of the generic 60.00 VLOCK.

[Konsolkongen]

I've got a round button japanese sega saturn with a raw sync rgb cable and I'm having all sorts of issues.

I have my xrgb-mini set to 1080p, that's the only change I've made. Happens with 480p and 720p too.

First it doesn't go fullscreen. It recognises the source as 720x240 but it leaves black bars top and bottom as well as on the sides.

That's normal, and it will do this on every other 240p consoles as well.

I'm not sure what the term is, but there's horizontal alteration of the picture when there is, say, a character on screen. If there's a white letter on a black background then there is a horizontal white bar across the screen at the height of the letter. These bars go slightly further than the main picture also. Also, there is a similar effect above the actual picture in the black bar area, the black bar will be filled with a colour sometimes, depending on the main image.

I tried with composite and had none of these problems except for the not quite fullscreen, but of course, it's composite

Anyone got any ideas?

Yes and I have the solution too It looks like this right:


Simply add a 220uF capacitor (+ side facing the console) to the Sync line and the problem is gone

[Fudoh]

That's normal, and it will do this on every other 240p consoles as well.

well, it actually depends on the source's number of active video lines. If you take a system with full 240p resolution (e.g. PS1), then you don't have any borders left on top and bottom. If you take a 224 line output your 1080p TV will show 36 black lines each on top and bottom.

[Konsolkongen]

Of course, but what I meant is, these black bars would still show on most games on retro consoles

[Plasia]

Ahh, that explains the black border top and bottom.

It does look like that yes, glad to know it's a relatively easy fix

[Konsolkongen]

Actually, when looking at Saturn schematics it looks like it needs both a 75ohm resistor and a 220uF capacitor on the sync line. Just thought you should know, in case you suddenly experience drop-outs on your Saturn. However it has been working fine so far with just the cap here I had the X-Men vs Street Fighter intro running for about an hour yesterday, and that has always been a guaranteed drop-out hell when using composite video as sync.